WA - Major security incident at SeaTac Airport. All planes are grounded, Aug 2018

[rosesfromangels]

Is it really necessary to wax so rhapsodic about his brilliance? To be so careful to parse his words looking for context? He stole a passenger airplane, endangered thousands, ruined his family.

Would all this loving fascination be heaped upon him if he had been a man of another religion, even with all the other circumstances being the same? I think he’d be called a terrorist hijacker and there would be pure outrage at the danger he exposed to innocent people.

Well said, agree 100%

 

[CARIIS]

Tell that to his grieving wife and family. Also remember he had no flight instruction and flew from a major airport and over thousands of homes and crash landed not far from homes.

"He didn't want to hurt anyone" is not correct no matter how many times you repeat it. We got lucky. He's no different from a drunk driver who manages to hit a tree instead of a minivan with a family inside.

possibilities compared to outcomes - they are different

his family , in all likelihood, would experience the same losses if he used a gun

he knew enough to steal it take it take off cruise flip and crash it - learning method was different for sure - the reason why he hurt no one is he was apparently very competent in flying the Q400.

The drunk driver analogy is somewhat bewildering. There would be a huge difference if a drunk driver hit a tree or killed a family in a van.

 

[enelram]

I don't know about that Blue, I tend to see it otherwise.
Any jet pilots want to weigh in and calibrate my opinion?

Consulted w/ son, ex military and now commercial pilot and he doesn't mince words LOL :
" I personally find it non-sensical that some folks think that what this criminal dim-wit did was some sentient feat.

Anything the occupant did in the air was easily within the amateurish ability of anyone who took a couple flying lessons, which he did.

Getting the Q400 started and flying around could be practiced ad-infinitum on any 'video game' like ___ ___ ___.

Couple these realities with fully 'vetted' airport security credentials and any marginally unbalanced failure-in-life
could do exactly the same.

The truth is hard, but airlines do not stay in business by hiring the best of humanity for these difficult, low wage positions.

The industry is loathe to admit the obvious here."

 

[rosesfromangels]

Consulted w/ son, ex military and now commercial pilot and he doesn't mince words LOL :
" I personally find it non-sensical that some folks think that what this criminal dim-wit did was some sentient feat.

Anything the occupant did in the air was easily within the amateurish ability of anyone who took a couple flying lessons, which he did.

Getting the Q400 started and flying around could be practiced ad-infinitum on any 'video game' like ___ ___ ___.

Couple these realities with fully 'vetted' airport security credentials and any marginally unbalanced failure-in-life
could do exactly the same.

The truth is hard, but airlines do not stay in business by hiring the best of humanity for these difficult, low wage positions.

The industry is loathe to admit the obvious here."

Thanks. Once again, I eat my hat. Anyone have Tabasco sauce?

 

[enelram]

Thanks. Once again, I eat my hat. Anyone have Tabasco sauce?

Don't feel bad, I've lived and breathed this stuff through familial
assimilation most of my adult life and I still think like most people
when it comes to aviation. We just don't know what we don't know.

 

[Gardenista]

Consulted w/ son, ex military and now commercial pilot and he doesn't mince words LOL :
" I personally find it non-sensical that some folks think that what this criminal dim-wit did was some sentient feat.

Anything the occupant did in the air was easily within the amateurish ability of anyone who took a couple flying lessons, which he did.

Getting the Q400 started and flying around could be practiced ad-infinitum on any 'video game' like ___ ___ ___.

Couple these realities with fully 'vetted' airport security credentials and any marginally unbalanced failure-in-life
could do exactly the same.

The truth is hard, but airlines do not stay in business by hiring the best of humanity for these difficult, low wage positions.

The industry is loathe to admit the obvious here."

LOL, this is awesome.

 

[CARIIS]

Does anyone across the planet really think that all people and expert aviation folks who find what transpired incredible really believe that the majority of us that fall into that category think he is hero?

