Wal-Mart Memo Suggests Ways to Cut Employee Benefit Costs

[Cypros]

So why do we not study and adopt what works in other countries?

Other countries, esp. Canada and France, have been offered as examples of National Health Care. None is perfect, but in those countries, when you get sick -- no matter how seriously, you are taken care of and do not have to pay beyond your insurance payments. Some Canadian friends of mine described how a family member had long-term cancer with lengthy hospital stay and chemo and never saw a bill! That was some years ago. I've heard that Canada's health system is suffering right now so I don't know if it has changed. I've had several international friends newly settled in the States who are just appalled by the state of our health care. But the crux is that the American people refuse to PAY for a good health care system. It would require higher taxes and we all know how Americans respond to that. That will elect incompetents into office if they are guaranteed that their taxes will not go up.

 

[deanws]

Other countries, esp. Canada and France, have been offered as examples of National Health Care. None is perfect, but in those countries, when you get sick -- no matter how seriously, you are taken care of and do not have to pay beyond your insurance payments. Some Canadian friends of mine described how a family member had long-term cancer with lengthy hospital stay and chemo and never saw a bill! That was some years ago. I've heard that Canada's health system is suffering right now so I don't know if it has changed. I've had several international friends newly settled in the States who are just appalled by the state of our health care. But the crux is that the American people refuse to PAY for a good health care system. It would require higher taxes and we all know how Americans respond to that. That will elect incompetents into office if they are guaranteed that their taxes will not go up.

Not true! NOT TRUE AT ALL. People die in Canada over something that is easily curable. They weight factors such as age and $$$, then decide if you are worth it. No thank you! I will keep paying the expensive insurance for the choice of going to the doctor of my choosing, and the medical choices that I can have as long as I wish to pay the price.

 

[deanws]

IN CRITICAL CONDITION: HEALTH CARE IN AMERICA / CANADA'S WAY ..... That's the side of Canadian health care familiar to many Americans -- a system that ... The fact is, though, that Canada's system is riddled with problems, ...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/14/BUGR28JFEN59.DTL


The Problems with Socialized Health Care Canada's health-care system is "five to 10 years" from the breaking point -- even with cash ... Maine enacts state Universal Healthcare Program (Dirigo) ...

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html

 

[lilpony]

My husband works for a major aerospace company. Has for, for 20 years now. As come January his healthcare, that we pay out of pocket has just doubled. When I looked at his benefit package, I though it was a mistake, because it was exactly doubled. But no, it wasn't a mistake.
And get this, he has worked for this company for 20 years. Last year they took away everyones retirement package, EXCEPT, the employees that are union. His job is non-union. They get to keep there retirement. But his and his employees, will not be receiving a retirement of any kind. I couldn't believe it! My husband has been a hard worker and has done everything for me and our children, all his life. And, now this!!! He is 49 and wanted to retire at 55, well that is out of the picture now. He gave 20 years to this company.

 

[shopper]

My husband works for a major aerospace company. Has for, for 20 years now. As come January his healthcare, that we pay out of pocket has just doubled. When I looked at his benefit package, I though it was a mistake, because it was exactly doubled. But no, it wasn't a mistake.
And get this, he has worked for this company for 20 years. Last year they took away everyones retirement package, EXCEPT, the employees that are union. His job is non-union. They get to keep there retirement. But his and his employees, will not be receiving a retirement of any kind. I couldn't believe it! My husband has been a hard worker and has done everything for me and our children, all his life. And, now this!!! He is 49 and wanted to retire at 55, well that is out of the picture now. He gave 20 years to this company.

I hate to hear that, it totally sucks! Y'all should meet with a financial advisor if you don't already have one.

:twocents:

 

[Marthatex]

My husband works for a major aerospace company. Has for, for 20 years now. As come January his healthcare, that we pay out of pocket has just doubled. When I looked at his benefit package, I though it was a mistake, because it was exactly doubled. But no, it wasn't a mistake.
And get this, he has worked for this company for 20 years. Last year they took away everyones retirement package, EXCEPT, the employees that are union. His job is non-union. They get to keep there retirement. But his and his employees, will not be receiving a retirement of any kind. I couldn't believe it! My husband has been a hard worker and has done everything for me and our children, all his life. And, now this!!! He is 49 and wanted to retire at 55, well that is out of the picture now. He gave 20 years to this company.

It seems like he should be able to get back at least the retirement amount that he has contributed over the years. Can he sue? It just doesn't seem right to suddenly have your retirement taken away - I guess that is what happened to the United employees?

