WA - Major security incident at SeaTac Airport. All planes are grounded, Aug 2018

  • #241
  • #242
Some passages from IMO the most incredible read on depression his writing is stunning

“A phenomenon that a number of people have noted while in deep depression is the sense of being accompanied by a second self — a wraithlike observer who, not sharing the dementia of his double, is able to watch with dispassionate curiosity as his companion struggles against the oncoming disaster, or decides to embrace it.

There is a theatrical quality about all this, and during the next several days, as I went about stolidly preparing for extinction, I couldn't shake off a sense of melodrama — a melodrama in which I, the victim-to-be of self-murder, was both the solitary actor and lone member of the audience.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness


“In depression this faith in deliverance, in ultimate restoration, is absent. The pain is unrelenting, and what makes the condition intolerable is the foreknowledge that no remedy will come- not in a day, an hour, a month, or a minute. If there is mild relief, one knows that it is only temporary; more pain will follow. It is hopelessness even more than pain that crushes the soul. So the decision-making of daily life involves not, as in normal affairs, shifting from one annoying situation to another less annoying- or from discomfort to relative comfort, or from boredom to activity- but moving from pain to pain

“In depression this faith in deliverance, in ultimate restoration, is absent. The pain is unrelenting, and what makes the condition intolerable is the foreknowledge that no remedy will come- not in a day, an hour, a month, or a minute. If there is mild relief, one knows that it is only temporary; more pain will follow. It is hopelessness even more than pain that crushes the soul. So the decision-making of daily life involves not, as in normal affairs, shifting from one annoying situation to another less annoying- or from discomfort to relative comfort, or from boredom to activity- but moving from pain to pain. One does not abandon, even briefly, one’s bed of nails, but is attached to it wherever one goes. And this results in a striking experience- one which I have called, borrowing military terminology, the situation of the walking wounded. For in virtually any other serious sickness, a patient who felt similar devistation would by lying flat in bed, possibly sedated and hooked up to the tubes and wires of life-support systems, but at the very least in a posture of repose and in an isolated setting. His invalidism would be necessary, unquestioned and honorably attained. However, the sufferer from depression has no such option and therefore finds himself, like a walking casualty of war, thrust into the most intolerable social and family situations. There he must, despite the anguish devouring his brain, present a face approximating the one that is associated with ordinary events and companionship. He must try to utter small talk, and be responsive to questions, and knowingly nod and frown and, God help him, even smile. But it is a fierce trial attempting to speak a few simple words.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness
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“The pain of severe depression is quite unimaginable to those who have not suffered it, and it kills in many instances because its anguish can no longer be borne. The prevention of many suicides will continue to be hindered until there is a general awareness of the nature of this pain.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness
tags: anguish, awareness, depressed, depression, mental-health, mental-illness, pain, prevention,psychology, suffering, suicide
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“Depression is a disorder of mood, so mysteriously painful and elusive in the way it becomes known to the self -- to the mediating intellect-- as to verge close to being beyond description. It thus remains nearly incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it in its extreme mode.”

“The madness of depression is, generally speaking, the antithesis of violence. It is a storm indeed, but a storm of murk. Soon evident are the slowed-down responses, near paralysis, psychic energy throttled back close to zero. Ultimately, the body is affected and feels sapped, drained.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness

Depression, most people know, used to be termed "melancholia," a word which appears in English as the year 1303 and crops up more than once in Chaucer, who in his usage seemed to be aware of its pathological nuances. "Melancholia" would still appear to be a far more apt and evocative word for the blacker forms of the disorder, but it was usurped by a noun with a blank tonality and lacking any magisterial presence, used indifferently to describe an economic decline or a rut in the ground, a true wimp of a word for such a major illness.

It thus remains nearly incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it in its extreme mode, although the gloom, "the blues" which people go through occasionally and associate with the general hassle of everyday existence are of such prevalence that they do give many individuals a hint of the illness in its catastrophic form.”

“There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy.”

