GUILTY Wa - Pat Shunn, 45, & Monique Patenaude, 46, Arlington, 11 April 2016 *arrests*

[ANZAC]

I'm not familiar with Washington State at all, but what are the chances these two fugitives made it into Canada before it was even realized that the couple had been harmed ?

Very unlikely. Canada is pretty tough on letting people with criminal history in. Yes they have access to the records. I've had friends turned away over years old bad check utterance.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Not over a legitimate border crossing. Their criminal histories make them ineligible to even visit Canada. And the agents at the WA crossings strictly enforce this. People with 15yr old DUI's can't cross in on day trips. Also, if going to Canada from Arlington, it'd make more sense to travel north. The border is only an hour away. A route through Ellensburg doesn't make much sense. If they were found there though, Canada would send them back without incident.


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Native of WA currently living in Canada, so this caught my eye. First, this case is just horrible Been following from the beginning but haven't really had much to add.

I wasn't sure about the border crossing for convicted felons, but it's something I've heard forever. Plus, if they were spotted in Ellensburg, they were going the wrong way to head up to BC. It would have made much more sense to just head up I-5. Not likely they headed for Canada.

 

[brandi]

Not over a legitimate border crossing. Their criminal histories make them ineligible to even visit Canada. And the agents at the WA crossings strictly enforce this. People with 15yr old DUI's can't cross in on day trips. Also, if going to Canada from Arlington, it'd make more sense to travel north. The border is only an hour away. A route through Ellensburg doesn't make much sense. If they were found there though, Canada would send them back without incident.


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One route they could take Ellensburg thru Blewett Pass, passed Wenatchee and up 97 through Chelan county to Republic and then to Penticton.... All those small-time smuggler weirdos know how to cross the border around those parts (I assume)

 

[MU42M]

One route they could take Ellensburg thru Blewett Pass, passed Wenatchee and up 97 through Chelan county to Republic and then to Penticton.... All those small-time smuggler weirdos know how to cross the border around those parts (I assume)

Maybe smugglers have better connections than the average person, because my in-laws use that crossing frequently with the same results we see at the Peace Arch crossing here. Their neighbor couldn't cross over with them once due a misdemeanor assault charge from when he was 19! He's now nearly 50. I guess it's always up to the individual agent though. I once saw an agent let an older couple cross on foot with no identification because they said they just wanted to go for a walk. I don't know if these brothers would get the same lenience though.


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[Blondie in Spokane]

I live a couple hundred miles south of the Canadian border and have only used border crossings occasionally. Wouldn't it be possible to ditch the car under tree branches and other cover and hike across the border via the woods? I know it has happened in the past and feel that these two could easily have accessed Canada in that manner. There is so much wooded, forested area that is uninhabited and not patrolled - seems like it would have been quite easy for them, especially since they had a four day lead.

ETA: I realize that they would only be able to carry a couple backpacks with supplies but they could be hiding out in any uninhabited cabin and go unnoticed for a good period of time

 

[ANZAC]

A woman named Sherry Brewer, and her husband, may have been the last to hear from John Reed. Apparently Reed told them that he was in Ellensburg at a Subway. He was supposed to be at his old residence, as Sherry and her husband were there to help him tear it down (because the county had purchased it on March 30th.) She talked to him on Thursday and he said that he was in Oso the day before, and then left for Ellensburg (the same day S/P were reported missing.)

I can imagine that Reed was really charged up facing the prospect of tearing down a house that he obviously cared a lot about and had lived in for nearly 20 years. Maybe charged up enough to confront his neighbors one last time?

Can you just imagine if the Reed brothers were in Ellensburg on Thursday, and here it is the following Monday, that they would have had a four day head start on figuring out where to hide! That's sort of terrifying!

Starts at about 1:30
http://www.king5.com/news/crime/sheriff-update-on-missing-couple/139031723

BBM One of the articles said a vehicle belonging to one of the brothers was found in Ellensburg on Saturday, so LE has been working on this ahead of the media release. The media release means they need the public's help and I assume that means they have almost run out of leads in finding them. There are a lot of campgrounds and good places to hide near Ellensburg, assuming the Reeds didn't keep heading further away.

