WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #9

[scandi]

I tried to peer down in there and it looks like a fairly small opening. You'd really have to work to drag someone in there. Also if the foliage is not tramped down from searchers, then it wasn't trampled down from someone dragging a body in there either. I would imagine that when the searchers went through, they were looking for signs of recent activity and when they didn't see any, moved on.

I mean if you came across a tall field of grass and could see no one walked through it, you might pass it by in your hurry to search more areas. You shouldn't, but you might as time is of the essence.

Hi there, I haven't totally been here as I've had a bit of the flu I think, but have read all of your posts and appreciate every one of them. Am on the mend, thank heavens!


About Sand Creek. Originally we had a great map which showed it criss crossing McCleary from the NE to the SE of town and feeding into Sand Creek Lake/Pond on the south side of Hwy 8.

If one looks at an arial photo of the town you can almost follow the creek's path by the small trees and foliage that would grow adjacent to such a water source. It is spotty, and I think the reason for that is most of the creek has been culverted to create buildable land.

I know in that photo where the creek with strong bushes along it, meets the concrete of civilization, it goes underground heading to the SW. Even though it is a tiny creek it will always be there unless it is rerouted or at dry times of the year might become a dribble for a short time.

They didn't reroute this little creek and I think most of the creek is culverted through the town.

I'm wondering if there is any spot in that creek where a body could be dropped in and wash down into that culvert system, getting entangled or hung up somehow. The pipes are probably standard size. It just made my jaw drop thinking about the possibility, and I might be all wrong about this.


Since I have brought this up I will follow through on Monday morning and call the public works dept in McCleary to get the skinny on Sand Creek, how much of it is culverted, how many open spots in it's path thru town it has, if those culverted areas are maintained and if they have any idea if the culverted areas could even be searched to see what has washed through over the years.


PS: Have the 27 photos of the vigil from Cyber been added to your Cyber thread Kimster. Last night I went to the end of the last thread and found them to give them a good look-see and it was very interesting. In addition to the people you have zoned in on here, in a bleacher photo I see 3 or so men all dressed in black all sitting together. They don't look like locals and am wondering if they could be FBI men? They seem to have that persona about them.

Also, the man in a long sleeved black shirt with the road vest who is sitting on a bleacher looking at the photographer, or off to his left, he is also in one photo standing alone off to the left of a huge tree by himself, again looking at the cameraman. I think he is LE too and not a county or city worker. He is very zoned in to what is around him. Or he could be a perp. Who knows?

:blowkiss:

 

[~dragonfly~]

LOL I smelled the BBQ from here!! My fav!

You mentioned that your wife said JB pushed your kiddo around in a wheelbarrow while at the park. Where did the wheelbarrow come from? Where is it now? How long ago was that activity with your kiddo?

after catching up on last nights posts, i see a wheelbarrow was subject.

i wasn't looking for one as i was flipping thru cyber's pics again but....in the pic of the pool, from behind the house, is what appears to be a wheelbarrow

it's orange. i've never seen an orange wheelbarrow

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/cyberswept/pool_looking_southeast.jpg

 

[McCleary]

I noticed on the park side of the bridge on the right there appeared to be an area where it looked like either erosion or a place where kids may have made a pathway down to the water. IIRC, the folliage was gone and so you wouldn't be able to tell in that area. (This was JVK's photo)

I don't think soaked shoes would have been any big deal to explain around McCleary with all the fishing places around town.

I wonder how deep the water was during the time she went missing?

I know that they searched in the water itself...there were 3 guys in waders that I watched walk down the ditch behind the park and in Wildcat Creek where it flows under Summit on the North side of town. But I don't know how well they looked in the brush around the water...or if they managed to check the culverts.

 

[LORI5050]

I just want to say you people are wonderful.. I read your posts eveyday and want to thank you all for your dedication.. It bothers me that the police and FBI have given nothing to the public.. I live on the east coast and if it wasn't because of this site I would never have heard of Lindsey.

I do have some questions aout Lindsey's life.. I know that her parents are divorced and her father lives somewhere else but are their any other relatives in her life besides her mother and brother? Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles?

Do they live in an apartment or is it a house?

Do they live alone or with other relatives?

Does her mother work full time or part time and where and who are the kids with when she is working?