It just doesn't seem right - maybe there should be somekind of government insurance for pension plans that go South. Also doesn't seem right that Union guys should still get theirs but others don't.

Sometimes the Union guys have been given so much, as in the case of GM, and then when the company encounters slow times, they can't afford to keep up with those kind of benefits. Unions may have been great in the old days, but I don't know now.

 

[lilpony]

It seems like he should be able to get back at least the retirement amount that he has contributed over the years. Can he sue? It just doesn't seem right to suddenly have your retirement taken away - I guess that is what happened to the United employees?

It just doesn't seem right - maybe there should be somekind of government insurance for pension plans that go South. Also doesn't seem right that Union guys should still get theirs but others don't.

Sometimes the Union guys have been given so much, as in the case of GM, and then when the company encounters slow times, they can't afford to keep up with those kind of benefits. Unions may have been great in the old days, but I don't know now.

A lot of major companies are taking away pension plans. Its very scary out there now. We have a 401 pension plan, that we contribute too, company at this time is contributing half of what we put in. The plan that he lost was his retirement plan from the company, that goes by how many years you have been with the company. As to what your dollar amount would be monthly, when you retire. That is no longer. We thought we would have the 401 and the retirement plan, but no longer. Its such a drag, with all the rising costs of everything. Its getting to be that you can't retire anymore, I guess you just have to work until you drop dead. Who knows. It bites, as my son would say.
We know someone that retired from GM a few years ago. Well they are worried about their pension. It is going to be taken away, they are afraid. If you don't have a very large sum of money put away, people will be in big trouble.

 

[Marthatex]

Well, it is good you have the 401K and the company has contributed half. I didn't know people were allowed to have company plans in addition to that. Pehaps everyone should have 401Ks or Iras and be Govt.insured.

My husband is self-employed and nobody pays him half of anything. He also has to provide his employee with 100% of her retirement.

But it still is a terrible thing to think you can count on something and then not have it. It seems like if the company has set aside the money and invested it, then it should be there, much like teacher retirement or state employee retirement programs.

 

[IrishMist]

Wasn't trying to come across as speaking for others, I realize my opinions regarding Walmart are in the minority. But I read everything I can about them so unless what I've read is a lie, I stand by my earlier posts about their tactics/bullying. And lack of health care is the least of it.

Again, just my :twocents:

Shopper, I didn't think you were trying to speak for anyone but yourself. :blowkiss:
It just seems to me that there is so much bad press out there about Wal Mart, and so much of what I hear hasn't been true in my experience. I also think that alot of the (mis)information has been put out there by unions- the unions that want to organize Wal Mart. There is good and bad to everything, but I guess I question the source, and also try to decide if what they are saying is true.

As far as tactics and bullying, I've heard that charged leveled at them as far as how they treat their suppliers. But, isn't that capitalism? I used to own an insulation company. Our builders would switch to another company for $50.00 less on a quote. Did it stink? Sure! But that's how business goes. If I wanted their work, I had to lower my price. That's what Wal Mart does.

 

[CyberLaw]

From Canada

First born: Extensive pre-natal care because of high risk pregnancy, my son was in NICU for 6 weeks. I needed an op after also. Many specialized doctor vists for both of us, including ped specialized visits for my oldest son. He is perfectly fine now, but spent a week in a Children's hospital with one nurse for his exclusive care. the another 5 weeks he spent in a regular hospital NICU which included visits everyday from Doctors. Not to mention x-rays, tests, formula, diapers etc. We are talking about heart specialist, neurologist, brain scans, etc.

Never received a bill nor insurance premium.........

My credit will not be ruined if I can't pay the huge cost of health care. I will not lose my house because of health care, nor my retirement, I will never be denied health care, I will never be treated as less then a human being. My health care will never be dependent on what ever a company policy is, no one will be fired from their job if they are deemed to be "too expensive" to the company, I will never be denied proper medical treatment, I will not spend my life savings, saving my life. I will not incur bad credit because I can't pay my health care because I am unemployed and then find a job but lose it because I have bad credit because I was unemployed and could not pay my medical bill. I will never have to change my phone number to avoid collection agencies hired by hospitals........

A family of four that I know in the states is paying close to 500.00 a month for insurance....OMG.........plus they have to pay for each visit also. Plus there is a limit on how many visits insurance will cover.

