WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[Nova]

Illegal wire tapping is what he did. He listened in on police and media without permission during an investigation of the Monster of Florence murders.

This is not about "inventing elaborate and improbably theory".

You employ an odd double standard, otto.

In the case of Amanda Knox, your posts insist "once a liar, always a liar." You refuse to acknowledge that perhaps she was under intolerable pressure in a foreign country and working in a language only somewhat familiar to her. As far as you are concerned, AK's lies show her to be capable of anything, including murder.

In the case of Mignini, on the other hand, it seems you've decided "boys will be boys."

I, on the other hand, expect higher ethical standards from an experienced professional. And I certainly think that inventing an improbable conspiracy in one case may show an inclination to do so in another.

 

[Nova]

You can read the blog that was linked, or you can research the human rights site. Italy is not the first, second or third in violations ... it's much lower on the list ... in terms of human rights violations. Even the US has more violations than Italy. Those violations include things like wearing religious clothing (like having one's head covered while teaching in a British school, or what is permissable in France). It's very misleading to suggest that human rights violations only relate to criminal prosecutions or unethical legal actions.

None of which has anything to do with your unfair characterization of Bosnia-Herzegovina. That was the subject of my post.

 

[otto]

You employ an odd double standard, otto.

In the case of Amanda Knox, your posts insist "once a liar, always a liar." You refuse to acknowledge that perhaps she was under intolerable pressure in a foreign country and working in a language only somewhat familiar to her. As far as you are concerned, AK's lies show her to be capable of anything, including murder.

In the case of Mignini, on the other hand, it seems you've decided "boys will be boys."

I, on the other hand, expect higher ethical standards from an experienced professional. And I certainly think that inventing an improbable conspiracy in one case may show an inclination to do so in another.

Did one of the prosecutors in the case of Knox and Sollecito illegally wiretap anyone?

 

[otto]

None of which has anything to do with your unfair characterization of Bosnia-Herzegovina. That was the subject of my post.

My point was that the blog that was linked was not reflective of the facts and that it was presented as suggesting that human rights violations in Italy were off the charts. My research at the real human rights organization did not confirm that, and further defined that human rights violations can be as simple as not allowing a woman to breast feed in public.

This is the link that was given: http://ecohr.wordpress.com/echr/
This is the real thing: http://www.echr.coe.int/echr/Homepage_EN

Very similar links ... ecohr and echr.

 

[otto]

It matters because it is indicative of the extent to which this case was tried in the press rather than the courtroom.

I know that other site likes to claim that AK's family released the diaries. It had been demonstrated to my satisfaction that such an event was impossible. I'm satisfied that someone in ILE released the material. The open question is whether it was an individual profiting from stolen material or part of a concerted attempt by ILE to sway public opinion.

Releasing images to Hendry is nothing more than trying the case in the US media ... same with releasing the DNA analysis to Elizabeth (don't remeber her last name) and then publishing her opinion. The Knox family has released information in the hopes that the US media (and maybe Clinton or Trump) will intervene and bring Amanda home.

 

[sherlockh]

If you don't find his theory of satanic collusion in the "Monster of Florence" case improbable, then you and Mignini are the only ones.

Yes, it is my opinion that it is also highly improbable that three young people--two of whom had never met, none of whom had known another for more than a week--came together in a matter of minutes and conspired to rape, torture and kill a fourth party almost equally unknown to all but one of them. And IMHO it is just as improbable that three people attacked MK in her tiny room, when somehow two of them left virtually no forensic trace.

Your characterization of a prosecutor as a disinterested party who presents evidence dispassionately is simply wrong. A prosecutor is an advocate and it is his/her job to lead the jury (which in Italy includes judges) to a certain interpretation of the evidence. In theory, his/her goal is a reasonable interpretation; in practice, with Mignini, we see that isn't necessarily the case.

Along the way, a prosecutor has enormous influence in terms of what evidence is collected and how it is presented. As we see in this case, s/he also has the power to influence perceptions by releasing info to the press.

So, yeah, it matters that Mignini has been convicted of unethical and illegal acts. By itself, it isn't enough to overturn the verdicts against AK and RS. (At least not in Italy.) But it's something we should keep in mind.

