WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #1

[leftcoast]

OLd D.

The one guy who survived, was an amatuer skydiver, and the pilot had sped up the plane to 300 knots, and the guy still survived.

the dummy tried to hold onto the money with his hands, and the force ripped the bag from his grasp. lol.lol

The guy landed, had a change of clothes underneath, hitched a ride into town with the chief of police who didn't even suspect or recogize him

I think two towns in our great country had Barney Fife working at the same time. LOL.

left

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Notice how Ted keeps on pumping up Cooper

Ted quotes from our visits and tv. related to Cooper

'HE WOULD HAVE TO BE NUTS

"I WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM MAKING THAT JUMP

"I WOULDN'T DUPLICATE THAT JUMP FOR ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD"

"I'M NOT SMART ENOUGH"

"MCCOY WAS AN IDIOT, HE HAD IT COMING. HE WASN'T AS SMART AS COOPER (how does he know mccoy isn't Cooper)

"IF I WERE YOU, I WOULDN'T TURN COOPER IN, SOMEONE MAY HURT HIM'

"THE FBI SAID COOPER WAS A HERO"

"THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS SAID COOPER WAS GENTLE

"tHAT COOPER HAD EVERYTHING PLANNED TO A T"

"NO, COOPER IS GETTING UP THERE IN AGE, I'LL BET HE "CHUCKLES" EVERY NOW AND THEN ABOUT THE HEIST"
"COOPER DIDN'T HAVE AN ACCOMPLICE, THIS WAY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT SOMEONE RUNNING THEIR MOUTH WHEN THEIR DRUNK"

"COOPER RIPPED OPEN THE EXTRA CHUTE, TORE OUT THE CHUTE, AND PUT THE MONEY IN THE KNAPSACK, AND ATTACHED IT TO HIS BACK PARACHUTE"

"YA, THE POROSITY OF THE ONE CHUTE WAS 1,1, AND THE OTHER WAS 1.6. BOTH GREAT CHUTES. I WOULD HAVE USED THE SKYDIVERS MODEL, NOT THE EMERGENCY PILOT MODEL"

How does he know all of this

on and on, he keeps on patting himself on the back,

Plus, Ted said he doesn't fit the profile, PLease!!!!!!

I think what he meant to say was that he does not fit the description of Cooper, since he is a little short, and a little younger than described.

there is a reason Cooper remained seated all the time, at the back of the plane. IT was to conceal his height, weight, and age.

left

I bet he does....grrrrrrrrrrr :furious:

 

[Mountaineer]

Gee still waiting to see Inside Edtion story
And if I reacll I saw the news that night about DB cooper that night on the 10:00 news down here in Ca.

The IE story aired on Monday of this week. It was a great piece!

 

[Old Dominion]

I'm loving this one:

"They said would-juh like to be DB Cooper and we could sell more books?"

Just gotta love the retracted facial muscles at the end of that statement.

Classic indication that someone is lying.

OD

 

[leftcoast]

I'm loving this one:

"They said would-juh like to be DB Cooper and we could sell more books?"

Just gotta love the retracted facial muscles at the end of that statement.

Classic indication that someone is lying.

OD

Ya, after meeting TEd, I just assume he is lying, until I hear something that sounds true. It was this same type of arrogance which allowed him "not to sound like a hijacker"

Ya, me asking Ted to be Cooper would be redundant. (HE already had slipped and used the phrase "I" when referring to Cooper.)IT would be like asking Bush to be PResident. LOL

I got to tell ya, TEd is a good liar. He told me some flat out lies that I knew were not true, but, I left doubting myself. Until, of course, I checked my court records, arrest records, and confirmation with H-bach. Pathological.

Not only that, but, anyone knows what are the odds of finding the one suspect who just happened to call in to the FBI agent that night. 1 in 1,000,000. I'll bet ya, nobody else called in, saying "I dont' want ya to think I'm the hijacker".

Most people would have thought the guy would be caught. Why bother getting on the FBI radar?

Can't you picture a certain somebody on that plane.

Arguing with the pilot about the aftstairs.
Offering tips to the flight attendants
Offering them each a 2,000 pack to stay quiet.
Using their first names to intimidate them.

It's funny, every year, I get more and more confident.

As for H-bach, I really think he "got it" back in 2001.

I just don't think he is willing to admit it, to the public, or to himself.

It would take a HUGE man, to admit such a oversight, and I dont' see it happening.

In h-bach's defense, he could have easily lied to us, and told us that he checked out Ted's alibi, or that Ted had called in earlier, so, I do give H-bach credit for telling the truth about that, and meeting with people still trying to solve this case 30 years later.

