WA WA - Susanna Stodden, 56, & Mary Cooper, 27, Pinnacle Lake, 11 Jul 2006

[Pensfan]

July 11th was when the murders occurred. The trail was shut down and reopened 2 days later on the 13th. On the 13th or 14th, David and his two daughters went hiking not far from the crime scene.


After conducting their initial investigation, SCSD allowed the trail and road to be reopened on July 13. The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported the trail that day was “open, muddy and deserted.”
The trail was closed two days later and then reopened on July 21. The question on many observers’ minds, especially a group of hikers discussing the issue on www.nwhikers.com is: why was the trail reopened and then closed again? There were reports that some hikers had visited the crime scene between the two closures.
http://www.wta.org/magazine/1207.pdf


Were the hikers that visited the crime scene David and his daughters?

 

[Pensfan]

On Friday (three days after their relatives were murdered) David Stodden and his two surviving daughters hiked the area and urged others to do the same.
"Don't be afraid of getting out there.”
http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4191966.html

WTH? Three days after their family members were brutally executed on a forest hiking trail, the killer had not been caught, and they told others to not be afraid to hike on that forest trail.

What makes David and his daughters positively certain that this killer won’t kill others on the trail?

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Good question Pensfan!

(thanks for the links!)

 

[~n/t~]

Killing his wife (as we've seen in so many other cases) sounds probable but why would he kill his daughter? Assuming he is the one responsible.

I haven't followed this case and just now reading up on it. A poster mentioned they knew who the killer was but can't prove it. Is there a serial killer in Washington State? Was Fowler already dead when this crime occurred?

Were these women sexually assaulted?

TIA

 

[TGIRecovered]

Three days after the murders, David and his two other daughters, Elisa, 24, and Joanna, 21, hiked a trail not far from the crime scene, as a way of confronting the terror that had come into their lives. "We went to a lake nearby, and Joanna and I went for a swim and it was a really beautiful day," says Elisa. "We felt it was important to go where we were afraid to go."
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20061488,00.html[/quote]

If the murderer followed the women to the trail and lay in wait somewhere to ambush them, maybe he took a slightly different route or shortcut to get ahead of them. The human mind being what it is, he probably went over and over his actions that day in his mind as the investigators combed the crime scene. One great way to explain any accidental evidence left behind would be to return to a trail nearby to leave multiple footprints, trace evidence or scent trails to muddy up any clues they might have found.

The article says that the dad and the girls hiked a nearby trail but how does the reporter know exactly where they went? Maybe the trails overlapped or maybe the girls did not know enough about the crime to tell the difference if Dad took them over part of the same route the Mom and sister took that day. We can assume at the time that LE may have known the route the women took, but only the murderer would have known the exact route he took unless tracking dogs had already been used.

:moo:

 

[Pensfan]

Killing his wife (as we've seen in so many other cases) sounds probable but why would he kill his daughter? Assuming he is the one responsible.

I haven't followed this case and just now reading up on it. A poster mentioned they knew who the killer was but can't prove it. Is there a serial killer in Washington State? Was Fowler already dead when this crime occurred?

Were these women sexually assaulted?

TIA

No, they weren't sexually assaulted or robbed. Another weird thing is that the person who found them dead stated that when he walked up to the women on the trail, he thought they were just slumped over. I am not sure what that means, but it doesn't sound as if the women were hiking and shot while standing up. This person also said he couldn't identify if they were dead men or women. IMO, this means they were sitting and slumped forward after they were shot. This wasn't an ambush, but an execution.

I wonder what the life insurance was on Mary.

 

[Pensfan]

When the reward funds were set up to find the killer of Mary and Susanna, the attorney put in a clause about where the money would be donated if this crime wasn't solved in 6 or 7 years (I can't remember if it was 6 or 7.) The 6 years have almost expired and the reward money will be given to two charities. Without reward money, Mary's and Susanna's killer may never go to jail.