Some years ago my husband and I met a divorced woman who was renting an apartment from my in-laws.. She had a son 12 and daughter 9.. She had no relatives and the children became part of our family because the mother worked full time and they spent most days with my inlaws or with us.. If not they spent many days home alone.. These kids fought like cats and dogs.. Arguing all the time, fighting and insulting one another.. I would often go over to the house and take one of them for the night just so they could have a break from one another.. Being a single Mom is very difficult and without help from others near impossible.. These kids are now grown and have families of their own and everything is good but I often wonder if she didn't have good people to help her what would have happened to these kids..

So my questions is did she have good people to help her? Who did they go to when she couldn't be there?
I think Lindsey went with someone who she trusted who could it be?

I'm sure these questions have already been answered but I can't help but wonder...

 

[aprilshowers]

Just in case anybody wanted to see a close up:

 

[LadyBugSTL]

:trout:

Now...See! I bet they didn't search that water, under the bridge, or that area either! Those weeds had not been bent over and didn't appear "searched" to me. I know. I know. There I go with that bridge thing again. LOL

If they haven't searched around some of the houses on Maple...there is something wrong. I am praying someone for Gosh sakes will tell MB she NEEDS to call Texas Equusearch personally for them to respond. They will normally only respond to a request from the family. This little girl needs the professional search teams out there to complete the job.

ITA! I really do not understand why this has not been suggested to her - or why there has been no "follow thru" and a phone call placed if it has? If it were I - I'd be begging *anyone with *any experience for assistance. IMO

 

[LadyBugSTL]

I don't think soaked shoes would have been any big deal to explain around McCleary with all the fishing places around town.

I wonder how deep the water was during the time she went missing?

Very good point - and *very good question!!!!

 

[LLLindsayy]

I just want to say you people are wonderful.. I read your posts eveyday and want to thank you all for your dedication.. It bothers me that the police and FBI have given nothing to the public.. I live on the east coast and if it wasn't because of this site I would never have heard of Lindsey.

I do have some questions aout Lindsey's life.. I know that her parents are divorced and her father lives somewhere else but are their any other relatives in her life besides her mother and brother? Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles?

Do they live in an apartment or is it a house?
it's a house. there are pics on the threads

Do they live alone or with other relatives?
i'm guessing it's just lindsey, her brother, and their mom. no one else has been mentioned

Does her mother work full time or part time and where and who are the kids with when she is working?
they might stay home alone. the brother is 12 and i was staying home alone at 12 and so were many of my friends. maybe he was assigned to "watch" her until mom could come home? not sure on any of this.

Some years ago my husband and I met a divorced woman who was renting an apartment from my in-laws.. She had a son 12 and daughter 9.. She had no relatives and the children became part of our family because the mother worked full time and they spent most days with my inlaws or with us.. If not they spent many days home alone.. These kids fought like cats and dogs.. Arguing all the time, fighting and insulting one another.. I would often go over to the house and take one of them for the night just so they could have a break from one another.. Being a single Mom is very difficult and without help from others near impossible.. These kids are now grown and have families of their own and everything is good but I often wonder if she didn't have good people to help her what would have happened to these kids..

So my questions is did she have good people to help her? Who did they go to when she couldn't be there?
I think Lindsey went with someone who she trusted who could it be?

I'm sure these questions have already been answered but I can't help but wonder...

answered what i could in red.

 

[STEADFAST]

I noticed on the park side of the bridge on the right there appeared to be an area where it looked like either erosion or a place where kids may have made a pathway down to the water. IIRC, the folliage was gone and so you wouldn't be able to tell in that area. (This was JVK's photo)

I don't think soaked shoes would have been any big deal to explain around McCleary with all the fishing places around town.

I wonder how deep the water was during the time she went missing?

I don't know if this would have any significance as far as the water in that creek, but thought I'd put it out there. This is a community note for McCleary in the Vidette.

Monday-Thursday, June 29-July 2
• The city’s water system will be flushed, weather permitting, to dislodge normal residue accumulations from inside the water lines. City officials say that while it may cause some discoloration of the water, it will not present any health hazards. Once the system has been flushed in their immediate area, residents should flush their own system by running water through their bathtubs or outdoor spigot until the water runs clear. Also, brief periods of lower-than-normal water pressure may be experienced. Lastly, residents should make sure the water in their washing machine runs clean before running a load of laundry, to prevent staining. For more information, call the city at 495-3667.

http://www.thevidette.com//archives/18jun09/comnotes.html

 

[concentric]

I must question this in every missing child case:

Wonder if she is being held in some kind of underground bunker in the surrounding forest.

I know the survelliance copters and planes were using infrared at night.

