WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #2

[not_my_kids]

Enter
"Ron Twersky, FBI assistant special agent in charge. " AKA: Supercop.

 

[Kat]

One note: something I have learned from doing work on the missing/support threads.

When you are looking at information released to the media by LE, always make sure to go with the latest version. Even if it's only a matter of hours between article publication or updates to the article.

I always try to use the statements by LE that are included in quotations marks as much as possible.

Yes they can be sloppy when they write up the articles! But, with every case we have evolving information being distributed. That means what we read about "XYZ" on the first day of the case might not be accurate on the third day.

Just my thoughts

 

[Kat]

I was very pleased to hear Lindsey's mother offer to take a LDT. It made me think of M. Klaas and other parents that have said "do whatever you need to do, rip my life apart if need be...but help find my baby".

 

[JenniferO]

Thank you. I am literally on the other side of the country, so I don't know for sure how things work elsewhere. I am just used to the State Police being called in for better resources. I appreciate the input.

The state police had their plane out there yesterday. It was discussed in this video
http://www.nwcn.com/video/index.html?nvid=376164&shu=1 (about a minute and 8 seconds into it). That's the only time I've heard about the State Patrol being involved.

 

[eyes4crime]

Seems the police are now searching landfills...wondering why no cadaver dogs helping.

http://www.kirotv.com/video/19921709/index.html

Seems to me that even if the two girls were trying out both parents to see who could have a sleep over - doesn't make much difference in the scheme of things. Even figuring out two pathways Lindsey may have taken to get home gives us more info and more possibilities to figure things out....just takes longer and is mind crazy.

Where is this child? Where would some sicko put a body in such a small town? My heart goes out to all family and her little friends

 

[Kat]

Hello to all new posters here at WebSleuths. :seeya:

Here is a link to help you get aquainted with this board.

The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Gailrene~

It is understandable why people can't all go out to search. Some people probably have issues with health as well as the other reasons you have stated. The heat is always an issue for searchers for their own safety.

I appreciate the locals who come online and answer questions which are only available through that connection. It is difficult for people who are across the country and have not been in the area. The maps are helpful, but not accurate much of the time since they are usually years behind on their mapping.

Thanks for the great photos, JVK~ Welcome to WS, too!

The photo of the church stopped me dead in my tracks tho. I guess it is probably a flashback reaction from the Sandra Cantu case. However, did Lindsey attend a church?

 

[ThoughtElf]

This struck me as odd. Didn't it get reported that she wanted to spend the night at her friends house and that the friend's mother (KK?) said no? If so, wouldn't you think she would have overnight things, etc with her?

IIRC, I read that she was hoping to have K stay over at her house? When K's mom said, "No," that was when she left for home.

I'll try to find that link again.

ETA: added article link & quotes:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7966924&page=1


Baum said she last saw her daughter when Lindsey, along with her 12-year-old brother, Josh, headed out to Lindsey's friend's house in hopes she could get permission to spend the night at the Baum's house.



Baum said her children began squabbling over the use of Josh's bike on the way there and were stopped by a family friend who sent Josh home to end the argument. Lindsey continued on to her friend's house. When Lindsey's friend found out she couldn't stay the night, Lindsey headed for home around 9:30 p.m.

 

[Kat]

Most of us that live here in McCleary (close to the case) have jobs and families of our own. We have other responsibilities and commitments that keep us from being able to help as much as we would like.
It is close-minded and judgemental to make such statements as your opening sentence in this post. I don't know about the other locals who have posted, but I'm sure that like myself, they want to help as much as they can by providing details about the area and answering questions about bus lines and the layout of the streets etc....things that only locals would know.
Are we seriously degraded to the point that all we can do is look at everyone else and judge what they should or shouldn't be doing or saying or picking apart every facial expression or missplaced word? This tragedy is difficult enough for everyone without us tearing each other apart like a modern day witch hunt.

Bolded by me.

That's not nice.


Good night everyone take care!

 

[scandi]

scandi Finally found the video that TakeNote was referring to about the gentleman's property being searched 6x's. I agree that something must have kept them going back to search his there by the crek so many times!