<modsnip>

 

[MU42M]

I live a couple hundred miles south of the Canadian border and have only used border crossings occasionally. Wouldn't it be possible to ditch the car under tree branches and other cover and hike across the border via the woods? I know it has happened in the past and feel that these two could easily have accessed Canada in that manner. There is so much wooded, forested area that is uninhabited and not patrolled - seems like it would have been quite easy for them, especially since they had a four day lead.

ETA: I realize that they would only be able to carry a couple backpacks with supplies but they could be hiding out in any uninhabited cabin and go unnoticed for a good period of time

Yes, you could totally cross over on foot without a car. Just seems like they could accomplish the same type of hiding out in the U.S. so I don't see any reason they'd choose Canada. But maybe they thought they'd be less likely to get caught there?


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[ANZAC]

I live a couple hundred miles south of the Canadian border and have only used border crossings occasionally. Wouldn't it be possible to ditch the car under tree branches and other cover and hike across the border via the woods? I know it has happened in the past and feel that these two could easily have accessed Canada in that manner. There is so much wooded, forested area that is uninhabited and not patrolled - seems like it would have been quite easy for them, especially since they had a four day lead.

ETA: I realize that they would only be able to carry a couple backpacks with supplies but they could be hiding out in any uninhabited cabin and go unnoticed for a good period of time

US-Canada border security has been really stepped up due to 9/11, drug smuggling etc. There is electronic surveillance along most of the border now.
Heading towards a border would be very high risk for them. It is more likely they're still in the US somewhere.

 

[eucalyptuz]

A wife and kid were mentioned in the 2014 Oso article about JR's lucky escape from the mudslide...would you just run and go wild or cross an international border with those connections? I guess many felons do. I wish we knew more about the criminal past of the brothers...'arrests going back to the 90's' ... What does that mean? Nothing recent? And the shoe-repair brother?!? Well that article didn't really paint the guy as America's most vicious.

I think this was a situation of a pot simmering for a few years and then boiling over...I think this is what may have gone down:
-The S/Ps buy a remote hobby farm on 20 acres. Idyllic, few neighbors, cul-de-sac. They have privacy except for the comings and goings of a few neighbors that access their properties via the access track at the boundary of the S/P property.
-The mudslide strikes. Some properties lose much of their land to the river, some are buried. There is much media attention. The access track is increasingly busy and also partially buried, forcing users on to the S/Ps land. Legal action is taken.
-Some parcels of land are bought up by the Snohomish County following the slide, resulting in fewer and fewer folk having justified access to this eastern end of Whitlam rd.
-One parcel of land previously reclaimed by Snomish county is recently sold to residents who own other properties further west along Whitlam road (with connections to a property rights freedom group?).
-Suddenly, there is an increase of traffic using the access track and the property on the river.
-This continues...the brothers are coming and going to a property that is no longer theirs, using access that crosses further into the PS's land, other residents of the area coming and going to a property parcel that has no house on it and was possibly/probably purchased by a co-op of anti-gov, anti-regulation, property-freedom fighters.
-and Guns. It seems people had guns. Tensions high, threats are made. A final emotion-fueled confrontation? And Guns.
(Just my speculations)

There won't be a happy ending here, that much we know.

 

[brandi]

BBM One of the articles said a vehicle belonging to one of the brothers was found in Ellensburg on Saturday, so LE has been working on this ahead of the media release. The media release means they need the public's help and I assume that means they have almost run out of leads in finding them. There are a lot of campgrounds and good places to hide near Ellensburg, assuming the Reeds didn't keep heading further away.

I wonder if the parents will be charged with aiding them?

Ack! this is my summer stomping grounds!