I know nothing about any Monsters in Florence so no opinion there, but I don't consider his 'craziness' proven by one case from 10 years ago. And I think just like in the Florence Monsters case Mignini's theory would be rejected by the judge had it really been that crazy. What about all the other cases he was involved in since then? Did the defense in those cases also try to overthrow the verdicts because the prosecutor is crazy? And what about Comodi? Is she crazy also? I think she smokes too much, but I am not sure if that would change the verdict much

 

[missyjane77]

I know nothing about any Monsters in Florence so no opinion there, but I don't consider his 'craziness' proven by one case from 10 years ago. And I think just like in the Florence Monsters case Mignini's theory would be rejected by the judge had it really been that crazy. What about all the other cases he was involved in since then? Did the defense in those cases also try to overthrow the verdicts because the prosecutor is crazy? And what about Comodi? Is she crazy also? I think she smokes too much, but I am not sure if that would change the verdict much

BBM. It doesn't have to be proven by one case 10 years ago. It was proven in court. He was found guilty remember? He can't practice in Italy for the rest of his life (except during his appeals).

 

[sherlockh]

I don't speak any Italian but it seems that this article says the knife and bra clasp have been examined and something was found. I would guess that was on the bra clasp. Interesting.

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/regioni/umbria/2011/03/22/visualizza_new.html_1532364882.html

 

[flourish]

BBM. It doesn't have to be proven by one case 10 years ago. It was proven in court. He was found guilty remember? He can't practice in Italy for the rest of his life (except during his appeals).

So is being found guilty the be all end all here? Because...:waitasec:

 

[Salem]

Thanks otto - my google translator wouldn't work. It does seem as if the DNA on the knife is "on the table" from what little I could pull out of the article.

Salem

 

[otto]

Thanks otto - my google translator wouldn't work. It does seem as if the DNA on the knife is "on the table" from what little I could pull out of the article.

Salem

Sorry, I just realized I had quoted the wrong post and deleted it, and then I see ...

Anyway, I don't speak Italian, but I reviewed some other sites and that seems to be the most recent information.

I think it means that the testing has begun, and it seems that they got a useable sample of DNA from the knife. The results will be released on May 21.

Here's more information :

"Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti of La Sapienza University in Rome have begun the review of the DNA on the large double-DNA knife and the bra clasp under the eyes of expert witnesses.

Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni and Professor Giuseppe Novelli will be testifying on behalf of the prosecution.

Professor Novelli has an impressive CV. He is a highly regarded professor of biomedicine at Tor Vergata in Rome and director of the Centre of Excellence for Genomic Risk Assessment in Multifactorial and Complex Diseases. Professor Novelli is regarded as the “father of police forensics” in Italy."

Link

 

[otto]

I don't speak any Italian but it seems that this article says the knife and bra clasp have been examined and something was found. I would guess that was on the bra clasp. Interesting.

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/regioni/umbria/2011/03/22/visualizza_new.html_1532364882.html

Have you found any confirmation that additional DNA was found? I have looked at a number of Italian articles and what I'm seeing is that the testing is ready to start and will be undertaken in the next two days. I haven't found anything (other than unverifiable remarks) to confirm that additional DNA was found ... and don't want to perpetrate rumor.

 

[sherlockh]

Have you found any confirmation that additional DNA was found? I have looked at a number of Italian articles and what I'm seeing is that the testing is ready to start and will be undertaken in the next two days. I haven't found anything (other than unverifiable remarks) to confirm that additional DNA was found ... and don't want to perpetrate rumor.

No, only that article. I guess we should consider it rumor until the results are officially presented in court.

 

[otto]

No, only that article. I guess we should consider it rumor until the results are officially presented in court.

I'm inclined to think so. The testing is set to begin and will go on for the next two days. I'm pretty sure about that. One would think that if testing is going to happen that there is DNA to test. My understanding is that there was ample DNA from the bra clasp. As for the knife, without additional DNA, I thought the experts were only going to evaluate the testing that had been done.