Of course not - the story became a international story because of the event in its entirety

Obviously wildy bright ( does that equate to a hero - no it is observation born out of reports)

Was his humor wicked - indeed ( does that equate to a hero - of course not)

DId he successfully engage in flying skills that a Q400 is not designed for (indeed - does that make him a hero - no )

Was his repeated desire not to harm anyone carried out . It was. (does that make him a hero - of course not)

Jack the Ripper is folklore.

Charles Manson is folklore

DB Cooper is folklore

Is any saying that Manson and the Ripper are heros? No

Will the 10th be remembered in aviation histroy for eternity - for sure . The DB Cooper deal lives on . There is a huge thread here.

Does Jon Bonet and Casey anthony live in infamy - they do

does that translate to others truly believing that lots of people think they are heros. Of course not.

For lack of a better word , is it "better" that he did not grab a machine gun and go mutilate as many as he could - well certainly.

The notion that those of us found him endearing and a sweet funny person that went into dark places - mean a hero no.

For those of us who have lived in clinical depression know his darkness - yes. Do most of us want to go grab a machine gun or a aircraft and crash it - of course not.

The event captivated the world for reason outlined above

just to make sure we all are communicating - is a hero? No he is not hero


Perhaps it is vocation. Every mass shooter and their families I have felt for..

Both can be felt in the same universe - that does not translate to anything other than feeling for fellow homspaians

He is not a hero .

What he did do -- was realize his fantasy- did he do it "properly" of course not.

Are humans flawed , of course.


at the end of the day some people were late , an insurance company has a write off -its far better than scooping body parts off the floor as the result of a machine gun or being squished to death by a vehicle , or decapitated by a knife ...just the times guys just the times.........................................

jmo..........

 

[Doghairrules]

Beautiful post, Rose, especially your last few lines.

“I remember 29 years old... It is a crossroad time.

I remember in my own experience having the world all figured out at 18 years old, and then Blam, Pow, Zoom! ...Omg...

There were some dark reckonings, troubled waters, and valleys to cross.”
BBM

The song “Many Rivers to Cross” by Jimmy Cliff came into my mind and wouldn’t leave.

Cliff was 21 when he wrote and recorded it and he says:

“I was struggling, with work, life, my identity, I couldn’t find my place; frustration fuelled the song.”

“It became a classic, because everyone can relate to it, everyone at some point asks ‘Who am I? Why am I here? What am I going to do?’ ”
Jimmy Cliff interview: 'I still have many rivers to cross'

For Rich, and anyone else who may have been asking these questions...A beautiful version from Cliff’s SNL appearance in 1975...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Love that so much. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[nerosleuth]

I don't see how the FBI could investigate this. Crash investigations are not their thing.

Normally the only time that the FBI would become involved in an aircraft crash investigation is when the aircraft crash is caused by an act of terrorism.

I can think of two other reasons why the FBI would become involved in this aircraft incident.

The first reason is that an aircraft was stolen and flown by a person that wasn’t authorized to fly an aircraft.

The second reason is that there was a security breach issue at the airport.

I suspect the second reason is why the FBI is involved in this aircraft incident as they consider a security breach issue at an airport to be a national security issue.

 

[Doghairrules]

‘Video games’? Pilots wonder how plane thief learned to do aerial acrobatics
Originally published August 13, 2018 at 6:45 pm Updated August 13, 2018 at 7:34 pm

Horizon Chief Executive Officer Gary Beck told reporters that Russell didn’t appear to have a pilot’s license. Yet aviation instructors, pilots and safety experts suspect that he had some sort of training, whether from a flight-simulator game or some form of lessons.

Mary Schiavo, an aviation attorney and former inspector general of the Department of Transportation, said video of some of his turns looked smooth, or “coordinated” in pilot parlance, keeping the plane’s nose from veering to one side or the other.

“It looked like he had some skills,” she said. “It looked like he had touched the controls of an airplane before.”