 

[ninij9]

A wife and kid were mentioned in the 2014 Oso article about JR's lucky escape from the mudslide...would you just run and go wild or cross an international border with those connections? I guess many felons do. I wish we knew more about the criminal past of the brothers...'arrests going back to the 90's' ... What does that mean? Nothing recent? And the shoe-repair brother?!? Well that article didn't really paint the guy as America's most vicious.

I think this was a situation of a pot simmering for a few years and then boiling over...I think this is what may have gone down:
-The S/Ps buy a remote hobby farm on 20 acres. Idyllic, few neighbors, cul-de-sac. They have privacy except for the comings and goings of a few neighbors that access their properties via the access track at the boundary of the S/P property.
-The mudslide strikes. Some properties lose much of their land to the river, some are buried. There is much media attention. The access track is increasingly busy and also partially buried, forcing users on to the S/Ps land. Legal action is taken.
-Some parcels of land are bought up by the Snohomish County following the slide, resulting in fewer and fewer folk having justified access to this eastern end of Whitlam rd.
-One parcel of land previously reclaimed by Snomish county is recently sold to residents who own other properties further west along Whitlam road (with connections to a property rights freedom group?).
-Suddenly, there is an increase of traffic using the access track and the property on the river.
-This continues...the brothers are coming and going to a property that is no longer theirs, using access that crosses further into the PS's land, other residents of the area coming and going to a property parcel that has no house on it and was possibly/probably purchased by a co-op of anti-gov, anti-regulation, property-freedom fighters.
-and Guns. It seems people had guns. Tensions high, threats are made. A final emotion-fueled confrontation? And Guns.
(Just my speculations)

There won't be a happy ending here, that much we know.

Thanks to you Eucalyptus, this post is very good and helps me to understand a bit more what this couple was dealing with.

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[ANZAC]

-and Guns. It seems people had guns. Tensions high, threats are made. A final emotion-fueled confrontation? And Guns.

snip by me -- looks like both sides of this have guns (based on Facebook pictures of the victims out shooting recreationally. Many people in this area have guns. And cars. And tractors....

More importantly, the suspects are felons with guns. (LE says armed and dangerous)

I'm a bit fascinated by all the comments that paint the area as a backwoods area. All the people I interacted with at Oso, Arlington, Darrington during the SR530 slide aftermath seemed like decent folk who care about each other. Like every part of the world, there will be dirtbags, like these two suspects.

And is the area any worse than some of the inner city areas where there are drugs and almost daily murders?

If there is a connection to this case -- then the comments are relevant.

 

[brandi]

A wife and kid were mentioned in the 2014 Oso article about JR's lucky escape from the mudslide...would you just run and go wild or cross an international border with those connections? I guess many felons do. I wish we knew more about the criminal past of the brothers...'arrests going back to the 90's' ... What does that mean? Nothing recent? And the shoe-repair brother?!? Well that article didn't really paint the guy as America's most vicious.

I think this was a situation of a pot simmering for a few years and then boiling over...I think this is what may have gone down:
-The S/Ps buy a remote hobby farm on 20 acres. Idyllic, few neighbors, cul-de-sac. They have privacy except for the comings and goings of a few neighbors that access their properties via the access track at the boundary of the S/P property.
-The mudslide strikes. Some properties lose much of their land to the river, some are buried. There is much media attention. The access track is increasingly busy and also partially buried, forcing users on to the S/Ps land. Legal action is taken.
-Some parcels of land are bought up by the Snohomish County following the slide, resulting in fewer and fewer folk having justified access to this eastern end of Whitlam rd.
-One parcel of land previously reclaimed by Snomish county is recently sold to residents who own other properties further west along Whitlam road (with connections to a property rights freedom group?).
-Suddenly, there is an increase of traffic using the access track and the property on the river.
-This continues...the brothers are coming and going to a property that is no longer theirs, using access that crosses further into the PS's land, other residents of the area coming and going to a property parcel that has no house on it and was possibly/probably purchased by a co-op of anti-gov, anti-regulation, property-freedom fighters.
-and Guns. It seems people had guns. Tensions high, threats are made. A final emotion-fueled confrontation? And Guns.
(Just my speculations)

There won't be a happy ending here, that much we know.

