WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #1

[leftcoast]

Scandi, I have now got my DH interested which is hard to do!!!!
Leftcoast, I don't have all the information about how the heist was done, but I recall that the Flight attendant was handed a note by Cooper. Was he wearing gloves? What happened to the note? Surely since he had a criminal history Mayfield's prints if not DNA could be matched? I'm just throwing this out if it was ever done? I don't have a big ego so if its stupid , just say so!:crazy:

Hey Schmerty:

Glad your DH is interested.

According to records, Cooper was NOT wearing gloves.

However, Cooper's asked and received his hijack note back from the flight attendant (mc coy didn't and was popped )

Also, it is possible Cooper left a print behind, but, nobody knows for certain.

Back in 1971, fingerprints were done manually, so, the FBI would have had to suspect Mayfield, pulled his prints, and matched them manually against the one's found on the plane. Hence, if a print was found, he could have been arrested immediately. But, a negative on the print could simply mean Cooper didn't leave a print behind.

good question

BTW McCoy did wear gloves, but the dummy read magazines first, then put on his gloves, and the FBI lifted one of his prints from the magazine which helped in his prosecution (not to mention they found the ransom money, his grenade, etc. buried in his basement)

left

 

[leftcoast]

Lorann

Thanks for looking up the address. I'll talk to my partner and see what he wants to do. It's hard to get people interested in a case when a FBI agent misrepresents the facts of the case to save his reputation.

left

 

[Niner]

I mailed your tape today. you should get it Tuesday.

left

:woohoo: Thanks! I'll keep an eye out for it!

 

[Niner]

I know I'm biased, but, he sure does seem to enjoy talking about that night. AS if, it was a highlite of his life. sticking it to the FAA, FBI, and those who he think wronged him.
Don't forget, in Seattle, on the ground, Cooper states "I'll show them", and threatens to blow up the plane. Who is them? FAA, FBI. I think so.

I believe you are right on that Leftcoast! and he did it for 36 years!! :slap:

now.. I'll go read the last page to catch up with the latest...

Unfortunately the show was NOT on Inside Edition in my area friday night... wonder what happened? Maybe Monday, Leftcoast? let me go and read and see if I answer my own question!

 

[leftcoast]

The Cooper stuff was not on Inside Edition friday night.

IE has been running the PHiL Spector stuff all the time.

I don't know if it will be on Monday or whatever.

IE doesn't call and say, hey, it will on tonight.

Supposedly, they liked the piece, and it was filmed on Wednesday.

If I hear anything, I'll let ya know.

left

 

[Niner]

well, I see you mentioned the weekend edition for Inside Edition, but that comes on at 2:05am this morning... to late for this old lady!! LOL! :blushing:

I also wanted to welcome some new posters I see here! Macksol, Old Dominion, Kgram, and Mysticchic!! :dance: just curious, did you sign on from reading THIS thread?? :waitasec:

Oh LC - I was wondering if Florence the flight attendant has "seen" a picture of your Ted? can she identify him as Cooper?? Maybe you should send her copies of your tapes... and have her look at them??!! ya never know... she MIGHT just identify him!!

 

[Niner]

The Cooper stuff was not on Inside Edition friday night.

IE has been running the PHiL Spector stuff all the time.

I don't know if it will be on Monday or whatever.

IE doesn't call and say, hey, it will on tonight.

Supposedly, they liked the piece, and it was filmed on Wednesday.

If I hear anything, I'll let ya know.

left

cool, LC! I'll keep checking in here on Monday and 'see' if anything is up! Thanks for ALL you've done on this! I BELIEVE you HAVE D.B. Cooper!!

 

[Old Dominion]

Lorann

Thanks for looking up the address. I'll talk to my partner and see what he wants to do. It's hard to get people interested in a case when a FBI agent misrepresents the facts of the case to save his reputation.

left

I was shocked to see H-back on the KOIN segment pegging Cooper at anywhere between 45-55 years old. Where does he get this? Everything I've come across always has a max age of roughly 44. I've even seen late 30's to early 40's.

This makes me wonder about the swarthy description. LC is that an FBI description or right out of the mouth of Flo or Tina or the Ticket person? I've got an interesting theory brewing on that one.

Then there's the question of the widely circulated composites. Much different than the U.M. sketch with Flo's help in the late 80's.

This just CAN'T be incompetence.


Dominion

 

[scandi]

Scandi, that depends on what anyone's definition of "solved" is. You can get a jury to convict someone, but to many who don't agree the case is unsolved.