Though Schiavo and other experts think Russell’s flying prowess indicated prior experience in the cockpit, one longtime family friend, who works for the Federal Aviation Administration, said that he did not have any knowledge of Russell going to flight ground school in Alaska, where Russell lived before moving to Oregon and, later, Washington. He also never saw Russell use a flight simulator and did not know how he figured out how to fly the Bombardier Q400 plane.

“For us it was a shock that he would be able to take off in that,” Mike Criss, a resident of Wasilla, Alaska, who has known Russell for more than two decades, told the Anchorage Daily News on Monday.
‘Video games’? Pilots wonder how plane thief learned to do aerial acrobatics

This is interesting information. Also, I continue to feel so bad for his wife. To have her husband watered down to "plane thief." And I know, it's accurate and he did it to himself. I just can't imagine how that feels to her. She spent, what, 6-7 or more years living with and loving this guy?

One other thing I've been thinking about, in terms of his age and him sort of being lost in life, is that it doesn't seem like he had a very definite plan for after college, does it? He went into the bakery business because his wife is a pastry chef. Then they moved to be closer to his wife's family and he got a job at the airport. Probably not the job he wanted, but the one he could get. I just am not sure I see anything in him that was setting goals and going for them, you know? I wonder how much part the depression played in that.

 

[PaulR]

This is interesting information. Also, I continue to feel so bad for his wife. To have her husband watered down to "plane thief." And I know, it's accurate and he did it to himself. I just can't imagine how that feels to her. She spent, what, 6-7 or more years living with and loving this guy?

One other thing I've been thinking about, in terms of his age and him sort of being lost in life, is that it doesn't seem like he had a very definite plan for after college, does it? He went into the bakery business because his wife is a pastry chef. Then they moved to be closer to his wife's family and he got a job at the airport. Probably not the job he wanted, but the one he could get. I just am not sure I see anything in him that was setting goals and going for them, you know? I wonder how much part the depression played in that.

Which makes me think - trouble in paradise? He didn't mention his wife during the flight at all.

 

[Doghairrules]

Which makes me think - trouble in paradise? He didn't mention his wife during the flight at all.

It could be. Or it could be that it's hard to hold on to those you love most when you're actively suicidal, which I've described before. So I can see that going either way.

 

[enelram]

This is interesting information. Also, I continue to feel so bad for his wife. To have her husband watered down to "plane thief." And I know, it's accurate and he did it to himself. I just can't imagine how that feels to her. She spent, what, 6-7 or more years living with and loving this guy?

One other thing I've been thinking about, in terms of his age and him sort of being lost in life, is that it doesn't seem like he had a very definite plan for after college, does it? He went into the bakery business because his wife is a pastry chef. Then they moved to be closer to his wife's family and he got a job at the airport. Probably not the job he wanted, but the one he could get. I just am not sure I see anything in him that was setting goals and going for them, you know? I wonder how much part the depression played in that.

Good thoughts- I agree w/ you- Possibly wife was the go-getter
and he was the supporting role..?? Maybe he had no real skills or education
to improve his employment situation and knew he was at a dead end job-wise. If he was a bright guy he knew this and it was
weighing on him, especially if money was tight at home.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

This situation has sent me lost in thought. There are/were too many variables that none/I will understand. Again, I’m so comforted he didn’t physically hurt anyone else. I’m thinking of you Paul.

 

[Doghairrules]

O/T My therapist told me today that I have to stop following news like this so closely so that I can take better care of myself. She was horrified that I was up until almost 3 a.m. Friday night following this story.

I'm going to miss my therapist. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[luv2run]

I am really curious to hear what went on at the airline

it almost seemed like the atc tape might have cut off right after he said the white comment

There is a beginning... Why wouldnt it still be up on liveATC? In the late morning the morning after this first happened, the entire ATC archives were still intact. I dont see why it wouldnt still be there? You just have to listen to all the other ATC chatter going on then as well, is all. That is why it is "coming out in pieces" essentially. It isall out there already entirely, but to go through hours of ATC convo and paste together just the soundbytes from ONE plane always takes a good bit of time. I would do it, but I am not good enough with technology to know how to cut up the ATC recordings (which are public record and available to be listened to live).

