Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[Lilibet]

I have a few thoughts, but first I want to extend my deepest condolences and support to Cheryl's beloved family. I am so sorry for your tragic loss. It's beyond heartbreaking.

Here's my thinking at this point. Please forgive the long post. I haven't said much until now, so here goes:

My tendency in all cases is to stick with the simplest possible path to an outcome, leaving emotion out, rather than twist my thinking into a pretzel trying to make evidence support an outcome I prefer. Unfortunately, I don't see a simple outcome either way. It is either a complicated and skillful murder or a strangely complicated and bizarre suicide. Nothing makes sense, and I'm sure LE is as frustrated about this as we are.

I will say that human beings are complex and it's impossible to say with total certainty that someone would "never" commit suicide because they are happily married, hoping for grandchildren, just got a long-awaited kitty, etc. They would and they do. I would actually prefer to think that Cheryl chose to die in her own way, for her own reasons, than to think her life was cruelly taken from her by someone else for their twisted reasons.

Even though I prefer suicide as the MOD, the way she went about it leaves so many puzzles IMO. I have followed five threads that ended as suicides. Two women and one man used hanging. One man and one woman used river drowning. That woman also cut her wrists. All had a history of depression. One had a sudden-onset psychosis. But to choose to be face down in a culvert with a bag over her head? A couple of cut fingers. No drugs to ease the way. No known history of depression. Claustrophobia. Walking over a mile. I know it's not impossible, and we can't know her thinking, but I have trouble seeing Cheryl or anyone choosing this way to go. It seems complex and easily thwarted by someone observant.

I can't rule out murder yet, even though I hate the thought. Lack of evidence of a struggle or being bound could just mean she was swiftly overpowered, rendered unconscious (was chloroform ruled out?) and placed in a panel van on a mattress (no bruising) before she even was aware of what was happening. I think this would require her to be outside her car though. I can't explain the finger cuts, blood on the console, and razor blade (but they don't make sense with suicide either). The culvert and plastic bag (while still alive) could have been staged. The animal blood could be irrelevant. I may be overlooking something that rules out murder, so please remind me if that's the case.

Motive? Thrill kill. Someone trying to commit a perfect murder. Revenge against either Cheryl or her husband for some imagined offense. Or?

All working theories, subject to change and no solid opinions yet. Neither possibility is more or less likely than the other at this point IMO.

 

[kammiemc]

I have a few thoughts, but first I want to extend my deepest condolences and support to Cheryl's beloved family. I am so sorry for your tragic loss. It's beyond heartbreaking.

Here's my thinking at this point. Please forgive the long post. I haven't said much until now, so here goes:

My tendency in all cases is to stick with the simplest possible path to an outcome, leaving emotion out, rather than twist my thinking into a pretzel trying to make evidence support an outcome I prefer. Unfortunately, I don't see a simple outcome either way. It is either a complicated and skillful murder or a strangely complicated and bizarre suicide. Nothing makes sense, and I'm sure LE is as frustrated about this as we are.

I will say that human beings are complex and it's impossible to say with total certainty that someone would "never" commit suicide because they are happily married, hoping for grandchildren, just got a long-awaited kitty, etc. They would and they do. I would actually prefer to think that Cheryl chose to die in her own way, for her own reasons, than to think her life was cruelly taken from her by someone else for their twisted reasons.

Even though I prefer suicide as the MOD, the way she went about it leaves so many puzzles IMO. I have followed five threads that ended as suicides. Two women and one man used hanging. One man and one woman used river drowning. That woman also cut her wrists. All had a history of depression. One had a sudden-onset psychosis. But to choose to be face down in a culvert with a bag over her head? A couple of cut fingers. No drugs to ease the way. No known history of depression. Claustrophobia. Walking over a mile. I know it's not impossible, and we can't know her thinking, but I have trouble seeing Cheryl or anyone choosing this way to go. It seems complex and easily thwarted by someone observant.

I can't rule out murder yet, even though I hate the thought. Lack of evidence of a struggle or being bound could just mean she was swiftly overpowered, rendered unconscious (was chloroform ruled out?) and placed in a panel van on a mattress (no bruising) before she even was aware of what was happening. I think this would require her to be outside her car though. I can't explain the finger cuts, blood on the console, and razor blade (but they don't make sense with suicide either). The culvert and plastic bag (while still alive) could have been staged. The animal blood could be irrelevant. I may be overlooking something that rules out murder, so please remind me if that's the case.

Motive? Thrill kill. Someone trying to commit a perfect murder. Revenge against either Cheryl or her husband for some imagined offense. Or?

All working theories, subject to change and no solid opinions yet. Neither possibility is more or less likely than the other at this point IMO.

This all tracks with my thoughts as well, except the thrill kill. I think the little evidence we have leans toward a planned death, whether it was planned by Cheryl or someone who would benefit from her death. (Unless the thrill was to completely confound people, which I guess is possible!)


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[Starry Night]

I just think someone saw her and hurt her. Sorry. I do not believe she hurt herself. I mean that I hope not.

