WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #4

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  • #1,201
If anyone needs help with translating Croatian I can definitely help out! I might need my mum for a few words though.
So far what has been translated for Ilija is correct.

Hi DaninOz, I sent a message to this website in Google Translate's version of Croatian which I can't verify as being understandable to any native Croatian speaker at all.

I'm completely convinced that this person is Lyle Stevik. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they are one and the same. This is why I sent a message to the Croatian Missing Persons Website.

If you feel confident that these two are a match also then please could you please send a message to them as well, in Croatian, just to be sure that they didn't dismiss it as spam (or worse!)?

The website address is

http://www.nestali.hr/default.aspx?id=22&osoba_id=1028

and the Grays Harbor Police Investigator's email address contact for this case (as per the Doe Network) is

[email protected]

Please include these case file numbers

Agency Case Number:
01-7870
NCIC Number:
U960002335

If you could include this email address (and the case file numbers) in your message that would be great, thanks.
 
  • #1,202
Hi Brett, I will send a message through. I will however definitely need my mum so she can help with the 'big' words ;).
Have you sent an email to the grays harbour PI? I wonder if they have more pull IYKWIM. It will be interesting as to what they have to say especially if they also see the resemblance?

ETA I have never sent an email like this before any tips on what I should say?
 
  • #1,203
Hi DaninOz,

Thanks for your reply and offer of help.

It's a first for me to be sending anything of this nature also and I honestly never thought that there's be any movement on this case, (ever!)

Let's hope that the Croatian and US authorities can get some co-ordinated investigative dialogue going on this case because I am certain that this is the same person, and from the responses I'm seeing here, I'm not the only one.

Your access to correct Croatian to English translation at this point in time may be of a critical nature in terms of helping to 'get the ball rolling'.

Yes, I have sent a message through (this morning AEDST) to the Grays Harbor authorities regarding this case and to the officer responsible for this case.
In terms of a suggestion as to what to write, I simply gave the US officer the case numbers which I quoted to you (which I sourced from the Lyle Stevik entry on The Doe Network (these numbers are the official database references that the police are using to reference this case in the US) and I added that I believed that this man 'Lyle Stevik' and this man 'Iilja Dukic', are the same person, then I included a link to the Croatian Missing Persons website

http://www.nestali.hr/default.aspx?id=22&osoba_id=1028

Perhaps, in Croatian, a letter like this would be good,

'Dear Sir,
I believe that this man, Ilija Dukic, a missing person advertised as missing here,

http://www.nestali.hr/default.aspx?id=22&osoba_id=1028

is this unidentified man, found deceased in the US in 2001, and going under the name of 'Lyle Stevik'.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/233umwa.html

Please see this forum post from 'Websleuths' to compare side by side enlargements of pictures of both men.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tevik-quot-Grays-Harbor-17-Sept-2001-4/page48

If you wish to contact the officer in charge of this case in the US, he is: Steve Shumate

email: [email protected]

and the case reference numbers are:

Agency Case Number:
01-7870
NCIC Number:
U960002335

Thank you,
(your name)'
 
  • #1,204
Just as a heads up for those who are in the FB group - from now on I will be doing profile checks on requests (and co-admins, I recommend this as well) due to the occasional spammer (yes, unfortunately). I don't want to sound invasive, but I want to spot the genuine from the shameless.

I don't think there is a way around the spammers unless the group is exclusive to WS members & you ask people for their WS name or ask how long they've followed Lyle; then ask a question or 2. I doubt the spammers will answer
 
  • #1,205
I translated the information for Ilija Dukic View attachment 69795 through Google translator (so far that is the only website that I have found that can translate Croatian even though some of the phrases it comes up with don't sound quite right https://translate.google.com/) and it seems like the information given is minimal (his "personal description" was left blank :pullhair:) --


There were a few entries that I saved as pdfs from the website, two are possibilities for "Lyle Stevik" (the others were either for the suicide victim at the El Rancho Hotel in Las Vegas or the man who hung himself from a billboard in Las Vegas) --

Antun Petricic View attachment 69796 (whose information also seems quite limited) -- http://www.nestali.hr/default.aspx?id=22&osoba_id=1383

Boris Medved View attachment 69797 (also limited information) -- http://www.nestali.hr/default.aspx?id=22&osoba_id=2281

How did He get from Croatia to Washington state? How will his case worker get the rule out? There has to be a good argument for submitting people from other countries before actually submitting.
 
  • #1,206
I have also noted when studying these images that Lyle's head is tilted slightly to the right, whereas Ilija's is tilted more to the left, so his ear appears to be angled back more than it actually would have been IRL, as far as I can make out.