We offer free flu shots which save our health care system 10's of millions of dollars in ER visits. Also necessary vacination are covered by health care

We have walk in clinics, that you just go into, register your name and wait a very short time to be seen.

So I guess the point is this: No insurance company or HMO will dictate what medical treatment I will receive. They will not put my case before a "committee" to study the cost/benefit ratio of my health. They will never say: We don't really think you need this, try this other method, it may not be as effective, but it will cost us(read shareholders) less money.

A man's insurance company will not pay for any futher expensive drugs to treat his prostate cancer. They want him to get castrated because it is less expensive, a lot less expensive then the drugs.

I will not have to wait six weeks for them to come with a decision regarding my health care. I will never be asked upon arriving at an ER: How are you going to pay for this..........and then get handed a bill between the difference in what the insurance company pays for and what I have to pay for.

I will never have to hagle with an HMO or insurance company over premiums, which could double(with no added benefit)on a whim. Or what is covered or not or have the insurance cancelled because of a serious illness like HIV or Cancer. Or I have made too many claims in the past, or I have poor health or am an older person.

Granted Canada's system is not perfect, but EVERYONE is entitled to health care(which I feel is a Universal Right)and no one is denied health care based on age or their current health condition or future health condition.

Right now, because of politics more money and resources are going into health care, because Canadians expect better health care, which is a priority amongst Canada, along with education and environment.

A women(US) carrying a baby, which was diagnoised in-vitro with a serious heart defect that needed to be corrected in-vitro. Guess what, the baby(unborn)was not "covered" under their medical insurance. So they denied the operation. Her and her husband sold their house, cashed in both their retirements, borrowed money, and got the operation for their unborn baby.

If I recall correctly the cost was over 300K. They could not care how much money they lost through the sale of the house or cashing in of their retirement plan, they just wanted to save their unborn baby's life.

There are more people with no insurance in the USA(45 million) then the total population of Canada that is fully able to access health care(30 million).

The USA gets better time efficient carre for the people who can pay, but for others, they can't afford to get sick.

In Canada our health system may not be better, but everyone will get health care.

 

[Marthatex]

Thank you for taking the time to explain your health care system.

I for one would like some kind of Universal system, if anything to simplify the paperwork and cut out the middle men, people who sell and explain the policies, etc. etc. I'm sure we have quite an inefficient system right now.

What do they do about liability in Canada, ie malpractice insurance? It is very costly here.

I would go for a health system that gives incentives to people, ie credits on their insurance for not smoking, participating in a regular exercise program, etc.

A prevention oriented system - all basic tests such as mammogram, colonoscopy etc. given at low cost.

Canada does not have to pay so much for defense, wars and other things we do out of our tax dollars. I don't know how we can afford a universal system, but we need some sort of one.

 

[CyberLaw]

True, the USA spends a lot more money on the military then we do. It is nice to have such well armed, friends "just in case", our country puts almost nothing into our military, as we do not participate in armed conflicts and assume a peacekeeping role. The last war that we participated in was WWII.

But of course Canada does have some problems. Private clinics are being proposed........which will lead down that slippery slope. The US health care providers are just "itching" to open clinics in Canada.

I think one of the "proposed problems" in the USA is that it is so profit driven and capatilism at its best. It is not like a Doctor has a schedule of fees that all Doctors charge. They charge what people will pay, or can't pay.

Also our health care system is paid for out of our taxes, which can and may increase to ensure the health system is substainable. But rather then raise taxes(which any politician is loate to do)they cut back on beds etc.

Each hospital in my province is not allowed to run a debt. They must balance the books. To do that they may have to lay off staff, cut back hours etc. But then there is a public outcry, and the government "seems" to find the money for increases tied to inflation. But under our last Government(lthe party like Bush - Conserative)they "slashed" health care spending to give people the "popular" tax cut. So it all depends who is in power. The current government(Liberal) has increased spending on health care. They are the "people politicans" not the "business politicans".

But ask people if they want to pay more taxes in the USA for a Universal Health system and I can almost be certain that the answer en masse will be NO. Especially considering Bush's "attitude" regarding people who are not rich. Katrina was good example of that.......and a Universal Health care system does not benefit the rich, it actually works against them.

Our province pays 70% of the malpractice premiums, the doctor pays the rest. We also don't have muti-million dollar awards unless it is a VERY, very serious case. The average award in Ontario is 172KCDA.

The higher risk doctors like obstetrics, orthopaedics, and neurosurgery get the most claims.