 

[Pensfan]

Below is an excellent article written by a Univ. of Washington professor Joseph Weis. He is known as Seattle’s murder authority and he discusses this case. Prof. Weis has one of the most popular courses at the UW—Soc 275, “Murder.” Over the last 15 years, it grew from a seminar serving about 15 seniors to a wildly popular class filling the main floor of the UW’s largest lecture hall.



Yet another misconception, he says, is that the murderer is a monster—a Hannibal Lecter.

Most murderers, he says, are like “normal” people. “Murder is a crime of passion. It is often the only violent act committed in their life and maybe their last one.”

“It’s an impulsive act,” adds Keppel. “Many of the people have never been in trouble before. In most cases, your murder offenders are pretty clean criminally.”
http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/march07/content/view/14/1/
http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/march07/content/view/14/1/1/2/

 

[Robin Hood]

How recently did you speak with law enforcement?

During the course of a case open as long as this one, the investigators change. Why don't you make an appointment with someone in charge? Gather all the information you have with notes about who you suspect & why. Perhaps the knowledge you bring may fill in the gaps of what they already know.

I believe Cluznar thinks it's Gareth S. Penn

Edited to add

http://www.helium.com/items/1844911-zodiac-killer-identified.

 

[Pensfan]

[/url]

If the murderer followed the women to the trail and lay in wait somewhere to ambush them, maybe he took a slightly different route or shortcut to get ahead of them. The human mind being what it is, he probably went over and over his actions that day in his mind as the investigators combed the crime scene. One great way to explain any accidental evidence left behind would be to return to a trail nearby to leave multiple footprints, trace evidence or scent trails to muddy up any clues they might have found.

The article says that the dad and the girls hiked a nearby trail but how does the reporter know exactly where they went? Maybe the trails overlapped or maybe the girls did not know enough about the crime to tell the difference if Dad took them over part of the same route the Mom and sister took that day. We can assume at the time that LE may have known the route the women took, but only the murderer would have known the exact route he took unless tracking dogs had already been used.

:moo:

bbm
ITA. It is bizarre that David went back into those woods 3 days after his wife and daughter were shot and murdered. It is extremely bizarre that he endangered his two living daughter's lives by taking them with him into the woods. The killer might still be there.

National parks/forests have very few LE officers. If they were attacked by the killer, no one would be near to help. For some reason, David Stodden felt comfortable that the killer was no longer a danger to his living daughters.

 

[Pensfan]

Sometime within 4.5 months of his wife and daughter's death, David Stodden had wooden floors installed in his home. (more weird)

This was written the December, following his ten day trip to Hawaii, after the July murders.

Stodden hosted a holiday party for family and friends.
He called it the memorial reunion and dance party, intended in part to
bring together people who attended a memorial for the two women shortly
after they were killed.
The new hardwood floor provided the perfect surface for dancing and
music.
The mood wasn't somber. They played soul and African music -- the latter
a favorite of his wife and daughter.
"The idea was to get a lot of good energy into the house," Stodden said.
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2006-12/msg02806.html

 

[Pensfan]

This is odd. David Stodden told People Magazine that 3 days after his wife and daughter were murdered that he and his daughters hiked a trail not far from the crime scene. David told the Seattle Times something completely different. He told the Seattle Times that 3 days after the murders he drove to the trail, got out of the car, and realized that there wasn’t much to see except crime tape. He then returned to his car and his waiting family and drove away.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2003128479_hikersslain15m.html?syndication=rss

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20061488,00.html

 

[bessie]

Stodden and Cooper were mother and daughter.

Who killed two hikers near Mt. Pilchuck?

By Brian Alexander and Jennifer Sullivan
Seattle Times staff reporters
Thursday, July 13, 2006 - Page updated at 05:01 PM

... a note outside the home of one of the victims identifies them as Mary Cooper, [sic] 56, and Susanna Stodden, [sic] 27.