Yes, spot on from what I've read of legal docs that have been posted... I think Monique was totally ambushed by these crazy losers because she seemed to be able handle her guns. Makes me so sad...:-(

 

[ANZAC]

Ack! this is my summer stomping grounds!

Mine as well, summer camping, poking around etc.

 

[Lilibet]

A wife and kid were mentioned in the 2014 Oso article about JR's lucky escape from the mudslide...would you just run and go wild or cross an international border with those connections? I guess many felons do. I wish we knew more about the criminal past of the brothers...'arrests going back to the 90's' ... What does that mean? Nothing recent? And the shoe-repair brother?!? Well that article didn't really paint the guy as America's most vicious.

I think this was a situation of a pot simmering for a few years and then boiling over...I think this is what may have gone down:
-The S/Ps buy a remote hobby farm on 20 acres. Idyllic, few neighbors, cul-de-sac. They have privacy except for the comings and goings of a few neighbors that access their properties via the access track at the boundary of the S/P property.
-The mudslide strikes. Some properties lose much of their land to the river, some are buried. There is much media attention. The access track is increasingly busy and also partially buried, forcing users on to the S/Ps land. Legal action is taken.
-Some parcels of land are bought up by the Snohomish County following the slide, resulting in fewer and fewer folk having justified access to this eastern end of Whitlam rd.
-One parcel of land previously reclaimed by Snomish county is recently sold to residents who own other properties further west along Whitlam road (with connections to a property rights freedom group?).
-Suddenly, there is an increase of traffic using the access track and the property on the river.
-This continues...the brothers are coming and going to a property that is no longer theirs, using access that crosses further into the PS's land, other residents of the area coming and going to a property parcel that has no house on it and was possibly/probably purchased by a co-op of anti-gov, anti-regulation, property-freedom fighters.
-and Guns. It seems people had guns. Tensions high, threats are made. A final emotion-fueled confrontation? And Guns.
(Just my speculations)

There won't be a happy ending here, that much we know.

I think your assessment is probably very close to the mark. I don't think this was initially pre-planned by the brothers. The emotion-fueled confrontation could have escalated while Monique was simply walking her dog. It doesn't take much for a situation to go south in an instant when tempers are high and guns are present. If she was killed by one of the brothers (perhaps Tony, the one who has the more violent record), they would have felt they had to kill Pat. That part would have been planned and taken place when Pat got home from work on Monday. It would have been a busy night...hiding vehicles and bodies and driving to Ellensburg. But I don't think they had time to plan an elaborate, survivalist getaway...especially in their parents' small red car.

I'm just surprised that they were still in Ellensburg on Thursday. I imagine they were monitoring the news and SM. So as soon as the cars were found, they took off. I hope they are hiding with friends who will turn them in. But if they can convince the friends that Pat and Monique were trying to take away their rights, it may be a long wait.
JMO

 

[steelman]

Not over a legitimate border crossing. Their criminal histories make them ineligible to even visit Canada. And the agents at the WA crossings strictly enforce this. People with 15yr old DUI's can't cross in on day trips. Also, if going to Canada from Arlington, it'd make more sense to travel north. The border is only an hour away. A route through Ellensburg doesn't make much sense. If they were found there though, Canada would send them back without incident.


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Thanks for the answer. I don't know much about getting into Canada what with the passports and criminal background checks and all. It sounds like it would be too much of a hassle to even attempt if you were a fugitive on the run. In contrast, you have Mexico which just about anybody can walk into or drive into without being questioned or even looked at.

So if sneaking into Canada would be too much trouble, then what would their most likely destination be ? I think a lot of people would expect them to try and hide in the woods, but I'm not so sure about that. I'm thinking more along the lines of hiding in plain sight.

For instance, they could drive south into California and head to a highly populated urban area. The murders would not have been as highly publicized, there's a million red cars on the streets, and the average person living there wouldn't bother to look at them twice. It's possible that law enforcement wouldn't even be on the lookout for them if it didn't include running their plates during a traffic stop or something similar. I think both of these guys are smarter enough to steer clear of family and friends.