WRT Cooper, I think that Left has got him. I know what a meticulous job of investigation he has done some 30 years after the fact. I know this because I have put LCoast through the ringer of litmus a year ago when the name hadn't even been released. I did this because I wanted to test every aspect of the suspect against what I knew about Cooper and the heist. I was not looking to discredit his suspect but rather to be sure in my own mind that there was not something overlooked. It stands.

Now after having watched the videos of Mayfield and seeing his personality and mannerisms I'm even more convinced. He is not perfect and even slipped and used "I" to refer to Cooper in one of L.C.'s interviews.

So to answer your question, where DO we go from here? That really is up to LC and how he and his partner handle this. I personally don't think that even more exposure would hurt. I was disappointed that IE didn't air his segment. I had hoped that because they are a para-tabloid show they would be much less law suit weary than the Koin or any other local affiliate. This would allow them to air more of the facts and not try to play "safe". I'm confident it will be aired when they're ready unless LC has any other info on this.

As for the FBI, I'm not sure what to say. Would they re-open the case? One can only hope, since they have cases (or files I should say) on a lot of people they want to keep an eye on that will never be indicted. The problem is that after 30 years much of the hard-cold evidence has vaporized. I've said it before, but the real investigation for the FBI could be the Himmelsbach investigation. It is just unimaginable that any investigator, AN FBI agent no less, could be that incompetent. I believe that something is going on here.

Dominion

Hi Dominion, After reading your few posts on the subject I do sit straight up in my chair. lol Evidently you have a background that strengthens your investigative skills. I also think you have had this case in your head for many years and can imagine how fascinated you were to learn of our local investigators taking the case to task. Thanks for your posts as I find them valuable in looking at everything as a whole. When you say "It stands" that says mountains.

Your idea that the FBI investigation could be of Himmelsbach sounds right on point. If he had not been the lead investigator in the case it seems there could have been an arrest from what I have learned. Arrogance, not willing to take another look at a previous decision seems to mark the way he worked. I can't imagine anything conspirational having gone on, but if one takes a clear look at the pros and cons of this, it would be easy to suspect he was in on it. I just hate to think so.

Welcome to Websleuths. BTW, I have met some real 'movers and shakers' here on this thread, unexpectedly and with great delight. I attribute that to the quality and sincerity of this investigation by Left and Matt.

Scandi

 

[leftcoast]

I was shocked to see H-back on the KOIN segment pegging Cooper at anywhere between 45-55 years old. Where does he get this? Everything I've come across always has a max age of roughly 44. I've even seen late 30's to early 40's.

This makes me wonder about the swarthy description. LC is that an FBI description or right out of the mouth of Flo or Tina or the Ticket person? I've got an interesting theory brewing on that one.

Then there's the question of the widely circulated composites. Much different than the U.M. sketch with Flo's help in the late 80's.

This just CAN'T be incompetence.


Dominion

Dominion

Don't know where the "swarthy" started. It is all over H-bach's book. Swarthy is even on the FBI website. All it means is dark skin, could be from make-up, a tan from working outside, etc.

What's your theory on the "swarthy"?

Flo never mentioned Swarthy to me. All she said was about 40.

Not to mention that H-bach calls him compact, stocky. Is it possible to be "compact" and be 6 feet tall? Compact means to put a lot in a small spot, ie compact car.

I think Cooper was wearing make-up, a wig, and the sunglasses. Put on the dark suit, long raincoat to conceal the legs, and shoes with heels for elevation (all men's dress shoes have heels, esp. in the 70's)

However, H-bach knows it all. that is why he didn't solve the case.

What is your theory? Are you hinting H-bach turned his shoulder on a suspect on purpose? You aren't suggesting what I think, are you?

left

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Well, left, perhaps after how things turned out within the current interview of H-bach, combined with his previous behaviors related to the case, we all ought to at least pull our heads out of the sand and take an objective look at the possibility that the agent WAS somehow involved in "protecting" the suspected culprit.

I feel this is unlikely, BUT - in New York City it recently turned out that two retired police dept. detectives were hit men for the mafia and murdered 8 or so people over the course of several years!

Just for fun, if the lead FBI agent being protective of the culprit was factored into the set of known facts, how would that scenario play out? Would all facts still fit? Just curious!

Plus: What would the FBI agent's motive have been THEN?

Gosh, I sure hope SOMEONE at that Portland FBI office is looking into this case as we speak!