The pair were last seen alive at about 10 a.m. on a day hike to Pinnacle Lake, about 20 miles east of Granite Falls.
At about 2:30 p.m., another hiker called 911 after he discovered the bodies a couple of miles up the popular trail near the lake.
The Sheriff's Office declined to talk about their cause of death, other than to say the pair died by "homicidal violence."

Serial killer Keyes: ‘I would let them (victims) come to me in a remote area’

by James Lynch, Q13-FOX
December 4, 2012

“Keyes admitted to murdering four people in Washington; he killed two people (independent of each other) sometime during 2005 and 2006, and murdered a couple in Washington between 2001 and 2005,” said the FBI office in Anchorage, Alaska.
Now the question is, could Keyes have killed Cooper, 56, and Stodden, 27, in 2006?

Read more: http://q13fox.com/2012/12/04/serial...ms-come-to-me-in-a-remote-area/#ixzz2dseK2THW​

The Pinnacle Lake murders don't fit Keyes' confessed murders precisely, but the confession shows he was active in the general area and timeframe. He lived in Neah Bay, WA, from 2001 until 2007, 195 miles (an afternoon drive for Keyes) from Pinnacle Lake and the Mount Pilchuck. He was also known to visit friends in Port Angeles, WA, a mere 124 miles from Mount Pilchuck.

GOOGLE MAP

2005 to 2006 (summer/fall months): Keyes admitted that he committed two murders independent of one another. Keyes used his boat to dispose of the bodies of these victims. Keyes stated at least one of the bodies was disposed of in Crescent Lake in Washington where he used anchors to submerge the body. Keyes reported the body was submerged in more than 100 feet of water. Keyes may have moved the victim’s car to place distance between where the vehicle was found and where the crime occurred. The identity of these victims is unknown.

http://www.fbi.gov/portland/press-r...istance-in-case-of-serial-killer-israel-keyes

Timelines *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[bessie]

Slain hikers were avid about outdoors
By SCOTT GUTIERREZ AND JON NAITO, P-I REPORTERS
Updated 10:00 pm, Thursday, July 13, 2006

Mystery in the Mountains
By Alex Tresniowski
People Magazine, July 31, 2006

Cast into the path of a killer
Tomas Alex Tizon | Times Staff Writer
March 10, 2007

Three years and no answers in slaying of hikers
By Jackson Holtz, Herald Writer
July 10, 2009

Double murder on mountain trail remains a mystery
by JAKE WHITTENBERG / KING5 News Posted on July 7, 2010 at 2:52 PM
Updated Wednesday, Jul 7 at 7:14 PM

After six years, mystery lingers about Pinnacle Lake trail murders
Dave Workman, Examiner
July 11, 2012

FBI hunting for Washington victims of self-professed serial killer
By Mike Carter
Seattle Times staff reporter
Originally published December 3, 2012 at 7:40 PM | Page modified December 4, 2012 at 9:47 AM

 

[CatFancier]

7 years after slayings of wife, daughter, heartache remains

http://heraldnet.com/article/201312...-slayings-of-wife-daughter-heartache-remains-

 

[bessie]

:bump:

 

[Pollyphonetic]

I am not going to name names but I know who had these murders committed. I have left tips with the Seattle PD as during the time of these murders I had financial dealings with the person I believe to have done this. I do not believe this person pulled the trigger but I do believe this person paid someone else to do this. I will tell you that the person I believed to have done this has had their name mentioned in this thread, that the motive of this killing was financial, and that numerous suspicious things were going on in the months leading up to these women being murdered. In fact Mary had received $3,000 or $4,000 in money orders just a day or two before this happened. When the person I know(in my gut) claimed this money had not been received, the fact that there was proof of the money orders was announced and it was never brought up again... However, numerous other strange monetary issues came up several times and when this person was told there was proof they always dropped it. This person was always partying every time we had to deal with them and their relationship would suggest they should have been grieving. The fact that the person I suspect was an odd duck is one thing but the things I saw with my own eyes affirm my beliefs that someday there will be an arrest made... Somewhere there is a money trail because I don't believe this person would have dirtied their own hands....