 

[Breezie]

Seattle plane hijacker may have been trying to emulate his pilot grandfather | Daily Mail Online

some family background here

Could his grandfather have given him some flying lessons?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Beautiful post, Rose, especially your last few lines.

“I remember 29 years old... It is a crossroad time.

I remember in my own experience having the world all figured out at 18 years old, and then Blam, Pow, Zoom! ...Omg...

There were some dark reckonings, troubled waters, and valleys to cross.”
BBM

The song “Many Rivers to Cross” by Jimmy Cliff came into my mind and wouldn’t leave.

Cliff was 21 when he wrote and recorded it and he says:

“I was struggling, with work, life, my identity, I couldn’t find my place; frustration fuelled the song.”

“It became a classic, because everyone can relate to it, everyone at some point asks ‘Who am I? Why am I here? What am I going to do?’ ”
Jimmy Cliff interview: 'I still have many rivers to cross'

For Rich, and anyone else who may have been asking these questions...A beautiful version from Cliff’s SNL appearance in 1975...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Lilibet, thank you, hon...

Oh I love Jimmy Cliff. How did you know?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

This song got me through some days...

 

[rosemadderlake]

Does anyone across the planet really think that all people and expert aviation folks who find what transpired incredible really believe that the majority of us that fall into that category think he is hero?

Of course not - the story became a international story because of the event in its entirety

Obviously wildy bright ( does that equate to a hero - no it is observation born out of reports)

Was his humor wicked - indeed ( does that equate to a hero - of course not)

DId he successfully engage in flying skills that a Q400 is not designed for (indeed - does that make him a hero - no )

Was his repeated desire not to harm anyone carried out . It was. (does that make him a hero - of course not)

Jack the Ripper is folklore.

Charles Manson is folklore

DB Cooper is folklore

Is any saying that Manson and the Ripper are heros? No

Will the 10th be remembered in aviation histroy for eternity - for sure . The DB Cooper deal lives on . There is a huge thread here.

Does Jon Bonet and Casey anthony live in infamy - they do

does that translate to others truly believing that lots of people think they are heros. Of course not.

For lack of a better word , is it "better" that he did not grab a machine gun and go mutilate as many as he could - well certainly.

The notion that those of us found him endearing and a sweet funny person that went into dark places - mean a hero no.

For those of us who have lived in clinical depression know his darkness - yes. Do most of us want to go grab a machine gun or a aircraft and crash it - of course not.

The event captivated the world for reason outlined above

just to make sure we all are communicating - is a hero? No he is not hero


Perhaps it is vocation. Every mass shooter and their families I have felt for..

Both can be felt in the same universe - that does not translate to anything other than feeling for fellow homspaians

He is not a hero .

What he did do -- was realize his fantasy- did he do it "properly" of course not.

Are humans flawed , of course.


at the end of the day some people were late , an insurance company has a write off -its far better than scooping body parts off the floor as the result of a machine gun or being squished to death by a vehicle , or decapitated by a knife ...just the times guys just the times.........................................

jmo..........

Damn, preach it Cariis.

This child could be my son, my brother, my love...

His comedic take on the life on the Tarmac... SNL worthy.

The sweetness of him with the ATC. The honesty.

The loss.

Not everyone who does something so stupid, so dangerous touches the heart.

But he rings my chimes. Touches me deeply.

Right or wrong, for the rest of my life, I'll never forget what he did. Against the backdrop of a pastel sundown...

His mama orca let go of her baby, and her grief... She's gonna be ok.

I so wish he had found another way, but that is for us earthbound earthlings to ponder why.

 

[Breezie]

http://mynorthwest.com/1078867/richard-russell-friend/?


http://mynorthwest.com/1078601/richard-beebo-russell-background/?