 

[Old Dominion]

Hi Dominion, After reading your few posts on the subject I do sit straight up in my chair. lol Evidently you have a background that strengthens your investigative skills. I also think you have had this case in your head for many years and can imagine how fascinated you were to learn of our local investigators taking the case to task. Thanks for your posts as I find them valuable in looking at everything as a whole. When you say "It stands" that says mountains.

Your idea that the FBI investigation could be of Himmelsbach sounds right on point. If he had not been the lead investigator in the case it seems there could have been an arrest from what I have learned. Arrogance, not willing to take another look at a previous decision seems to mark the way he worked. I can't imagine anything conspirational having gone on, but if one takes a clear look at the pros and cons of this, it would be easy to suspect he was in on it. I just hate to think so.

Welcome to Websleuths. BTW, I have met some real 'movers and shakers' here on this thread, unexpectedly and with great delight. I attribute that to the quality and sincerity of this investigation by Left and Matt.

Scandi

Thanks Scandi. There sure is a lot going on here. Sure is fascinating that what is generally considered one of the 20th century's greatest mysteries comes down to the extremely poor performance of the FBI and one individual in particular. I mention the FBI and not just H-bach because among other things he had superiors who oversaw his work and left him on the case chewing peanuts for 10 years.

What is most interesting about the usual suspects (Weber, McCoy, List etc) is that the more you know about this case the more ridiculous the usuals look, and the less you know, the better they look. Generally speaking, the Press/Media falls into the latter category. It is for this reason that the press is less likely to embrace LC's suspect. I was very pleased when I found out that KOIN had done a 3 part series that actually exposed LC's suspect.

What was interesting about the 3rd and final piece is in the end when Kelley Day asks Jeff Gianola "do you think he did it?" and he says emphatically "No!". Did anyone look closely at Gianola and his eyes? I have no doubt that his producer was loud and clear in his ear piece telling him exactly what to say. Watch it again!

Dominion

 

[leftcoast]

Well, left, perhaps after how things turned out within the current interview of H-bach, combined with his previous behaviors related to the case, we all ought to at least pull our heads out of the sand and take an objective look at the possibility that the agent WAS somehow involved in "protecting" the suspected culprit.

I feel this is unlikely, BUT - in New York City it recently turned out that two retired police dept. detectives were hit men for the mafia and murdered 8 or so people over the course of several years!

Just for fun, if the lead FBI agent being protective of the culprit was factored into the set of known facts, how would that scenario play out? Would all facts still fit? Just curious!

Plus: What would the FBI agent's motive have been THEN?

Gosh, I sure hope SOMEONE at that Portland FBI office is looking into this case as we speak!

Me too!!!!!!!

I don't know for certain. I am certainly opened minded, but my gut tells me that H-bach was just conned.

I'll tell you though. I wouldn't rule out anything in this case. I just can't imagine how he could be overlooked.

Who knows, though. You bring up a good point about the NY cops.

One thing I do know. H-bach spent time out of his retirement to meet us for lunch to discuss the case. I don't get why he would do such a thing, if he was involved or looked the other way.

I just think H-bach was conned. But, I honestly am open to any and all scenario's.

There are other motives, such as money, someone could have dirt on someone, someone could be afraid, etc.

I think the investigation was poorly done. Even our suspect said the fBI did a horrible job. I have no idea how he knows this. I could take a guess.

left

 

[scandi]

It was Kelly Day that caught my eye and raised my eyebrow. She said once, naw, she didn't think he was the right one, and then she almost repeated herself again right away looking square into the camera, with the "No, I don't think . . ." I don't have her exact words here, but it was like she was being prompted.

 

[leftcoast]

Thanks Scandi. There sure is a lot going on here. Sure is fascinating that what is generally considered one of the 20th century's greatest mysteries comes down to the extremely poor performance of the FBI and one individual in particular. I mention the FBI and not just H-bach because among other things he had superiors who oversaw his work and left him on the case chewing peanuts for 10 years.

What is most interesting about the usual suspects (Weber, McCoy, List etc) is that the more you know about this case the more ridiculous the usuals look, and the less you know, the better they look. Generally speaking, the Press/Media falls into the latter category. It is for this reason that the press is less likely to embrace LC's suspect. I was very pleased when I found out that KOIN had done a 3 part series that actually exposed LC's suspect.