It may be more accurate to say that despair, owing to some evil trick played upon the sick brain by the inhabiting psyche, comes to resemble the diabolical discomfort of being imprisoned in a fiercely overheated room. And because no breeze stirs this cauldron, because there is no escape from the smothering confinement, it is natural that the victim begins to think ceaselessly of oblivion

Darkness Visible Quotes by William Styron(page 2 of 2)

I read Darkness Visible some years ago. Very illuminating.

It astounds me that some can be enraged at people who are sick.
 
  • #243
He sounds desperate, and somewhat manic to me, does anyone else get that from the audio ? Possibly undiagnosed bipolar ?
He sounded resolved to me.
It’s really gut wrenching to hear his last moments.
Yes I have empathy for him and his loved ones. My brother also convinced himself through depression that he would not be missed. It was a life long battle. Prayers to all.
 
  • #244
I think this age of super-advanced technologies, this age of superficial, profit-driven social media platforms conjures an illusion of authentic connection and is increasingly replacing organic, physical contact.

I think it causes many people to actually feel more isolated and disconnected.

I know so many folks who are both addicted to social media and who also desperately want to break free of it and return to "the way it used to be".

We all know we can deactivate our SM accounts. But how many folks actually do and stick to it? Very few, because we've come to believe that if we're not on SM, we'll lose touch with our friends and we won't know what's going on in the world.

Truth is: most of the hundreds of people we've "friended" and/or follow on SM we don't even know in real life - they're just friends-of-friends-of-friends of somebody else we knew briefly back in college, or someone else who-may-or-may-not know a person we knew at some point in the past.

There's a song by the band Dawes called "Living in the Future" that I like.

An excerpt of the lyrics:

"I know all of my exits
I'm always plannin' my escape
It's the most aggressive symptom
Of this collective phantom pain
And the more that you ignore it
The more it makes you go insane
Just look around...

We're livin' in the future, so shine a little light
It may not make it any better, I'm just hopin' that it might
I'm not talkin' 'bout forever, how 'bout just gettin' through the night?
We're livin' in the future, so shine a little light... "

IOW: We know we can exit/escape SM and rediscover face-to-face contact, but we resist and continue to ride the merry-go-round while everything spins increasingly out of control.

I believe SM has its place: To provide needed/important information, cursory contact during the course of our busy lives, as well as invaluable encouragement to one another when we can't be physically together.

However, SM can't and doesn't replace intimate, face-to-face contact that human beings need in order to thrive.

Let us have compassion for one another, since: "We're livin' in the future, so shine a little light..."


 
  • #245
The media endless focus on no flight exp only refers to formal training at this point

The reality as seen on endless video on YT is quite a skilled airman . Does matter how he acquired these skills it was incredible showmanship.

taking off is not push up the throttles and go for it .

It is extraordinarily complicated. He would have to know how to set flaps for weight of aircraft have some sense of ground speed needed before he lifted nose off on and on i could go

doing a roll like that perfectly and being able to end the roll seamlessly and stabilize the decent out of the roll in a commercial jetliner is extraordinary.

it was not a sloppy stop the decent -- it was beautiful -- this is often the oos and ahhs of the airshows the end decent stabilize and head back up to the wild blue yonder seamlessly

A prop jet makes it more amazing. Jets do this stuff a lot easier

I do kinda think (not airman ship more structural stuff) the roll damaged something - he is reporting concern about one of the turbo props I think the dive may have put one of them out of commission possibly ending the experience

or he might have been done happy he did not kill anyone and follow through with he will just put the nose down and be done

ha the reality is most of us should hope to have a pilot that skilled should we hit some turbulence and enter a dive and be able to recover so flawlessly!!!

he was also able to do so without having much altitude that is incredible -- if an aircraft is at 32000 feet and enters a dive and has 32000 feet to manage it that is different if a aircraft entered the exact same dynamic at 6000 feet the time available to stabilize it is far different

and ..................to do it so gracefully is well just is ................

Coming out of the roll was utterly amazing! while handling the radio throughout (stated auto pilot off )

I do feel the end of the recording (wife) has been kept from us but will probably come out throughout he was engaged with ATC so i would think he would do so till the end

moo
 
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  • #246
He sounded resolved to me.
It’s really gut wrenching to hear his last moments.
Yes I have empathy for him and his loved ones. My brother also convinced himself through depression that he would not be missed. It was a life long battle. Prayers to all.