It is very seldom to hear about a mult-million dollar awards.

Our awards for lawsuits are very much different then in the States.

I do hope someday the USA will get some sort of Universal Health care, so that everyone will be able to afford it.

The problem also with our Canadian system. No one who access the health care actually knows the cost. I have no idea what individual test, x-rays, procedures cost. I know it is quite expensive. But then the next person will go to the ER for an ear infection without a second thought. In the end that ear infection will cost about 3K+. But the person will never see a bill, so it is of no consequence to them.

That is why we have community health clinics, we rather offer preventive care and treatment and also have walk-in clinics and after hours clinics.

Before the "free" flu shots. Doctors were working to the max to treat patients. Many of these patients showed up at the ER, which took resources away from actual acute emergencies.

So as a preventable measure, clinics are held to offer free shots. This is cost effective, as the flu shot is not that expensive compared to the numerous people who were showing up and "clogging" the ER.

I am pretty sure that the USA is the only G8 country that the Government does not play more of a role in health care. Other countries are much more involved in health care and virtually no one is not covered. They have a National Health Agency which delivers much of the health care. Others incorporate Health care into their social services and security programs which I guess is similar to Medicare in the USA.

That would be the difference between "social" health care and "for profit" health care.

Other countries provide health care as a social service to their citizens, the USA provides health care for the profit of "big business".

 

[Marthatex]

Well, that certainly is interesting. I'm sure there are pros and cons to both systems; but basically I agree with you that all people should be able to receive decent health care.

I assure you that physicians are not able to charge "anything they want"; they are heavily regulated here by both the government and the insurance companies. They do have schedules of what they can charge given their geographic location. They ONLY are paid what the insurance company will reimburse them for; they are not allowed to bill a patient the difference in most cases.

That's interesting about lower malpractice judgments and help with paying the insurance. If medicine is "big business" here, then alot of it is operating in the red, especially family practitioners. Other fields, such as orthopedic surgery and plastic surgery are doing great. Spas, "rejuvination", skin care , botox and so forth are thriving.

I think we have good health care, maybe not the best in the world anymore, but the bottom line of keeping people healthy is lost in the mountains of paperwork, trying to make a profit, constant worry of lawsuit and so forth.

 

[CyberLaw]

I have a question: Do all Doctors have to participate in insurance or if the Doctor is very good and popular(like a Park Avenue Doctor) can they tell people that the Doctor charges X amount for a visit and that he does not accept insurance.? Or do all Doctors have to accept insurance...

Another question: For a person on Medicare, which I have an idea what it is(sort of), can a Doctor "refuse" to see the person if they do not have a regular insurance but like a State Insurance. Or does the patient have to see a Doctor that specifically states that he/she accepts medicare? Is the Doctor a regular Doctor, or a Doctor that may not be that good.

Also does Insurance cover everything or just specific things. I thought someone told me there are different types of plans., but that a person does not have 100% coverage for all things. Like the Insurance will cover the hospital bed, but not blood tests or X-rays for example.

Just wondering...........I know that Insurance premiums are tax deductible, but what about about of pocket costs. Can those be taken off your taxes if you provide receipts.

 

[Buzz Mills]

A lot of major companies are taking away pension plans. Its very scary out there now. We have a 401 pension plan, that we contribute too, company at this time is contributing half of what we put in. The plan that he lost was his retirement plan from the company, that goes by how many years you have been with the company. As to what your dollar amount would be monthly, when you retire. That is no longer. We thought we would have the 401 and the retirement plan, but no longer. Its such a drag, with all the rising costs of everything. Its getting to be that you can't retire anymore, I guess you just have to work until you drop dead. Who knows. It bites, as my son would say.
We know someone that retired from GM a few years ago. Well they are worried about their pension. It is going to be taken away, they are afraid. If you don't have a very large sum of money put away, people will be in big trouble.

I too, worked for a major aerospace company, and as the years went by the company kept reducing the percentage, and amount, they were going to cover on healthcare during retirement. Fortunately my pension is intact, at least for now, but my portion of my healthcare costs are increasing each year. I feel sorry for all of the employees who work for companies who have been allowed to default on their pension plans, a la United Airlines, and turned them over to the government's Pension Guarantee Corp., under which, at least part of that obligation, becomes our obligation (yes, we taxpayers). In essence this amounts to nothing more than a huge benefit for large corporations; a bailout for them, an eventual penalty for us. With the United precedent, the corporations are lining up, especially the airliines, and possibly General Motors, to take advantage of this; no stopping it now.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Walmart--don't know if any of you saw the program on Walmart, where they covered just about everything about Walmart, both pro, and con, but they did spend some time talking about Walmart in China. The Chinese love Walmart, so much, in fact, that Walmart is going to double the number of stores, it has in China, over just the next two years. Talk about a huge market.