What was interesting about the 3rd and final piece is in the end when Kelley Day asks Jeff Gianola "do you think he did it?" and he says emphatically "No!". Did anyone look closely at Gianola and his eyes? I have no doubt that his producer was loud and clear in his ear piece telling him exactly what to say. Watch it again!

Dominion

Good catch Dominion, I missed that.

No, I have no doubt that KOIN's final segment was dictated by their attornies.

Back in November, all Donahue would talk about is he "didn't want our suspect to own KOIN".

I told him, how can you get sued for telling the truth?

anyway, good pickup. KOIN definitely used us for sweeps week, and then acted as if there was no way. then why run a three part series during sweeps? Talk about zero credibility.

KOIN burned this bridge, I'll tell ya that.

left

 

[Old Dominion]

Dominion

Don't know where the "swarthy" started. It is all over H-bach's book. Swarthy is even on the FBI website. All it means is dark skin, could be from make-up, a tan from working outside, etc.

What's your theory on the "swarthy"?

Flo never mentioned Swarthy to me. All she said was about 40.

This is what I'd really like to know. What would Tina and Flo remember about that in particular. I suppose he could have been wearing makeup but some have gone as far as describing Cooper as maybe even hispanic.

Not to mention that H-bach calls him compact, stocky. Is it possible to be "compact" and be 6 feet tall? Compact means to put a lot in a small spot, ie compact car.

I think Cooper was wearing make-up, a wig, and the sunglasses. Put on the dark suit, long raincoat to conceal the legs, and shoes with heels for elevation (all men's dress shoes have heels, esp. in the 70's)

However, H-bach knows it all. that is why he didn't solve the case.

What is your theory? Are you hinting H-bach turned his shoulder on a suspect on purpose? You aren't suggesting what I think, are you?

left

All I know is that H-back never even interviewed the Flight attendants. I guess when you know it all something like that just isn't necessary. I just don't know what I think at this point but whatever it is it isn't good.

Old D

 

[leftcoast]

This is what I'd really like to know. What would Tina and Flo remember about that in particular. I suppose he could have been wearing makeup but some have gone as far as describing Cooper as maybe even hispanic.



All I know is that H-back never even interviewed the Flight attendants. I guess when you know it all something like that just isn't necessary. I just don't know what I think at this point but whatever it is it isn't good.

Old D

Another thing. When somebody has their hair dyed jet black (or a wig), has dark skin (from makeup or sun), and is wearing dark glasses, one could say, he is swarthy, maybe hispanic.

However, the witnesses did say Cooper "had no accent". Doesnt' sound hispanic to me.

in the northwest, it is common for people to say "we don't have a regional accent", unlike New Yorkers, the south, Chicago, etc.

What exactly are you thinking about this case Dominion?

Are you thinking false information was released to the public?

or that the sketches were altered?

left

PS I do know he likes to dress up and skydive. HEll, for years he was the "skydiving easter bunny and the skydiving Santa Claus" for the kids.

 

[leftcoast]

It was Kelly Day that caught my eye and raised my eyebrow. She said once, naw, she didn't think he was the right one, and then she almost repeated herself again right away looking square into the camera, with the "No, I don't think . . ." I don't have her exact words here, but it was like she was being prompted.

or on the "teleprompter"


I'm sure good old Kelly's attorney was in her earpiece.

Ya know what, I don't blame her.

but, why ask such a stupid question, unless it was scripted by KOIN for legal purposes.

left

 

[leftcoast]

OD

Funny thing. the first sketches of Cooper look nothing like each other.

the "bing Crosby" sketch shows a "white" guy with a receeding hairline, long nose, and thin.

the other sketch, shows a guy with "jet black" hair, sunglasses, and kind of looks like Casey Kasem. Which, points toward a wig.

anyway, the point is, neither sketch resembles a "swarthy person". Do you agree?

left

 

[Old Dominion]

Ya know what, I don't blame her.

but, why ask such a stupid question, unless it was scripted by KOIN for legal purposes.

left

Left
I don't think you should worry much about that final segment. What was important is that you got exposure and H-bach looked pretty damn BAD to put it lightly. Ted didn't exactly look like an Angel either at least not in the first 2 segs. It did appear they tried to revive him in the 3rd with that Kiawanis and PTA membership BS. There was a good amount of information put forth by what is probably a pretty good station. This will get you more exposure.

Besides, Day and Gianola aren't exactly investigative reporters they're TV personalities. It is common practice to be neutral and the usual answer to questions like that regardless of what a media personality thinks is "I don't know". No doubt that was a legal move.

Dominion