 

[Pollyphonetic]

I am not going to name names but I know who had these murders committed. I have left tips with the Seattle PD as during the time of these murders I had financial dealings with the person I believe to have done this. I do not believe this person pulled the trigger but I do believe this person paid someone else to do this. I will tell you that the person I believed to have done this has had their name mentioned in this thread, that the motive of this killing was financial, and that numerous suspicious things were going on in the months leading up to these women being murdered. In fact Mary had received $3,000 or $4,000 in money orders just a day or two before this happened. When the person I know(in my gut) claimed this money had not been received, the fact that there was proof of the money orders was announced and it was never brought up again... However, numerous other strange monetary issues came up several times and when this person was told there was proof they always dropped it. This person was always partying every time we had to deal with them and their relationship would suggest they should have been grieving. The fact that the person I suspect was an odd duck is one thing but the things I saw with my own eyes affirm my beliefs that someday there will be an arrest made... Somewhere there is a money trail because I don't believe this person would have dirtied their own hands....

this is of course all my opinions but some of this is fact

 

[Fiddlehead]

I've followed this case closely from the moment the mother and daughter were found dead on the Pinnacle Lake Trail. I know a lot of the comments in this thread are old but I'd like to address some of them anyway.
I've not hiked up the Mountain Loop Highway since it happened - it's too creepy. This area (Granite Falls) is known for meth labs and other general creepiness. Don't mean to be stereotyping but the area was settled by miners from Appalachia and it is sort of a backwoods area. It also happens to have some pretty spectacular wilderness trails.
To my knowledge, the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office has not even officially released whether or not the women were sexually assaulted, or what kind of gun was used. I'm not even sure if it's been 'officially' released that the women were shot. They've kept details very tight, or tried to.
The unofficial word is that they were shot with a handgun at close range.
It was not bear hunting season yet (not until August). Some people wonder that so I thought I'd make that clear.
They also (reportedly) sort of messed up the investigation in the early days by not securing the trail for evidence collection and by not bringing in the FBI.
David Stodden has not been ruled out as a suspect, as far as I know.
The bodies were not found at the trailhead, as is often erroneously reported. They were nearly two miles up the mountainous, forested trail. It's not an area where there are roads criss crossing the terrain, either. The only way to reach where they were was via the trail they were on. Had it been a weekend this trail would have been crowded but because it was a weekday there were only a few other hiking parties on the trail. The area was too far off a road and up a steep trail IMO to have been housing a meth lab or marijuana field, as I've heard speculated.
The family's behavior after the murder may seem eccentric and odd, but it didn't at the time to other hikers I knew. When the Dad and kids went back to the site, they weren't alone. There were others with them, and the first day they went back the Pinnacle Lake trail was closed so they hiked a nearby trail. There was so much immediate fear, that the family and many other hikers were trying to get out a "take back the trail" message to encourage hikers not to be intimidated to the point that they stayed away from our wilderness trails. It was actually very helpful.
They didn't do a traditional funeral and wake. A few weeks later the family held a big memorial service that drew hundreds of people.
For some reason, SCSO has more or less dismissed the idea that Israel Keyes is a suspect in this. Israel was in Neah Bay at the time and sometimes took overnight trips around the state, so he easily could have camped up in this area or gone on a day trip. He would have had to take a ferry across Puget Sound (unless he drove all the way around). The Washington State Ferry System does not log vehicles or license plates, unfortunately.

 

[OkieGranny]

http://skyvalleychronicle.com/GENER...DERS-9-YEARS-AGO-OF-WIFE-AND-DAUGHTER-2339159

David Stodden of Seattle has taken out a newspaper ad hoping it will spark renewed interest in the case and a tip to investigators about who committed the murders.

David Stodden told KCPQ-TV in Seattle that he remains consumed by grief over the loss and that the reason he took out the ad is because, "I am sure somebody must know something or have heard of something by now."

He said his wife and daughter had "no enemies at all," and that no one really knew where they were going because, "They changed their destination en route."