Just remember that case in the one of the southern states where the guy kidnapped a child and kept her in one of these.

The search parties walked right over the top and never found her.

She was the one who actually saved herself.

I'll try to find the story if anyone wants to read it.

OK, just found it. I'll never forget this one:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-18-text-message-rescue_x.htm
http://it.moldova.org/news/sms-message-saves-girl-from-sex-maniac-72534-eng.html

 

[concentric]

Seems to me there might be more than a few "survivalist" types in the Pacific NW area who would be equipped to make a bunker.

I will keep adding links to the above as I find them, as each article reveals different elements of the case.

http://it.moldova.org/news/sms-message-saves-girl-from-sex-maniac-72534-eng.html

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/18/text.rescue/index.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/19/us/19bunker.html

 

[not_my_kids]

I have emailed churches in the Hoodsport area, and am working on grocery stores and video stores. Also dollar stores, those I can find an email for, since if by some fluke she did run away, she may have gone looking for a place that is familiar to her, like a dollar store. I started in the stretch between McCleary and Hoodsport, and now I am expanding outward. I hope this brings something into the light.
It didn't bring Haylee home when I did it for her, but she was found shortly after, so maybe there is something to the idea of positive thought and getting more people to look at her face and pray for her.
And on the upside, by the time I'm done, I should know the layout of every city and town in WA state.

 

[concentric]

And, we all know the stories of the hidden bunkers under homes/garages, etc.
Fritzl and Jamelske the older man, a retired handyman who put like 5 women in one.

Here's one I hadn't even seen before! Dogs couldn't sniff it out. And police were right on top of it.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...ywOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tH0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6675,2895038

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hi there, I haven't totally been here as I've had a bit of the flu I think, but have read all of your posts and appreciate every one of them. Am on the mend, thank heavens!


About Sand Creek. Originally we had a great map which showed it criss crossing McCleary from the NE to the SE of town and feeding into Sand Creek Lake/Pond on the south side of Hwy 8.

If one looks at an arial photo of the town you can almost follow the creek's path by the small trees and foliage that would grow adjacent to such a water source. It is spotty, and I think the reason for that is most of the creek has been culverted to create buildable land.

I know in that photo where the creek with strong bushes along it, meets the concrete of civilization, it goes underground heading to the SW. Even though it is a tiny creek it will always be there unless it is rerouted or at dry times of the year might become a dribble for a short time.

They didn't reroute this little creek and I think most of the creek is culverted through the town.

I'm wondering if there is any spot in that creek where a body could be dropped in and wash down into that culvert system, getting entangled or hung up somehow. The pipes are probably standard size. It just made my jaw drop thinking about the possibility, and I might be all wrong about this.


Since I have brought this up I will follow through on Monday morning and call the public works dept in McCleary to get the skinny on Sand Creek, how much of it is culverted, how many open spots in it's path thru town it has, if those culverted areas are maintained and if they have any idea if the culverted areas could even be searched to see what has washed through over the years.

PS: Have the 27 photos of the vigil from Cyber been added to your Cyber thread Kimster. Last night I went to the end of the last thread and found them to give them a good look-see and it was very interesting. In addition to the people you have zoned in on here, in a bleacher photo I see 3 or so men all dressed in black all sitting together. They don't look like locals and am wondering if they could be FBI men? They seem to have that persona about them.

Also, the man in a long sleeved black shirt with the road vest who is sitting on a bleacher looking at the photographer, or off to his left, he is also in one photo standing alone off to the left of a huge tree by himself, again looking at the cameraman. I think he is LE too and not a county or city worker. He is very zoned in to what is around him. Or he could be a perp. Who knows?

:blowkiss:

Thanks, Scandi~ That is exactly what I was thinking about her getting caught up inside where it would be so difficult for them to search. I would imagine in those situations they can use cameras and divers to investigate. The question is...have they? That is great information on the creek and I will go back to try to find the map. Yes, please call and get the additional information.

I wonder if those people are FBI if they will be happy with us pointing them out to everyone. LOL Hey...like you said tho...could be LE or could be the perp! We are just doing our jobs to watch out for unusual characters and things. We can't help it if we are good.

O/T: :blowkiss: Sorry you have been under the weather~ We missed you!!Feel better soon!! (You should make sure it isn't Swine Flu or something else!) Hugs~

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I just want to say you people are wonderful.. I read your posts eveyday and want to thank you all for your dedication.. It bothers me that the police and FBI have given nothing to the public.. I live on the east coast and if it wasn't because of this site I would never have heard of Lindsey.