VIDEO: Search ramps up for McCleary girl
http://www.nwcn.com/video/index.html?nvid=376164&shu=1

:angel:

Thanks for that video Angel Who Cares, I think they gave us a good persective of Jim's property with the big field, and it probably drops down to the creek back by those trees. He evidently has an acreage which is more involved to search. Jim seems a dear old gent so I doubt it is because of him they are there. Except maybe that the neighborhood kids like him and he lets them play in his fields.

If she is gone I bet she'll eventually be found off one of those logging roads in the woods that surround McCleary.

At the end of your video I was glad to see the station post these statistics to remind us how RARE stranger abductions are:

MISSING CHILDREN

797,500 - REPORTED EVERY YEAR

262,100 - FAMILY AND NON-FAMILY {friends}

115,000 - STRANGER KIDNAPPINGS

That is only 14.42% of all children abducted or 14 for every 100 taken.

So the law of averages says she was either taken by family or friend {32,8 % +} or other, like running away {52.8 % +} of her own volition. That is hard to do and not be seen somewhere within 5 days! IMO

 

[distracted]

Most of us that live here in McCleary (close to the case) have jobs and families of our own. We have other responsibilities and commitments that keep us from being able to help as much as we would like.
It is close-minded and judgemental to make such statements as your opening sentence in this post. I don't know about the other locals who have posted, but I'm sure that like myself, they want to help as much as they can by providing details about the area and answering questions about bus lines and the layout of the streets etc....things that only locals would know.
Are we seriously degraded to the point that all we can do is look at everyone else and judge what they should or shouldn't be doing or saying or picking apart every facial expression or missplaced word? This tragedy is difficult enough for everyone without us tearing each other apart like a modern day witch hunt.

Hi Gailrene-
I don't want to speak for the other poster but I just want to say that I believe the comments were directed to comments made on other forums by people who claim to be close to the investigation. 99.9% of the members of this forum are really genuine, nice people who want to help. In the year that I have been here every single day, although I don't post every day, I could count on one hand the number of people who just want to cause trouble.

Unfortunately, we are suspicious. I guess that comes with the territory. We pick things apart to try to reach the truth. Having said that, as a general rule, we try to post what we can back up with substantiated facts intead of supposition. There have been some posts on other forums who really haven't been able to substantiate their claims, which obviously makes us suspicious. There have also been occasions in other cases in which people who are close to the investigation have had their own agenda.

We love to have locals' help. As I said earlier to Jennifer, it really is invaluable. Welcome to WS. We're happy that you're here.

 

[STEADFAST]

Most of us that live here in McCleary (close to the case) have jobs and families of our own. We have other responsibilities and commitments that keep us from being able to help as much as we would like.
It is close-minded and judgemental to make such statements as your opening sentence in this post. I don't know about the other locals who have posted, but I'm sure that like myself, they want to help as much as they can by providing details about the area and answering questions about bus lines and the layout of the streets etc....things that only locals would know.
Are we seriously degraded to the point that all we can do is look at everyone else and judge what they should or shouldn't be doing or saying or picking apart every facial expression or missplaced word? This tragedy is difficult enough for everyone without us tearing each other apart like a modern day witch hunt.

We've got some great local posters on WS! However, there are other local posters (on other boards) who post incoherent, unbelievable, and inconsistent information.
The point is, just because someone is local, it doesn't necessarily mean his or her information is going to be helpful, and yet people tend to give locals more credibility than others.
At this point, this isn't so much a tragedy as a probable crime. Something didn't just "happen" to Lindsey. It's really looking as if someone did something to her. In that case, judging what people near to her are saying and how they are saying it is an important part of figuring out who might or might not have taken Lindsey. It's not a "witch hunt" to look at people when there's an unknown perp out there.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Seems the police are now searching landfills...wondering why no cadaver dogs helping.

http://www.kirotv.com/video/19921709/index.html

Seems to me that even if the two girls were trying out both parents to see who could have a sleep over - doesn't make much difference in the scheme of things. Even figuring out two pathways Lindsey may have taken to get home gives us more info and more possibilities to figure things out....just takes longer and is mind crazy.

Where is this child? Where would some sicko put a body in such a small town? My heart goes out to all family and her little friends

They don't usually use cadaver dogs in landfills. It depends on the amount of training the dogs have and the quality of that training, but there are too many false hits in a landfill situation. It is also a very dangerous place for the dogs to search with broken glass etc.