Oh no. I'm sorry to you and all (Ana Pisces) who have lost someone to mental illness.

It's odd to me that not everyone realizes there are degrees to mental health issues. Depression can be quite different for different people. Extremely resistant to treatment. My ex has suffered from clinical depression since childhood. Interestingly, after doing quite much better, it came back with a fury, like never seen before. Well, test results just showed an anomalous Vitamin D3 deficiency.

It took a long time to figure that out and it only happened after I urged blood tests.

Some people can have it much worse than others and can just give up after years of battle. Some can take all the meds in the world and attend therapy and still not be able to stop it.

Some are unaware there's some kind of chemical imbalance until it is too late. Sometimes chemical imbalances can appear suddenly due to various factors. Or there could be brain tumors at play. Or head injuries.

There are so many possibilities that merit attempting compassion instead of expressing arrogant, certain condemnation, IMO.

Hugs to you, Cortne. Neither you nor your brother deserved what happened.
 
  • #247
Oh no. I'm sorry to you and all (Ana Pisces) who have lost someone to mental illness.

It's odd to me that not everyone realizes there are degrees to mental health issues. Depression can be quite different for different people. Extremely resistant to treatment. My ex has suffered from clinical depression since childhood. Interestingly, after doing quite much better, it came back with a fury, like never seen before. Well, test results just showed an anomalous Vitamin D3 deficiency.

It took a long time to figure that out and it only happened after I urged blood tests.

Some people can have it much worse than others and can just give up after years of battle. Some can take all the meds in the world and attend therapy and still not be able to stop it.

Some are unaware there's some kind of chemical imbalance until it is too late. Sometimes chemical imbalances can appear suddenly due to various factors. Or there could be brain tumors at play. Or head injuries.

There are so many possibilities that merit attempting compassion instead of expressing arrogant, certain condemnation, IMO.

Hugs to you, Cortne. Neither you nor your brother deserved what happened.
Hey wow you are right on target! I learned after his death about the D3 levels ... I know part of my grief process was to make sure I was as healthy as I could be mentally and physically. My D3 levels have been a huge part of it!! And hugs back!! I miss him terribly. Hes happy now and that makes me happy. What he did was terrible but at least he didn’t do it on a world wide level lol
 
  • #248
I read Darkness Visible some years ago. Very illuminating.

It astounds me that some can be enraged at people who are sick.

me too his writing was incredible

you would love

Advice From A Failure
by Jo Coudert

It knocked me to the ground during that like 5 years or so i read parts of it over and over !!

I ordered like 15 (they had to pay my cost !) and gave it to high functioning folks!

5 starsMany Moons Ago This Book Changed My Life
 
  • #249
I feel empathy towards his wife who lost her husband and is going to have to deal with reporters at her door while in mourning.

I feel empathy towards his friends and co-workers who are wondering if they missed something. I've had to help someone who lost a dear friend to suicide before.

I feel empathy towards the residents of Ketron Island. It's less than a mile and a half long. Imagine a plane crash half a mile from you. Or less. I'd be a nervous wreck and wondering what might have been.

I feel empathy towards the thousands of people who sat in planes or waited in hard-as-nails airport seats because somebody decided they could take a joy ride because they played a flight sim on a computer.

I feel empathy towards the firefighters who are already on high alert due to wildfire dangers in Washington State, and having to haul equipment on a small ferry.

I do not feel any empathy towards Mr. Russell. I don't see why I should frankly.

because as people we are capable of having empathy for those you mentioned and him at the same time

i hate it when mass shooters are called "evil" there not evil they are suffering

would anyone call a diabetic evil if there blood sugar dropped and they caused a major traffic wreck

rage at someone who stroked while driving ?


i hope not

until our society gets there we will all be doing another mass shooting in about 4.6 days

mental is a biological illness imo
 
  • #250
I think he also may have been used to flight simulators which can make things "easy" for people. For instance, not having to worry all that much about fuel so you can have a long "flight", when fuel is actually a big deal. He may have thought he'd have enough fuel for a much longer ride, but pulling all those stunts could burn through fuel quickly.