I have also noted that the ears, (from what is visible) on both subjects are identically shaped, right down to where the hairline of his sideburns reach his ears in both Ilija's and Lyle's pictures.

The more I study these two images the more certain I am that they are the same person, for example
the bump on the ridge of the nose (on our right),
the chin shape, the jawline, the eyes, their shape and location below the center of the eyebrows.
The cheekbones and then their distance from his jaw and the relation of these to each other in length...

The positioning of each of his features when examined in micronite detail are, to me as, are so exactly placed as to be map like copies of one another.
 
  • #1,207
How did He get from Croatia to Washington state? How will his case worker get the rule out? There has to be a good argument for submitting people from other countries before actually submitting.

During the civil War in Croatia a number of people went 'missing', so it's not unfeasible that he somehow made his way out of Croatia, traveled across Europe and then made his way to the US using various ports with a false passport.
Perhaps he came across a large sum of money, or something of great value which he was able to use to fund his escape?

If Ilija was, (as shown in the picture on the Croatian missing persons website where he is shown wearing a uniform), an enlisted soldier then he may have been a deserter, which mean that leaving Croatia under the guise of a civilian refugee under a false name and with false papers would have been essential, as in times of war in most armies desertion is a crime punishable by death.

This would also explain the reason why he had chosen to commit suicide.

In the US after the 9/11 attacks (which were so close to the date of his suicide), it would have been obvious to any forward thinking person that obvious 'foreigners' would be subject to rigorous inspection of their identification, and if Ilija had been traveling under false identification then he knew that his real identity would soon be exposed and that he would, at best, be sent back to a place which he had no intentions of returning to, and at worst, there be imprisoned or perhaps, worse.

I'm basing these assumptions on the identical appearance of the men in these two images as a trained professional artist who has studied and reproduced in exact detail the minute details of the features of the human face countless times.

As far as a 'rule out' goes, I'm expecting that if Ilija Dukic was a military enlistee and, (as is standard when enlisting in the military), the records of his fingerprints still exist on file in Croatia then they might be able to compare those of his with those of 'Lyle's' by email, in which case I'm actually expecting an exact match.

Or, if Ilija still has living relatives in Croatia who actively searching for him, (which is highly likely, considering that someone must have notified the authorities that he is missing, hence his entry on the Croatian missing persons page), and the Croatian and US authorities see what I, and a number of other people are also seeing, in regard to the exact likenesses of these two men, (apart from an obvious pretty much exact age progression), then I'd imagine the Croatian officials might ask these relatives to submit a DNA sample to compare to that of 'Lyle', in which case I'm also not expecting a 'rule-out' either, I'm expecting a match.
 
  • #1,208
Lyle and Ilijah side by side. There are a lot of similarities. What about the right ear though? (His right, left when looking at the photo)

Really not liking the new forum posts per page limit. Makes it very difficult & time consuming to find anything.

Carl's recon with the side by side. Do we have someone that speaks Croatian that can contact his case worker?
It will be easy to rule him out if he is not circumcised.
Lyle's NamUs page

0e96df75-e028-4355-927e-7530e3ff543c.jpg

c097690cc3b2ae51a05e2e28ecf215bd.jpg
 
  • #1,209
During the civil War in Croatia a number of people went 'missing', so it's not unfeasible that he somehow made his way out of Croatia, traveled across Europe and then made his way to the US using various ports with a false passport.
Perhaps he came across a large sum of money, or something of great value which he was able to use to fund his escape?

If Ilija was, (as shown in the picture on the Croatian missing persons website where he is shown wearing a uniform), an enlisted soldier then he may have been a deserter, which mean that leaving Croatia under the guise of a civilian refugee under a false name and with false papers would have been essential, as in times of war in most armies desertion is a crime punishable by death.

This would also explain the reason why he had chosen to commit suicide.

In the US after the 9/11 attacks (which were so close to the date of his suicide), it would have been obvious to any forward thinking person that obvious 'foreigners' would be subject to rigorous inspection of their identification, and if Ilija had been traveling under false identification then he knew that his real identity would soon be exposed and that he would, at best, be sent back to a place which he had no intentions of returning to, and at worst, there be imprisoned or perhaps, worse.

I'm basing these assumptions on the identical appearance of the men in these two images as a trained professional artist who has studied and reproduced in exact detail the minute details of the features of the human face countless times.

As far as a 'rule out' goes, I'm expecting that if Ilija Dukic was a military enlistee and, (as is standard when enlisting in the military), the records of his fingerprints still exist on file in Croatia then they might be able to compare those of his with those of 'Lyle's' by email, in which case I'm actually expecting an exact match.