Personally, I think H-bach pictured some old 47 year old guy, who smoked, and landed in the middle of nowhere. So, when Ted called, his first impression was that Cooper was still on that plane, how in the world could it be Ted. IT was actually a pretty good plan, but, after a day, it should have appeared to h-bach that Cooper had jumped well before Ted called, and had escaped.

It is called "tunnel vision" or "unwilling to change your mind", some people get an idea in their head, and regardless of the evidence, they will NEVER change their mind. I think that is what happened here, although I do think other scenario's are possible.

left

 

[leftcoast]

I'm loving this one:

"They said would-juh like to be DB Cooper and we could sell more books?"

Just gotta love the retracted facial muscles at the end of that statement.

Classic indication that someone is lying.

OD

OD

How can you tell a certain "suspect " is lying? He is talking.

Did you pick up any other lies with "facial expressions"?

I do know that certain people can tell when other's are lying, supposedly, we have certain "ticks", "look at to the right or left before answering", "hesitate", and other things.

I know the CIA, FBI, etc. are supposedly experts at detecting such "ticks".

A trained person can usually detect these things. However, I guess when someone calls on the phone, it is undetectable, especially if you already made up your mind.

good job O.D.

left

 

[j2mirish]

As for H-bach, I really think he "got it" back in 2001.

I just don't think he is willing to admit it, to the public, or to himself.

It would take a HUGE man, to admit such a oversight, and I dont' see it happening.

snipped by j2m

especially if he was involved --

 

[Old Dominion]

snipped by j2m

especially if he was involved --

Yup...I'm thinking a little stronger than "if". :behindbar

OD

 

[j2mirish]

snipped by j2m

especially if he was involved --

Yup...I'm thinking a little stronger than "if". :behindbar

OD

when he said he was coopers alibi, no matter what context he meant it to be....then with all the info lc has brought forward about their knowledge of each other........pretty much wraps it up for me--does anyone know what kind of lifestyle h has lived? i thought I remember someone here saying it was above his pension checks......

 

[Old Dominion]

when he said he was coopers alibi, no matter what context he meant it to be....then with all the info lc has brought forward about their knowledge of each other........pretty much wraps it up for me--does anyone know what kind of lifestyle h has lived? i thought I remember someone here saying it was above his pension checks......

J2,

I believe that was one of my posts about the pension checks. While I have no personal knowledge of H-bach's personal finances, I think it's safe to say that when you're the lead investigator of the only unsolved skyjacking in U.S. (world?) history and you write a book, you won't be living on food stamps.

There is so much more than just the "alibi" quote from H-bach that bothers me.

OD

 

[leftcoast]

when he said he was coopers alibi, no matter what context he meant it to be....then with all the info lc has brought forward about their knowledge of each other........pretty much wraps it up for me--does anyone know what kind of lifestyle h has lived? i thought I remember someone here saying it was above his pension checks......

J2

Don't know a whole lot about H-bach, but, I do know he has always had an upper middle class lifestlye,.

For example, back in the 60's, he had his own private plane. That is how he met Mayfield and how all of this started. H-bach was only one of two agents in the Portland FBI office who was a pilot. Even though he plane was older, even a 50 year old Cessna today, cost 70,000.

Airplanes are a "rich" man's toy. You have to be wealthy, or make at least 140,000 or so to afford a plane in today's market.

Most people, I think even admitted such, RENT planes. Not many people own them.

Plus, back in 1971, h-bach lived in a very nice area.

Supposedly, I have a friend who sqaure dances with h-bach, h-bach lives in a gorgeous, gorgeous home.

I know when we met him, he had a brand new outback.

anyway, my point is I beleive that H-bach comes from money, or has been around it.

However, I do your understand your point in this case. How many FBI agents can afford to own their own airplanes, even today? None.

They either come from money, their wives come from money, or other means.

left

 

[Old Dominion]

For example, back in the 60's, he had his own private plane. That is how he met Mayfield and how all of this started.

Left,

Any idea how much impact on ANYONE that saw either of your pieces this would have? If this information had been included in the segment I'd be willing to BET there would be NO doubters!


OD

 

[leftcoast]

Left,

Any idea how much impact on ANYONE that saw either of your pieces this would have? If this information had been included in the segment I'd be willing to BET there would be NO doubters!


OD

I agree. KOIN and IE should have both include that TEd and H-bach knew each other before the heist. They both dropped the ball.

As a matter of fact, the IE producer mentioned to me that he "could tell that Ted and H-bach were bitter enemies before the heist"

Don't forget, this case is full of tons of information. Both KOIN and IE put together the pieces in a limited amount of time.

IE did all the interviews, everything, in one day. And edited it another.


that was his take, at least. So, IE was well aware of the relationship.

left

 

[Old Dominion]

As a matter of fact, the IE producer mentioned to me that he "could tell that Ted and H-bach were bitter enemies before the heist"

LC,

Then there would have been absolutely no reason for Ralph not to have
fully checked out a convicted armed robber's (or anyone's) alibi and fully questioned him. He did neither. He should also have at least personally interviewed the stewardesses and showed them some photos. Neither were done.