 

[ANZAC]

She was found in the bottom of a concrete culvert which on an average day might have 2 feet of water flowing through it.......if that. I don't think she was as much submerged as she was floating. Nobody searched that area for days and days.........why would they.....it was a mile and a half from where she was last known to be.

Bodies go through a process in water during decomp. Not floating, then floating, then sometimes not floating again.
If the water is cold enough, they can also go very deep and not surface even during the bloating/decomp. (happened in Lake WA)

 

[ANZAC]

and even the badge left at home

Has this been disclosed by the PD or family as located at home?
All I have seen the reports that the text message said she left it there.

 

[kammiemc]

Has this been disclosed by the PD or family as located at home?
All I have seen the reports that the text message said she left it there.

Stryker said in a post that the badge was found at her house in the area where she normally placed it, but that it had been covered by some clothes.


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[ANZAC]

- Can she walk for a mile and a half in a town she has lived for all her life and not be seen and recognized? Then perhaps more pre-planning necessary: A walking route selected? Checked for cameras?

Not unprecedented for someone to plan route to avoid security cameras on their way to suicide.

The only items that scream "pre planned" to me are:
- animal blood
- razor
- text to co-worker (maybe)

I posted in a prior threat about sudden onset dementia (I forget the medical term but it isn't Lewey Body). I've seen it first hand and seen a husband absolutely perplexed at his wife's irrational behavior. No prior medical/mental history, zero. It unfolded in a 24-48hr period if I recall, although she was missing for a lot of that so the onset may well have been < 24hrs since last seen with full faculties. It is rare but it does happen. Very scary stuff for all involved. I do not know if it can be detected post mortem (Lewey Body can).

If it was not homicide there are three different scenarios:

1) completely pre-planned, the text, the blood, the razor, the bag, the deliberate walk to the culvert
2) fear, despondency, irrational behavior. The razor was a failed attempt, then she stumbled to the nearest body of water she could find to try there (it isn't like she sat on the side of the road when she put the bag on her head.... the water is a BIG BIG factor
3) some kind of sudden onset dementia as above. In this case, I think you'd almost categorize the death as accidental or even natural causes (like someone who wanders off and succumbs to the elements - bag on her head to protect from rain, falls into culvert due to disorientation)

These are all my own theories/scenarios.

 

[ANZAC]

I posted in regards to satanic cults being prominent in the Pacific Northwest. It was just a statement to explore other theories. I didn't offend anyone, I just was talking about a certain region.

Didn't mean to single you out, just making the point that pressing one (more likely) theory of suicide is no worse than a wide range of less likely theories.

 

[kammiemc]

Bodies go through a process in water during decomp. Not floating, then floating, then sometimes not floating again.
If the water is cold enough, they can also go very deep and not surface even during the bloating/decomp. (happened in Lake WA)

ANZAC, I REALLY value your very obviously experienced and informed POV. I think your insight would be valued on other threads on WS as well. I hope you will consider becoming a verified expert! I believe you can still totally remain anonymous, but it would be pretty cool for you to be able to say what you are saying without having people challenge you because they don't get your experience and knowledge (and so guess that you have an agenda, etc.)
Anyway! Hope you will. And hope you stick around, regardless.


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[perfectingpink]

Not unprecedented for someone to plan route to avoid security cameras on their way to suicide.

The only items that scream "pre planned" to me are:
- animal blood
- razor
- text to co-worker (maybe)

I posted in a prior threat about sudden onset dementia (I forget the medical term but it isn't Lewey Body). I've seen it first hand and seen a husband absolutely perplexed at his wife's irrational behavior. No prior medical/mental history, zero. It unfolded in a 24-48hr period if I recall, although she was missing for a lot of that so the onset may well have been < 24hrs since last seen with full faculties. It is rare but it does happen. Very scary stuff for all involved. I do not know if it can be detected post mortem (Lewey Body can).

If it was not homicide there are three different scenarios:

1) completely pre-planned, the text, the blood, the razor, the bag, the deliberate walk to the culvert
2) fear, despondency, irrational behavior. The razor was a failed attempt, then she stumbled to the nearest body of water she could find to try there (it isn't like she sat on the side of the road when she put the bag on her head.... the water is a BIG BIG factor
3) some kind of sudden onset dementia as above. In this case, I think you'd almost categorize the death as accidental or even natural causes (like someone who wanders off and succumbs to the elements - bag on her head to protect from rain, falls into culvert due to disorientation)

These are all my own theories/scenarios.

There is a lot of good info on RPD here: (I do not believe RPD is likely related to Cheryl, but the info is still interesting.)

Rapidly Progressive Dementia

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2706263/

 

[PLT]

Plus she just got a new kitty!

I am wondering if she simply had a razor in her pocket because she had said to family the ParknRide area was a bit shady (something like that, probably not those exact words) and if she was use to walking on the trail why wouldn't she have it? IMO

When I first hear about the razor blade, I immediately thought "what kind"? Was it a loose one - in which case....that would be odd to carry and awkward to try to use in self defense versus pepper spray/stun gun, switchblade. Or was it contained in a plastic holder? I had a small razor blade that lookdc like a skinny box cutter. It attached to my keychain and I used to carry it to trade shows to open boxes.

