WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[missyjane77]

Forensic engineers are very good at trace analysis btw....

ETA: and accident reconstruction....

 

[SMK]

Without credentials, it's just another layperson's opinion, no different from yours or mine.
(perhaps you should read the thread and review the discussion about Hendry)

Okie, will do....but still am worried that he may be correct.

 

[Nova]

Her confession to being in the cottage at the time of the murder is like Rudy's confession to being in the cottage at the time of the murder. They have both claimed they were there, and both claimed they didn't commit murder. Neither of them sought assistance for Meredith.

Then it may be true that AK (falsely) confessed to violating Italy's "duty to assist" law. She did not confess to murder, assisting in the murder or even knowing the murder was going to take place. Nor did she confess to committing any felony (such as robbery) that would make her guilty of murder under a theory of "felony murder."

Since PL wasn't even involved, there is no evidence that he and AK conspired to harm MK, so AK's unlocking of the door doesn't make her guilty of murder either.

There is no way to turn what she said into a murder confession except through the sort of flight of fancy for which Mignini is well known.

 

[Nova]

We still have the problem of the footprint that does not belong to Rudy, the staged break in, the absence of alibis, the lies, the false accusations and so on. How is that to be explained?

Rudy's sentence was the same as that of Amanda and Raffaele, with a reduction of 1/3 applied to the final sentence because he chose a different trial process. What's interesting is that I don't recall anyone referring to Rudy as innocent until his final appeal. What was widely stated was that he was guilty in the court of first instance, therefore guilty. That first verdict was then used to argue the "lone wolf" theory (i.e.: he's guilty, we know it and he did it alone).

Well, just to mention one difference: RG fled the jurisdiction. AK and RS did not. Fleeing is traditionally deemed to show cognizance of guilt.

 

[SMK]

Welcome to WS!

I don't think there is any consensus here as to what will happen even if the knife and bra DNA are thrown out by the appellate court. Personally, I think this case has become a political "hot potato" in Italy and, humans being humans (this isn't specially true of Italians), I think judges will find it very difficult to overturn the verdicts.

But I'm not an expert on Italian courts, so this is just a guess on my part.

Thanks! I would agree it has become a political hot potato, certainly!

 

[Nova]

Hi, I'm curious as to the reason for the title of this thread ??? It takes a poster by surprise and then nothing about that here, that I have seen. Like this gal committed a ghastly murder scene. hwow: Just curious is all.

I don't know why we are being especially sensitive here. We've had threads that linked to autopsy photos of Jon-Benet Ramsey and crime scene photos of Darlie Routier's children.

This is a true-crime site. Personally, I assume that any thread may link to photos I find distressing.

 

[SMK]

Well, just to mention one difference: RG fled the jurisdiction. AK and RS did not. Fleeing is traditionally deemed to show cognizance of guilt.

Excellent point, and I have always thought it odd that one person and one person alone left Italy: Guede. Another problematic area: Isn't it usual for co-conspirators to "rat eachother out" (i.e., :"It was Rudy who stabbed her, we tried to stop him"; OR, "I tried to tell Amanda and Raffaele to stop, but they but they would not listen, I only wanted money")---in other words, the silence on the part of AK, RS, and RG seems to be indicative of their never having been there, all 3, working in tandem.....:waitasec:

 

[sherlockh]

And still, Amanda Knox did not confess to murder. I am certain you know this, so your repeated posting of this misinformation puzzles me.

She did confess to murder. Being present in the cottage during the murder and not do anything about it makes her guilty under Italian law. Of course, I understand what you mean but the confession should not be taken lightly. Standing in the kitchen with her fingers in her ears during the murder does not make it ok.

 

[SMK]

We still have the problem of the footprint that does not belong to Rudy, the staged break in, the absence of alibis, the lies, the false accusations and so on. How is that to be explained?

Rudy's sentence was the same as that of Amanda and Raffaele, with a reduction of 1/3 applied to the final sentence because he chose a different trial process. What's interesting is that I don't recall anyone referring to Rudy as innocent until his final appeal. What was widely stated was that he was guilty in the court of first instance, therefore guilty. That first verdict was then used to argue the "lone wolf" theory (i.e.: he's guilty, we know it and he did it alone).

Well, I believe many could not entertain the idea that Rudy was innocent until the appeals proved him not so, because of his history of smashing windows, burglarizing, brandishing knives, his DNA found on Ms. Kercher's body, his faeces in the toilet, his admission of sex with Ms. Kercher-----just kind of hard to see him as "wrongly accused" in all that.......

 

[sherlockh]

Thanks! I would agree it has become a political hot potato, certainly!

Only on the internet. This is just a small case. I am not Italian but lets not exaggerate about the political importance of this case. JMO.

 

[otto]

Yes. Obviously. Or we wouldn't be discussing it.

I would propose we use "pro-verdict," but if by some chance the verdicts are overturned, you and others aren't likely to change your opinions on the guilt of AK and RS. So at that point, you'll become "anti-verdict," I guess.

Nova, I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories and have put my faith in the judicial system in Perugia. I understand and believe that verdict was fair and just. Given the information that is currently available, I believe the convictions will stand. If new information comes to ight, I am quite capable of modifying my beliefs. I'm pretty sure that I will always be supportive of those that are in the best position to evaluate the evidence: the Italian court system.