And you're saying this wasn't solved because he was conned?

OD

 

[leftcoast]

LC,

Then there would have been absolutely no reason for Ralph not to have
fully checked out a convicted armed robber's (or anyone's) alibi and fully questioned him. He did neither. He should also have at least personally interviewed the stewardesses and showed them some photos. Neither were done.

And you're saying this wasn't solved because he was conned?

OD

Yes, at this moment, that is all i am prepared to conclude. If I see something else, I am certainly open to any physical, circumstantial, etc evidence which proves otherwise.

I agree that h-bach should have checked out his alibi, especially given his was a known armed robber.

At the same time, this was the first time this type of crime had been committed. It requires one to think, not react. There was not protocol, no SOP's for hijacking with a parachute. So, h-bach was on his own, and in my mind possibly overmatched by a very, very intelligent man who had inside knowledge. Plus, h-bach has no skydiving experience, so he was not qualified to make the judgement that the hijacker would have died. How he came up with this is beyond me.

I'm saying that from what I have learned over the past 7 years, that I don't have any evidence to suggest H-bach did anything illegal.

There is a big difference between being conned, being incompetent, having tunnel vision and being a crook. I'm not prepared to make that leap and ruin a man's reputation. IF I had one solid thread of evidence, one inclination, I would share it. Trust me.

I know some people think it is more than incompetence. Trust me, I have interviewed everyone, and have thought about this case for years, and have thought about that scenario which you are suggesting.

Yes, I do think it is possible.

At the same time, I am not going to suggest that someone is possibly involved, and potentially ruin their reputation unless I have some evidence. To date, I don't have any evidence whatsoever.

If I did, I would be the first one to share it. I"m obviously not afraid or intimindated by anyone. I call it like I see it.

Let's do this.

OD, list all the reason why you think H-bach may be involved.

I will list the reasons why I think it is unlikely.

this way, people can read the thread, and make up their own mind.

sound like a plan. Remember, it took me forever, to convince the people on this thread, that I had Cooper, and that he was never looked at by the FBI. Some called me a liar, and worse things. Now, that I have proven everything, I am willing to debate this topic.

Like I have said, I have NOT made up my mind totally. I just don't see it as a slam dunk case, like others.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Some else , Jrmish, Scandi, etc. Mystic, Niner, AS,

What are your thoughts?

left

 

[Azlaw]

I've been following this thread and I am impressed by your work on this suspect. You have me close to convinced.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, can you give me the top reasons why Mayfield might not be Cooper?

Also, why have you ruled out the Duane Weber suspect?

You have mentioned that Mayfield knows some specifications of the chutes delivered to Cooper that only Cooper and the rigger would know. Have you verified this info with the rigger? I'm wondering how you know that this info is correct and Mayfield is not just making something up to sound like he has inside knowledge.

Again, very impressive work and I can't wait to see where this goes.

 

[leftcoast]

I've been following this thread and I am impressed by your work on this suspect. You have me close to convinced.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, can you give me the top reasons why Mayfield might not be Cooper?

Also, why have you ruled out the Duane Weber suspect?

You have mentioned that Mayfield knows some specifications of the chutes delivered to Cooper that only Cooper and the rigger would know. Have you verified this info with the rigger? I'm wondering how you know that this info is correct and Mayfield is not just making something up to sound like he has inside knowledge.

Again, very impressive work and I can't wait to see where this goes.

Hey, welcome, very good questions

Reasons why Mayfield may not be Cooper

Mayfield is a little shorter than the estimate given by flight attendants. He is about 5"8, Cooper was said to be about 5"10-6ft

According to H-bach, Mayfield didnt' smoke.

Some have said, it would be difficult to get to a phone in two hours after jumping from a plane. (mayfield was a world champ)

I have not verified that the porosity levels are accurate for several reasons. EC is an acquaintance of Ted, and I don't want to tip him off. Also, EC is kind of a nervous fellow, and I don't want to keep spooking him by calling. EC is still worried the fBI will try to pin this on him.

You are right, the porosity levels may be incorrect. However, Ted could purposely give us false info. to steer us away from him.