 

[otto]

This is my understanding after looking at a number of the Italian articles:

Testing resumes tomorrow morning on the analysis of the knife and the hook of the bra of Meredith Kercher. The experts were in fact waiting for a kit to use during this investigation. Tomorrow, professors Vecchiotti Carla and Stefano Conti, in the presence of all expert witnesses, will begin the expert analysis of the knife that has been identified as the murder weapon. Then they will examine the hook of the bra worn by Meredith Kercher when she was killed. The two findings are particularly important

The lawyers of both defendants (who were convicted during the first trial to 26 and 25 years in prison) have always challenged the findings of the tests that were made during the forensic investigation by alleging the possibility of contamination. The defense requested a second expert analysis during the first trial, but it was denied by the judges of the Assize Court.

The appellate court however, led by President Claudio Pratillo Hellmann, granted a new report calling for engineers to perform further analysis. Where this analysis is not possible; if the complete DNA was used or the DNA may have already' been analyzed, the experts shall report on the forensic work, taking into consideration the question of contamination.

Meanwhile, next Saturday Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito will be in court for the deposition of the homeless man Antonio Curatolo, who was a key witness during the first trial. He is said to have seen Amanda and Raffaele near the house the night of the murder. The conclusions of the scientific report will be filed no later than May 9 and will be discussed at the hearing on May 21.

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Region...sul-gancetto-e-sul-coltello_311814113267.html

 

[sherlockh]

I'm inclined to think so. The testing is set to begin and will go on for the next two days. I'm pretty sure about that. One would think that if testing is going to happen that there is DNA to test. My understanding is that there was ample DNA from the bra clasp. As for the knife, without additional DNA, I thought the experts were only going to evaluate the testing that had been done.

Yes, seems a bit too early for any results. Now I think about it, the article probably just means that a few areas were or will be swapped to see if there is any DNA there. It doesn't yet mean that anything will be found.

And there is 12 expert witnesses or so watching the tests? I am glad I don't have to do those tests. I get nervous just thinking about it..lol..

 

[otto]

Yes, seems a bit too early for any results. Now I think about it, the article probably just means that a few areas were or will be swapped to see if there is any DNA there. It doesn't yet mean that anything will be found.

And there is 12 expert witnesses or so watching the tests? I am glad I don't have to do those tests. I get nervous just thinking about it..lol..

I don't know how many. There are two experts appointed by the court, two experts for the prosecution, and then Raffaele and Amanda may have another 3 or 4 experts between them. I understood that the testing was going to start a couple of weeks ago (read that back then), but today's article says that they were waiting for the kits. Maybe new kits had to be requested to ensure that the ones they had weren't already contaminated with case related DNA ... ensuring that there is no possiblity of additional concerns of any kind.

If the DNA is in the accused's favor, this will open the door to re-evaluating more evidence. If it is confirmed, it will close the door permanently (I think).

 

[otto]

I don't speak any Italian but it seems that this article says the knife and bra clasp have been examined and something was found. I would guess that was on the bra clasp. Interesting.

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/regioni/umbria/2011/03/22/visualizza_new.html_1532364882.html

If I had to hazard a guess, this is what I think that article says:

"Today, technical experts, appointed by the Assize Court of Appeal in Perugia, started the process of examining traces of DNA on the knife and hook of the bra. These points are at the center of the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher.

The expert analysis is part of the appeal trial with Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox, who are sentenced to 26 and 25 years in prison. The experts examined both the knife and the hook of the bra worn by British student when she was killed. There have also been some withdrawals."

The most interesting sentence is the last one: "Sono stati anche fatti alcuni prelievi."

It could mean that samples have been taken.

 

[otto]

If Raffaele's DNA is on the clasp, and the knife could not be confirmed, what would be the result? If Meredith's DNA is on the knife, is it game over?

I wonder if the recent bowling fundraiser was to pay for an expert. I wonder how far 900 euros goes with experts ... 2-3 days hopefully (doubt it)?

There could be a leak about the results in two or three days.

 

[missyjane77]

So is being found guilty the be all end all here? Because...:waitasec:

No, IMO, there is ample evidence that Mignini is guilty, not Amanda...