 

[soyesterday]

Did you guys happen to see my bright orange post? I'm so sorry about that! I didn't realize it was that color! I wonder if i can go back and change it somehow!
Anyway i'm still wondering some of that stuff.....does anyone else wonder....is that "family friend" a suspect at all? This person sent Josh home and knew Lindsey was alone....do you know if this person is a suspect at all?

I had questions on there as well....but this one keeps sticking out to me....

Oh and the question about why was Lindsey sent home alone? Was it usual for her to come and go all by herself??
I mean cuz that particular day Josh was sent to walk w/ her...was it different other days.....and that made it okay to send her off on her own?

 

[Kimster]

I learned in the Caylee case that they are pretty good at searching landfills. They know which area of the landfill that the trash was dumped, when it was picked up and the origin of the trash. Pretty amazing, but it takes very special people to do the work. My hats off to them!

 

[distracted]

Did you guys happen to see my bright orange post? I'm so sorry about that! I didn't realize it was that color! I wonder if i can go back and change it somehow!
Anyway i'm still wondering some of that stuff.....does anyone else wonder....is that "family friend" a suspect at all? This person sent Josh home and knew Lindsey was alone....do you know if this person is a suspect at all?

I had questions on there as well....but this one keeps sticking out to me....

Oh and the question about why was Lindsey sent home alone? Was it usual for her to come and go all by herself??
I mean cuz that particular day Josh was sent to walk w/ her...was it different other days.....and that made it okay to send her off on her own?

I meant to reply to you. I got distracted (hence, the username)! :blowkiss:

The color of your post did get my attention so maybe that's not such a bad thing. Anyhow, I don't believe there are concrete answers to any of your questions.

As to the question whether Lindsey walked that route alone on a regular basis, I remember reading that her mother said that she walked it frequently but usually not by herself. I'll have to go find that quote now.

 

[TakeNote]

well...i didnt make it tonight i tried...but family matters came up and i ran out of time to make it there before sun down...

im glad to see some pics posted....thank you for those!

its true we all are doing our best to help find her......but we all cant do it 24/7...even though in our hearts we wish we could....

i was dissapointed i didnt make it there tonight....but i can only do what im able to do....

welcome to all the new posters to Websleuths!

ok....i have a lot to catch up on....if i get out there soon...i will let you all know...again...sorry

 

[distracted]

JVK, those photos are great. What a difference the place looks on a bright, sunny day.

Did you happen to drive or walk from Kayla's to Lindsey's? If so, how long did it take?

 

[ThoughtElf]

Does anyone recall this? I thought we read during Caylee's case on the many cadaver dog posts/threads that many trainers are very hesitant to allow their dogs to be used in landfills due to the likelihood of injury to the dogs? Rusted metals, syringes, broken glass were all cited as potential dangers, IIRC?

Perhaps that is why cadaver dogs haven't been used at the landfill sites. Assuming that they haven't; for all we know, they have been or will be, but it hasn't been reported yet.

ETA: Sorry, should have known SS would have this covered. I missed her post above.

 

[STEADFAST]

Thanks for that video Angel Who Cares, I think they gave us a good persective of Jim's property with the big field, and it probably drops down to the creek back by those trees. He evidently has an acreage which is more involved to search. Jim seems a dear old gent so I doubt it is because of him they are there. Except maybe that the neighborhood kids like him and he lets them play in his fields.

If she is gone I bet she'll eventually be found off one of those logging roads in the woods that surround McCleary.

At the end of your video I was glad to see the station post these statistics to remind us how RARE stranger abductions are:

MISSING CHILDREN

797,500 - REPORTED EVERY YEAR

262,100 - FAMILY AND NON-FAMILY {friends}

115,000 - STRANGER KIDNAPPINGS

That is only 14.42% of all children abducted or 14 for every 100 taken.

So the law of averages says she was either taken by family or friend {32,8 % +} or other, like running away {52.8 % +} of her own volition. That is hard to do and not be seen somewhere within 5 days! IMO

Scandi,
The number of stranger abductions per year given by the TV station was 115 not 115,000. If you watch again, you'll see.
This is a copy of the Department of Justice Study that they referenced: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196467.pdf

Here's a quote from the study:

During the study year, there were an estimated 115
stereotypical kidnappings, defined as abductions per-
petrated by a stranger or slight acquaintance and
involving a child who was transported 50 or more
miles, detained overnight, held for ransom or with
the intent to keep the child permanently, or killed.