As for Duane Weber: I have not ruled out anyone. In my mind, only people who are in prison should be eliminated, until the case is solved. To me, that is the only "perfect alibi". I just think Weber is extremely, extremely, unlikely, for the following reasons:

Weber lived in Atlanta at the time
No proof he has ever been skydiving.
No proof he has ever been a pilot
Nobody can even place him in Oregon on 11/24/71
Florence Schafffner said it wasn't him
Weber was a forger, not an aggressive criminal. Usually criminals stick to their m.o's.
Weber said he buried 175,000 of the money in a bucket and couldnt' find it. Well, the money came in packets of 2,000.
Webers's confession came when he was dying in the hospital of kidney failure, and on lots of medication
Weber is one of at least one hundred people who have confessed to this crime.
So, he split up a packet in order to bury it.
None of the claims about weber have ever been substantiated
Cooper was described as compact, stocky, who was balding. Weber was thin, and had a full head of hair.

OD knows a lot more about Weber and he can add

good questions

left

 

[Old Dominion]

Yes, at this moment, that is all i am prepared to conclude. If I see something else, I am certainly open to any physical, circumstantial, etc evidence which proves otherwise.

I agree that h-bach should have checked out his alibi, especially given his was a known armed robber.

At the same time, this was the first time this type of crime had been committed. It requires one to think, not react. There was not protocol, no SOP's for hijacking with a parachute. So, h-bach was on his own, and in my mind possibly overmatched by a very, very intelligent man who had inside knowledge. Plus, h-bach has no skydiving experience, so he was not qualified to make the judgement that the hijacker would have died. How he came up with this is beyond me.

I'm saying that from what I have learned over the past 7 years, that I don't have any evidence to suggest H-bach did anything illegal.

There is a big difference between being conned, being incompetent, having tunnel vision and being a crook. I'm not prepared to make that leap and ruin a man's reputation. IF I had one solid thread of evidence, one inclination, I would share it. Trust me.

I know some people think it is more than incompetence. Trust me, I have interviewed everyone, and have thought about this case for years, and have thought about that scenario which you are suggesting.

Yes, I do think it is possible.

At the same time, I am not going to suggest that someone is possibly involved, and potentially ruin their reputation unless I have some evidence. To date, I don't have any evidence whatsoever.

If I did, I would be the first one to share it. I"m obviously not afraid or intimindated by anyone. I call it like I see it.

Let's do this.

OD, list all the reason why you think H-bach may be involved.

I will list the reasons why I think it is unlikely.

this way, people can read the thread, and make up their own mind.

sound like a plan. Remember, it took me forever, to convince the people on this thread, that I had Cooper, and that he was never looked at by the FBI. Some called me a liar, and worse things. Now, that I have proven everything, I am willing to debate this topic.

Like I have said, I have NOT made up my mind totally. I just don't see it as a slam dunk case, like others.

left

Ok sounds like a plan, we'll do it when I have more time. But to make my point I'm tempted to ask anyone what H-back DID do in the 10 years he was on this case and I think we'll be dealing with a very short or non-existent list.

You convinced me long before this thread that you probably had Cooper an that the FBI never looked at him, but we differ on why.

OD

 

[j2mirish]

Yes, at this moment, that is all i am prepared to conclude. If I see something else, I am certainly open to any physical, circumstantial, etc evidence which proves otherwise.

I agree that h-bach should have checked out his alibi, especially given his was a known armed robber.

At the same time, this was the first time this type of crime had been committed. It requires one to think, not react. There was not protocol, no SOP's for hijacking with a parachute. So, h-bach was on his own, and in my mind possibly overmatched by a very, very intelligent man who had inside knowledge. Plus, h-bach has no skydiving experience, so he was not qualified to make the judgement that the hijacker would have died. How he came up with this is beyond me.

I'm saying that from what I have learned over the past 7 years, that I don't have any evidence to suggest H-bach did anything illegal.

There is a big difference between being conned, being incompetent, having tunnel vision and being a crook. I'm not prepared to make that leap and ruin a man's reputation. IF I had one solid thread of evidence, one inclination, I would share it. Trust me.

I know some people think it is more than incompetence. Trust me, I have interviewed everyone, and have thought about this case for years, and have thought about that scenario which you are suggesting.

Yes, I do think it is possible.

At the same time, I am not going to suggest that someone is possibly involved, and potentially ruin their reputation unless I have some evidence. To date, I don't have any evidence whatsoever.

If I did, I would be the first one to share it. I"m obviously not afraid or intimindated by anyone. I call it like I see it.

Let's do this.

OD, list all the reason why you think H-bach may be involved.

I will list the reasons why I think it is unlikely.

this way, people can read the thread, and make up their own mind.

sound like a plan. Remember, it took me forever, to convince the people on this thread, that I had Cooper, and that he was never looked at by the FBI. Some called me a liar, and worse things. Now, that I have proven everything, I am willing to debate this topic.

Like I have said, I have NOT made up my mind totally. I just don't see it as a slam dunk case, like others.

left

I think it would be very pathetic that a loser like cooper could CON an FBI big shot.........maybe if there had been more investigating going on, but there doesnt seem to have been enough digging, to say he was CONNED..