I would think someone held her down in that water but still think it was a risky time of day to do so in that location. I don't give much weight to not finding footprints, car tracks, etc especially given the rain and that a week had passed. One poster said they were having heavy rains during that time - could that not alter the area and remove evidence or no? I think the animal blood may prove to be the "blend' of butcher bought food her friend mentioned (for the cat). She could have ran out to purchase it over the weekend and placed it on the floor board to avoid it on the seat. Maybe when she lifted it up to get out - she noticed it spilling on the console and put it back down and grabbed it from the passenger side where it got on the car door.

ETA: Steelman presented the same scenario above using ribs for a BBQ as an example before we knew about the cat food.

 

[Eileen730]

Im thinking she went in the culvert to get out of the rain.

 

[Eileen730]

Maybe the cat she adopted was o e she found injured and it was in her car.

 

[brandi]

I think the animal blood may prove to be the "blend' of butcher bought food her friend mentioned (for the cat). She could have ran out to purchase it over the weekend and placed it on the floor board to avoid it on the seat. Maybe when she lifted it up to get out - she noticed it spilling on the console and put it back down and grabbed it from the passenger side where it got on the car door.

ETA: Steelman presented the same scenario above using ribs for a BBQ as an example before we knew about the cat food.

The blood from the animal is on the floorboard. The blood on the seat console ect was proven to be hers, presumably from finger cuts.

 

[TTF14]

Were her keys found??

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[terracotta]

I wonder if the blood on the floor board was still damp when they found the car? I would think it is from some meat that she bought and the blood leaked. I hope they do test it to see what kind of animal that it is derived from.

Did they disclose when they believed she passed?

I have thought from the beginning that she didn't die that day. Or particularly that morning.

Maybe she walked around all day. Maybe she went somewhere by bus. Or she met up with some stranger. Maybe she was taken and was held at someone's home for days. I just have a very hard time believing this is suicide. But if it is, maybe she didn't go to the culvert that morning...it could have been that night, or days later.

Also, I used to have a razor blade in my glove box to scrape inspection stickers etc off my windshield. Obviously I would rarely use it, but I kept it there for the once a year I might need it. Like a storage spot for it.

 

[otto]

Im thinking she went in the culvert to get out of the rain.

Problem is: there is no reason for her to be at that location on a work day, so there's no reason for her to go into Lyon's Creek to get out of the rain.

 

[otto]

I wonder if the blood on the floor board was still damp when they found the car? I would think it is from some meat that she bought and the blood leaked. I hope they do test it to see what kind of animal that it is derived from.

Did they disclose when they believed she passed?

I have thought from the beginning that she didn't die that day. Or particularly that morning.

Maybe she walked around all day. Maybe she went somewhere by bus. Or she met up with some stranger. Maybe she was taken and was held at someone's home for days. I just have a very hard time believing this is suicide. But if it is, maybe she didn't go to the culvert that morning...it could have been that night, or days later.

Also, I used to have a razor blade in my glove box to scrape inspection stickers etc off my windshield. Obviously I would rarely use it, but I kept it there for the once a year I might need it. Like a storage spot for it.

"The red juice that often collects in a package of red meat is not blood, as many assume. Most of the blood is removed during processing and any that remains is usually contained within the muscle tissue.

The red liquid, instead, is a mixture of water and a protein called myoglobin, whose purpose is to help ship oxygen to muscle cells. Myoglobin is deeply pigmented, which is why the more myoglobin a meat contains, the darker (or redder) the meat will be."

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/10/25/myoglobin-red-meat.aspx

 

[Occam's Zebra]

If this was a robbery gone wrong, the folded up glasses and bag on the head could be ways that the assailant kept her from seeing his face. Take off my glasses and I can't see much. Put a bag over my head and forget it - now I don't know where you're taking me, and I definitely could not identify you.

That doesn't explain no signs of a struggle, unless Cheryl figured she'd wait, bide her time and appear 'obedient' until she figured out a way to escape.

 

[otto]

When I first hear about the razor blade, I immediately thought "what kind"? Was it a loose one - in which case....that would be odd to carry and awkward to try to use in self defense versus pepper spray/stun gun, switchblade. Or was it contained in a plastic holder? I had a small razor blade that lookdc like a skinny box cutter. It attached to my keychain and I used to carry it to trade shows to open boxes.

I would think someone held her down in that water but still think it was a risky time of day to do so in that location. I don't give much weight to not finding footprints, car tracks, etc especially given the rain and that a week had passed. One poster said they were having heavy rains during that time - could that not alter the area and remove evidence or no? I think the animal blood may prove to be the "blend' of butcher bought food her friend mentioned (for the cat). She could have ran out to purchase it over the weekend and placed it on the floor board to avoid it on the seat. Maybe when she lifted it up to get out - she noticed it spilling on the console and put it back down and grabbed it from the passenger side where it got on the car door.

ETA: Steelman presented the same scenario above using ribs for a BBQ as an example before we knew about the cat food.

There is no animal blood in meat that is sold for public consumption.