I do have some questions aout Lindsey's life.. I know that her parents are divorced and her father lives somewhere else but are their any other relatives in her life besides her mother and brother? Grandparents? Aunts? Uncles?

Do they live in an apartment or is it a house?

Do they live alone or with other relatives?

Does her mother work full time or part time and where and who are the kids with when she is working?

Some years ago my husband and I met a divorced woman who was renting an apartment from my in-laws.. She had a son 12 and daughter 9.. She had no relatives and the children became part of our family because the mother worked full time and they spent most days with my inlaws or with us.. If not they spent many days home alone.. These kids fought like cats and dogs.. Arguing all the time, fighting and insulting one another.. I would often go over to the house and take one of them for the night just so they could have a break from one another.. Being a single Mom is very difficult and without help from others near impossible.. These kids are now grown and have families of their own and everything is good but I often wonder if she didn't have good people to help her what would have happened to these kids..

So my questions is did she have good people to help her? Who did they go to when she couldn't be there?
I think Lindsey went with someone who she trusted who could it be?

I'm sure these questions have already been answered but I can't help but wonder...

Welcome to WS, Lori~ Great questions!

I have wondered about the grandparents and other relatives in this case, too. We haven't heard anything about them. It appears the mother's support system consists of friends (not sure how well she gets along with the kids' father). It is difficult being a single parent with two kids.

It seems the children have little in the way of supervision, imo. We know they were both allowed to roam and mom did not have a car to keep track of them altho Lindsey did have a cell phone. They were given a curfew of 10:00pm.

We are still not clear on the mom's hours, but it has been reported she has/had a job in a 5 Cent - 5 Dollar store in Elma. She has mentioned her co-worker a couple of times. (How does she get to work and back with no vehicle?)

It is very frustrating when the FBI and LE won't tell the public anything about the case. Let's just hope it means they are working on some critical leads.

 

[JenniferO]

That is great information on the creek and I will go back to try to find the map. Yes, please call and get the additional information.

Check this out..
Maps, Aerial Shots, And Directions - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Jennifer~ Looking at that map is rather confusing since I can't see Sand Creek running near the houses at all on the regular map. Good to know it dumps out into Sand Creek Pond tho! I am assuming they have checked it out already (tho I could be assuming too much!).

I would feel so much better if TES were on the scene and going over each area methodically starting at ground zero. (sigh)

 

[scandi]

Thanks, Scandi~ That is exactly what I was thinking about her getting caught up inside where it would be so difficult for them to search. I would imagine in those situations they can use cameras and divers to investigate. The question is...have they? That is great information on the creek and I will go back to try to find the map. Yes, please call and get the additional information.

I wonder if those people are FBI if they will be happy with us pointing them out to everyone. LOL Hey...like you said tho...could be LE or could be the perp! We are just doing our jobs to watch out for unusual characters and things. We can't help it if we are good.

O/T: :blowkiss: Sorry you have been under the weather~ We missed you!!Feel better soon!! (You should make sure it isn't Swine Flu or something else!) Hugs~

Thanks for the response SS. I wrote that post in the middle of the night LOL and coming in this morning saw no one had commented on it and thought maybe I had gone way over the top! :crazy:

I don't think divers could get into culvert pipe, though not sure. I know I'd be afraid of getting stuck myself

.

I'm off to run some errands and will be back in a couple of hours. I think I actually got food poisoning from some BBQue sauce. Gotta watch that sauce! xox

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks for the response SS. I wrote that post in the middle of the night LOL and coming in this morning saw no one had commented on it and thought maybe I had gone way over the top! :crazy:

I don't think divers could get into culvert pipe, though not sure. I know I'd be afraid of getting stuck myself

.

I'm off to run some errands and will be back in a couple of hours. I think I actually got food poisoning from some BBQue sauce. Gotta watch that sauce! xox

That is why I mentioned the cameras. They can feed those into tighter places while underwater.

Oh, MY! Glad you are feeling good enough to be out and about.

 

[JenniferO]

Thanks, Jennifer~ Looking at that map is rather confusing since I can't see Sand Creek running near the houses at all on the regular map. Good to know it dumps out into Sand Creek Pond tho! I am assuming they have checked it out already (tho I could be assuming too much!).

I would feel so much better if TES were on the scene and going over each area methodically starting at ground zero. (sigh)

I've been to McCleary a billion times and I didn't even know there was a creek through town (except for that small section behind the Shell) until this case.