 

[lilpony]

I too, worked for a major aerospace company, and as the years went by the company kept reducing the percentage, and amount, they were going to cover on healthcare during retirement. Fortunately my pension is intact, at least for now, but my portion of my healthcare costs are increasing each year. I feel sorry for all of the employees who work for companies who have been allowed to default on their pension plans, a la United Airlines, and turned them over to the government's Pension Guarantee Corp., under which, at least part of that obligation, becomes our obligation (yes, we taxpayers). In essence this amounts to nothing more than a huge benefit for large corporations; a bailout for them, an eventual penalty for us. With the United precedent, the corporations are lining up, especially the airliines, and possibly General Motors, to take advantage of this; no stopping it now.

Buzz do you live in Ca? I understand if you don't want to say. But was curious because you also worked for Aerospace. Its really sad now, that major corporations are taking away pensions. Its ridiculous, and scary. Its like you cannot retire anymore. Unless, you have saved huge amounts of money. The rising costs of everything, is prohibiting retirements. And, who wants to work until you die? Certaining not my husband, and I don't want him to either.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Buzz do you live in Ca? I understand if you don't want to say. But was curious because you also worked for Aerospace. Its really sad now, that major corporations are taking away pensions. Its ridiculous, and scary. Its like you cannot retire anymore. Unless, you have saved huge amounts of money. The rising costs of everything, is prohibiting retirements. And, who wants to work until you die? Certaining not my husband, and I don't want him to either.

lilpony, yes, I do live in CA, and worked for Lockheed in Sunnyvale. They merged with Martin, and are now Lockheed Martin. There is a lot of pressure on employees these days. In the airline industry, cuts in pay are becoming commonplace, and that will translate into other industries soon. It's a world economy now, and with U.S. companies being able to get the same job, or work, done elsewhere, for a lot less money, the wage base is being rapidly eroded, and more on the upper end each day. At the same time, the flood of illegals pouring across our borders are sweeping up all of the lower paying jobs, all the while that benefits are being taken away from the poor, and downtrodden. It isn't a very heartening picture wherever you look. Especially hearing that the profits just reported by the oil companies are exorbitant, and the new benefits, and tax exclusions, granted them by the recently passed Energy Bill haven't even taken effect yet.

 

[Marthatex]

I have a question: Do all Doctors have to participate in insurance or if the Doctor is very good and popular(like a Park Avenue Doctor) can they tell people that the Doctor charges X amount for a visit and that he does not accept insurance.? Or do all Doctors have to accept insurance...

Another question: For a person on Medicare, which I have an idea what it is(sort of), can a Doctor "refuse" to see the person if they do not have a regular insurance but like a State Insurance. Or does the patient have to see a Doctor that specifically states that he/she accepts medicare? Is the Doctor a regular Doctor, or a Doctor that may not be that good.

Also does Insurance cover everything or just specific things. I thought someone told me there are different types of plans., but that a person does not have 100% coverage for all things. Like the Insurance will cover the hospital bed, but not blood tests or X-rays for example.

Just wondering...........I know that Insurance premiums are tax deductible, but what about about of pocket costs. Can those be taken off your taxes if you provide receipts.

Good questions, a few doctors have gone to a "contract" basis with patients, mainly family doctors to avoid insurance altogether. But most specialties can't do that - it's pretty hard for patients to walk in and pay a thousand for their appendectomy, or three thousand for their knee replacement. For large things, people are better off having insurance.

Medical expenses are tax deductible now only over a certain percentage of your income, say 7% or so? I'm not sure on that one. But definitely not all expenses are deductible.

Doctors, depending on state, can choose to see or not see Medicare patients (as a group). In Massachusetts you have to, Texas not. Medicare is the most incredible paperwork mess & beaurocracy, which does make one wonder what a Universal Health Care system would be like.

 

[AutumnBorn]

So why do we not study and adopt what works in other countries?

Because it's a dog eat dog world, every man for himself, socialism in all forms is evil (unless it's social security), and most of us aren't wealthy enough to care about. That's the truth.

The budget cuts we're facing today? Only the poor and the environment will feel it.