I dont think he cared

he earnestly reported that he :

really did not plan on how to land

the word really was said in a tone that was like a revelation to him !

and other things he did not pay attn to or was surprised by (amount of fuel needed for takeoff )

earnestly inquiring can this thing do some rolls

his will they give a job for pilot indicated a longing to be one

he shared that he got to serenity

that he noticed things he had never noticed before he was at peace with going
 
  • #251
Some passages from IMO the most incredible read on depression his writing is stunning

“A phenomenon that a number of people have noted while in deep depression is the sense of being accompanied by a second self — a wraithlike observer who, not sharing the dementia of his double, is able to watch with dispassionate curiosity as his companion struggles against the oncoming disaster, or decides to embrace it.

There is a theatrical quality about all this, and during the next several days, as I went about stolidly preparing for extinction, I couldn't shake off a sense of melodrama — a melodrama in which I, the victim-to-be of self-murder, was both the solitary actor and lone member of the audience.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness


“In depression this faith in deliverance, in ultimate restoration, is absent. The pain is unrelenting, and what makes the condition intolerable is the foreknowledge that no remedy will come- not in a day, an hour, a month, or a minute. If there is mild relief, one knows that it is only temporary; more pain will follow. It is hopelessness even more than pain that crushes the soul. So the decision-making of daily life involves not, as in normal affairs, shifting from one annoying situation to another less annoying- or from discomfort to relative comfort, or from boredom to activity- but moving from pain to pain

“In depression this faith in deliverance, in ultimate restoration, is absent. The pain is unrelenting, and what makes the condition intolerable is the foreknowledge that no remedy will come- not in a day, an hour, a month, or a minute. If there is mild relief, one knows that it is only temporary; more pain will follow. It is hopelessness even more than pain that crushes the soul. So the decision-making of daily life involves not, as in normal affairs, shifting from one annoying situation to another less annoying- or from discomfort to relative comfort, or from boredom to activity- but moving from pain to pain. One does not abandon, even briefly, one’s bed of nails, but is attached to it wherever one goes. And this results in a striking experience- one which I have called, borrowing military terminology, the situation of the walking wounded. For in virtually any other serious sickness, a patient who felt similar devistation would by lying flat in bed, possibly sedated and hooked up to the tubes and wires of life-support systems, but at the very least in a posture of repose and in an isolated setting. His invalidism would be necessary, unquestioned and honorably attained. However, the sufferer from depression has no such option and therefore finds himself, like a walking casualty of war, thrust into the most intolerable social and family situations. There he must, despite the anguish devouring his brain, present a face approximating the one that is associated with ordinary events and companionship. He must try to utter small talk, and be responsive to questions, and knowingly nod and frown and, God help him, even smile. But it is a fierce trial attempting to speak a few simple words.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness
134 likes
Like
“The pain of severe depression is quite unimaginable to those who have not suffered it, and it kills in many instances because its anguish can no longer be borne. The prevention of many suicides will continue to be hindered until there is a general awareness of the nature of this pain.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness
tags: anguish, awareness, depressed, depression, mental-health, mental-illness, pain, prevention,psychology, suffering, suicide
118 likes
Like
“Depression is a disorder of mood, so mysteriously painful and elusive in the way it becomes known to the self -- to the mediating intellect-- as to verge close to being beyond description. It thus remains nearly incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it in its extreme mode.”

“The madness of depression is, generally speaking, the antithesis of violence. It is a storm indeed, but a storm of murk. Soon evident are the slowed-down responses, near paralysis, psychic energy throttled back close to zero. Ultimately, the body is affected and feels sapped, drained.”
William Styron, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness

Depression, most people know, used to be termed "melancholia," a word which appears in English as the year 1303 and crops up more than once in Chaucer, who in his usage seemed to be aware of its pathological nuances. "Melancholia" would still appear to be a far more apt and evocative word for the blacker forms of the disorder, but it was usurped by a noun with a blank tonality and lacking any magisterial presence, used indifferently to describe an economic decline or a rut in the ground, a true wimp of a word for such a major illness.