 

[sherlockh]

Excellent point, and I have always thought it odd that one person and one person alone left Italy: Guede. Another problematic area: Isn't it usual for co-conspirators to "rat eachother out" (i.e., :"It was Rudy who stabbed her, we tried to stop him"; OR, "I tried to tell Amanda and Raffaele to stop, but they but they would not listen, I only wanted money")---in other words, the silence on the part of AK, RS, and RG seems to be indicative of their never having been there, all 3, working in tandem.....:waitasec:

Maybe nobody told anyone to stop? It is an indication that they know very well that all 3 of them are equally guilty. Although AK and RS somewhat started to accuse each other that never continued when they got lawyers. It would be very stupid for them to accuse each other. That is a prosecutors wet dream so to speak

 

[Allusonz]

Duly noted. But I find what he says very plausible, and VERY worrisome. Remember, one can be correct in an analysis without being an expert in the field. Far too much weight is given regarding credentials, and I have long believed this. A professor of English Literature can make a very, very astute psychoanalysis of someone's character, far surpassing that of a clinical psychologist. A student can be more astute about a philosophical problem than the PhD. This was Plato's message with the Meno: It was the slave, and not the scholar, who got the geometric answer correct. "Show me your credentials" only goes so far. Hendry has raised some serious questions, and until they are answered, I am very, very bothered by them. Who can refute him? Fully and finally? What if Hendry is correct. Then what???

:welcome:

Otto you have requested his credentials before and they have been cited often. He is not a layperson

Ron Hendry is a retired Forensic Engineer (aka Accident Reconstructionist) with 28 years of experience at evaluating and reconstructing serious to fatal incidents based on the physical evidence. Mr. Hendry is a degreed Mechanical Engineer who held a Professional Engineering License during his consulting career. His body of work was primarily with regard civil litigation matters. However, his work has required him to interact extensively with police and review their reports, interview witnesses, review autopsy reports, and review statements and depositions of witnesses and experts. Ron has extensive experience in evaluating incidents from scene photos and witness testimony in cases where the physical evidence was no longer around. In several instances, Ron has evaluated injuries of those involved to ascertain how they occurred

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendryindex2.html

 

[SMK]

Nova, I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories and have put my faith in the judicial system in Perugia. I understand and believe that verdict was fair and just. Given the information that is currently available, I believe the convictions will stand. If new information comes to ight, I am quite capable of modifying my beliefs. I'm pretty sure that I will always be supportive of those that are in the best position to evaluate the evidence: the Italian court system.

Yes, this is fitting and proper. But...... we know courts in Italy, in America, and everywhere, have made some HUGE errors, and many innocent people have been wrongly convicted. Some have been saved years later by DNA. We should never have blind faith in institutions. Mignini is a sincere and noble man, but even he had 20 indictments thrown out, and himself was indicted and convicted. We cannot have blind faith in the courts or in any authority. Even if the convictions stand, it may be wrong and unjust.

 

[Allusonz]

I find even more bizzare that RS, who has been proven not to know RG did not name him to GM even though he was in solitary confinement, not allowed legal representation prior to his first court hearing

 

[Allusonz]

Only on the internet. This is just a small case. I am not Italian but lets not exaggerate about the political importance of this case. JMO.

I must agree here. The political pressure is intense (understatement in my mind)

 

[scandi]

I don't know why we are being especially sensitive here. We've had threads that linked to autopsy photos of Jon-Benet Ramsey and crime scene photos of Darlie Routier's children.

This is a true-crime site. Personally, I assume that any thread may link to photos I find distressing.

Yes, I agree Nova.

Also ~ I am curious as to how the Italians could get this gal so wrong, that is if she is truly innocent.

I am not well read here. But watching the news about this on TV would say allot of the problem could be that she does not have a 'pleasing' persona and that has worked against her.

 

[otto]

Yes, this is fitting and proper. But...... we know courts in Italy, in America, and everywhere, have made some HUGE errors, and many innocent people have been wrongly convicted. Some have been saved years later by DNA. We should never have blind faith in institutions. Mignini is a sincere and noble man, but even he had 20 indictments thrown out, and himself was indicted and convicted. We cannot have blind faith in the courts or in any authority. Even if the convictions stand, it may be wrong and unjust.

I don't have "blind faith". I don't see any problem with the current reasoning regarding the convictions.

 

[Allusonz]

I know this will annoy you, and I apologize, but didn't Amanda say it was suggested to her to envision being there? (I know a tactic once used by unscrupulous psychiatrists to commit patients for insurance purposes, was to ask them to "envision how you would kill yourself", and then use this as a "confession" and proof empirical of "suicidal ideation". ugh) This was my understanding, so bespeaks fantasy and false confession. I am a person who wanted to believe in Knox's guilt, but could not, after doing a bit of investigating.....I know you must be worn out with all of this after 4 years....

Yes it was. As well the "mediator" her term not mine also used a situation from her life thus she was actually involved within the interrogation rather than translating it

 

[otto]

I must agree here. The political pressure is intense (understatement in my mind)

What political pressure? Meredith's murder has nothing to do with politics.