Or, if Ilija still has living relatives in Croatia who actively searching for him, (which is highly likely, considering that someone must have notified the authorities that he is missing, hence his entry on the Croatian missing persons page), and the Croatian and US authorities see what I, and a number of other people are also seeing, in regard to the exact likenesses of these two men, (apart from an obvious pretty much exact age progression), then I'd imagine the Croatian officials might ask these relatives to submit a DNA sample to compare to that of 'Lyle', in which case I'm also not expecting a 'rule-out' either, I'm expecting a match.

Sorry; was looking for Carl's recon after I posted before; then didn't see your reply.
Ilija went missing 01/10/1991 which would make him 25. Lyle committed suicide 9/17/2001 which would make Ilija 36 which is a year older then Lyle's estimate but still doable. According to the MP link; he went missing in Bogdanovci; a municipality in the Vukovar-Srijem County in Croatia; disappeared during the war, in the water in the Vukovar-Sirmium (which I know nothing about lol)

I do understand the circumstances as my parents defected Hungary in the late 50's. My mother & her sister had gone back a few times but my father refused to go; fearing being locked up.

If someone wants to turn it in as a potential match; I suggest NamUs to Janet Franson but someone would need to do some leg work 1st to see if there is a more accurate circumstance of his being missing as well as seeing if there are in fact finger prints & if we can find out if he was circumcised. I have a great relationship with Janet & would like to keep it that way by making it as easy as possible to get the rule in/out.

Ilija google translate
 
  • #1,210
For what it's worth: A Croatian second-generation friend of mine suggests calling a Croatian embassy, preferably in Seattle if there is one. (He wasn't sure where the nearest embassy was, being from NJ himself.) If Lyle was a legal immigrant, he might have been reported missing through the embassy. But if he wasn't a legal immigrant, he might have been fleeing war crimes charges, though if that's the case he would probably be listed as wanted rather than just missing. In any case, they're likely to be willing to help investigate the possible match, which would be helpful considering the language issues.

Friend also says Vukovar-Sirmium borders on Bosnia-Herzegovina. They're separated by the Sava river, so if that's the water he was last seen in, he might have been swimming to escape the country.
 
  • #1,211
For what it's worth: A Croatian second-generation friend of mine suggests calling a Croatian embassy, preferably in Seattle if there is one. (He wasn't sure where the nearest embassy was, being from NJ himself.) If Lyle was a legal immigrant, he might have been reported missing through the embassy. But if he wasn't a legal immigrant, he might have been fleeing war crimes charges, though if that's the case he would probably be listed as wanted rather than just missing. In any case, they're likely to be willing to help investigate the possible match, which would be helpful considering the language issues.

Friend also says Vukovar-Sirmium borders on Bosnia-Herzegovina. They're separated by the Sava river, so if that's the water he was last seen in, he might have been swimming to escape the country.

Croatia Embassy in United States -
7547 South Laurel Street Seattle, Washington 98178
Phone+1-206-772-2968
Fax+1-206-772-3487
[email protected]
 
  • #1,212
I hate to be the doubting thomas here, but I just don't think this is a perfect match - there are similarities, but also far more differences to me. Anyway, please submit it as I would love to be wrong. Would also love to hear Carl's thoughts.
 
  • #1,213
I hate to be the doubting thomas here, but I just don't think this is a perfect match - there are similarities, but also far more differences to me. Anyway, please submit it as I would love to be wrong. Would also love to hear Carl's thoughts.
Agreeing... despite the similarities, the mole and brows seem different. But I would love to be wrong and have Lyle get his name back asap.
 
  • #1,214
I'm somewhat skeptical as well. I've seen a number of can't-miss resemblances turn out to be non-matches over the last couple of years. But it certainly should be pursued.
 
  • #1,215
If it does turn out that Ilija Dukic is Lyle Stevik and he's in any way related to General Novak Dukic who committed the infamous Tuszla massacre in 1995, then I can understand why he wouldn't have wanted to be sent back to Croatia and would have preferred suicide.
 
  • #1,216
I'd be happy to contact the consulate.
 
  • #1,217
I've sent it! Lets see if they get back to me
 
  • #1,218
And I got a response in English saying this






Dear Sir/Madam
Thankyou for contacting us. we are informing you that we have forwarded all the information to our competent units
Sincerely
National Records of missing persons
 
  • #1,219
Awesome DanInOz! Thanks for the update.

And thank goodness they didn't forward the information to their incompetent units!
 
  • #1,220
Haha annemc2!

I'm assuming its a generic email sent out to show it has been received. I am surprised it was in English so that's a good sign. Maybe they have really read it :D
 
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