It thus remains nearly incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it in its extreme mode, although the gloom, "the blues" which people go through occasionally and associate with the general hassle of everyday existence are of such prevalence that they do give many individuals a hint of the illness in its catastrophic form.”

“There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy.”

It may be more accurate to say that despair, owing to some evil trick played upon the sick brain by the inhabiting psyche, comes to resemble the diabolical discomfort of being imprisoned in a fiercely overheated room. And because no breeze stirs this cauldron, because there is no escape from the smothering confinement, it is natural that the victim begins to think ceaselessly of oblivion

Darkness Visible Quotes by William Styron(page 2 of 2)
This was such an enlightening book to me when I read it in grad school. Great quotes.
 
  • #252
This has been a compelling thread to read and share with all of you. I am grateful for the conversation and wish peace on the family and loved ones of Richard Russell.
 
  • #253
  • #254
I think what makes this so shocking is that this seemingly very likable guy could be our brother, son, cousin, best friend. He is very relatable.

I would also double down on airport security in the immediate future to watch for copycats; this was very sensational.

While it is sad to see this tragedy, it is a miracle others weren’t killed. A great deal of thanks is owed to the fighter pilots surrounding him, and especially the air traffic controller talking to him.

It looks like that was one heck of ride. And yes, I see a movie in the works. Such is the American way.

Prayers to his family, especially his wife.
 
  • #255
Wonder if something triggered his decision to do it that day? Problems at home, not performing in his job etc?

Or perhaps he had been thinking about it, planning it, and the opportunity presented itself with the empty plane sitting there?

I am thankful he was considerate enough of his fellow human beings that he took an empty plane rather than one with passengers.
 
  • #256
I think what makes this so shocking is that this seemingly very likable guy could be our brother, son, cousin, best friend. He is very relatable.

I would also double down on airport security in the immediate future to watch for copycats; this was very sensational.

While it is sad to see this tragedy, it is a miracle others weren’t killed. A great deal of thanks is owed to the fighter pilots surrounding him, and especially the air traffic controller talking to him.

It looks like that was one heck of ride. And yes, I see a movie in the works. Such is the American way.

Prayers to his family, especially his wife.


All his conversation with air traffic control he never mentioned wife.
 
  • #257
The suspect worked for Horizon Air for three and a half years, handling the baggage, cleaning the plane, and was 'tow certified,' allowing him to run the little tractors that pull the planes. He went through a 10-year background check to get the job.

Worker who stole Horizon Air turboprop identified: ABC News


West did say that in that role on the tow team, there's access to the cockpit, training on the radio and the ability to move the airplane.
 
  • #258
I suffer from depression and have friends who have mental health issues. We go to therapy, we cope however we can, we deal with it, it's not easy. This man decided to steal a plane, put people in danger because he had zero flight experience, and crashed it on an inhabited island.

I believe there was a plane crash in the alps caused by a suicidal pilot, and then there is Malaysian 370. This is not going to help the cause of people with mental health issues being involved in aviation.

but ....that is not what happened
 
  • #259
I think what makes this so shocking is that this seemingly very likable guy could be our brother, son, cousin, best friend. He is very relatable.

I would also double down on airport security in the immediate future to watch for copycats; this was very sensational.

While it is sad to see this tragedy, it is a miracle others weren’t killed. A great deal of thanks is owed to the fighter pilots surrounding him, and especially the air traffic controller talking to him.

It looks like that was one heck of ride. And yes, I see a movie in the works. Such is the American way.

Prayers to his family, especially his wife.

Air traffic controller and the pilot. One was at first and then another came on. The fighter pilots were ready to do what it took to make sure he didn't harm others put it was really the controller and the pilot who kept him calm and directed him.
 
  • #260
I challenge you to find ONE mental health diagnosis (besides personality disorders, catatonia and psychosis-he wasn’t catatonic or psychotic )that lists extreme unconcern for others aka selfishness as a symptom.


or...............he was very confident he could handle it

and he did

at this point for all we know he has practicing for 5 years to fly it back then not to kill himself but a dream he had
 

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