More than likely it's going to be a motorist or a suspicious motel clerk that calls this in sooner or later, if they can recognize them from photographs. If they decide to split up, it's going to make it even harder. I think both of them trying to alter their appearance is a given. They had a four day head start, they could be almost anywhere by now. I think they'll stay in the West though.

 

[Lilibet]

snip by me -- looks like both sides of this have guns (based on Facebook pictures of the victims out shooting recreationally. Many people in this area have guns. And cars. And tractors....

More importantly, the suspects are felons with guns. (LE says armed and dangerous)

I'm a bit fascinated by all the comments that paint the area as a backwoods area. All the people I interacted with at Oso, Arlington, Darrington during the SR530 slide aftermath seemed like decent folk who care about each other. Like every part of the world, there will be dirtbags, like these two suspects.

And is the area any worse than some of the inner city areas where there are drugs and almost daily murders?

If there is a connection to this case -- then the comments are relevant.

BBM

Of course there are lots of decent folks living in the area. And during a crisis, which is when you were there, the best in everyone usually comes out. Even the dirtbags and Sovereign Citizen types will pitch in and care about others. But there were clearly some with an agenda (Freedom County, etc) living there. And that's why the comments are relevant. When people have an ideology that allows them to be violent, they are much more dangerous than regular dirtbags or inner city criminals. Their violence (or threat of it) is for a "higher cause." We don't know yet which category the Reed brothers fit into yet, but having background information about an area is very helpful, not intended to insult the regular locals.
JMO

 

[DaleTray]

I'm not familiar with Washington State at all, but what are the chances these two fugitives made it into Canada before it was even realized that the couple had been harmed ? I mean sure, after a manhunt began LE would have notified border security to be on the lookout for the red car, but they didn't know for sure what happened to this couple up until just a couple of days ago. Pat and Monique were reported missing almost a full week ago, which would have given the Reed brothers plenty of time to make their way out of the country before LE was able to piece things together. Shunns brother was proclaiming from the very beginning that one of their neighbors was missing and held the answers to their disappearance. I don't know how seriously law enforcement took that, but I know there were a few people in this forum that were poo-poo'ing the entire idea.

I'm not saying that these two isolationist couldn't have gone out into the wilderness, camouflaged the car, and started leading the life of mountain men. However, if one was to decide that it was time to go live off the land and pretend to be Grizzly Adams, you would need plenty of gear, shelter, fuel, and camping supplies in order to do it for very long. I really can't see them getting all of the required necessities into a 2-door Volkswagen coupe, not to mention the need for items such as ATV's and snowmobiles.

Since these murders appear to be somewhat premeditated, I have to assume that their escape was premeditated as well. "After we kill these two and hide their cars, this is where we're gonna go"..........

If they did make it across the border, would the Canadian government ship them back pretty readily or would they make it a big hassle ?

They probably didn't have to go off-grid into the wilderness. Hide the red car in a barn and borrow a friends car or even buy a hoopty off of Craigslist to get them to Canada. Find a cheap house to rent with the newly acquired $244K

 

[Coquette]

Can you see the new comments?

Yes, "Isolationist." I know this area is known for the making of meth and weed grows, so I'd be curious to know if part of the isolation and need for privacy has anything to do with protecting a drug business. It would certainly explain not wanting to go to court. Again, no plaintiffs, no court case. It sadly appears it worked.

 

[Lilibet]

They probably didn't have to go off-grid into the wilderness. Hide the red car in a barn and borrow a friends car or even buy a hoopty off of Craigslist to get them to Canada. Find a cheap house to rent with the newly acquired $244K

Since Canada is really strict about who they allow in the country, I think they would find it easier to do what you describe in the U.S. There are plenty of isolated places they could go, or as Steleman suggested, a larger city where they could blend in. Whitey Bulger hung out in plain sight in SoCal and Santa Monica CA for years.