WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[Malkmus]

The glass was evenly distributed across the entire window ledge. This glass was not disturbed, so whomever we imagine entered this window did not touch the window ledge while entering the window.

Sorry ... no hoisting on the window ledge. The person that entered through this window would have had to enter like spiderman, or take a giant leap from the ground.

This is incorrect, Otto. We have the high resolution photos of the window sill and the glass is not evenly distributed across it at all. It's roughly across half of it. The majority of the glass on the floor is in a spraying pattern going out from the window across the room.
Filomena disturbed the evidence before it could be inspected by police. She went in and grabbed her laptop which had glass on top of it. It was on the floor by the clothes. The glass could easily have fallen on the clothes at that point. But in my opinion, based on seeing the photos of her room, I wouldn't be surprised if that small pile of clothes was under the window already when it was broken. The "pile" isn't even really a pile of clothes. It's just a bag that was against the wall that tipped over when the rock fell into it and maybe one sweater, a purse and a slipper under it.

 

[minazoe]

and so then, after rudi breaks in thru the window and gets glass everywhere he meets his cohorts who come in with the key they have???? and then they????


I mean who comes up with this stuff? it's complete nonsense.

 

[SMK]

and so then, after rudi breaks in thru the window and gets glass everywhere he meets his cohorts who come in with the key they have???? and then they????


I mean who comes up with this stuff? it's complete nonsense.

right--but of course they propose that Amanda, Raffaele, and Rudy came in thru the front door, and then later staged....it all seems so surreal though, and one wonders what would have happened if AK and RS had gone away for the weekend, and never have been at the cottage at the time of discovery.....their fate was sealed by being there, it would seem

 

[Malkmus]

right--but of course they propose that Amanda, Raffaele, and Rudy came in thru the front door, and then later staged....it all seems so surreal though, and one wonders what would have happened if AK and RS had gone away for the weekend, and never have been at the cottage at the time of discovery.....their fate was sealed by being there, it would seem

Another strange thing regarding the break-in/key is that we're supposed to believe that Amanda and Raf staged the break-in and then locked the door themselves. But when ILE arrived at the scene the door was cracked partly open from Raf trying to break it down to see if Meredith was in there. The theory among those who think they're guilty is that they were trying to break the door down to get Amanda's lamp after having thrown away the key. What doesn't make sense is that they supposedly tried to break in to get this "incriminating lamp" but gave up and then called the police who showed up and at that point Luca finished the job of breaking down the door.
I find it implausible that they would try to break down the door, fail, then call the police if they thought they'd left evidence of their guilt in that bedroom.

 

[Malkmus]

I think the family is named as heckling journalists.

Cite?

 

[SMK]

Another strange thing regarding the break-in/key is that we're supposed to believe that Amanda and Raf staged the break-in and then locked the door themselves. But when ILE arrived at the scene the door was cracked partly open from Raf trying to break it down to see if Meredith was in there. The theory among those who think they're guilty is that they were trying to break the door down to get Amanda's lamp after having thrown away the key. What doesn't make sense is that they supposedly tried to break in to get this "incriminating lamp" but gave up and then called the police who showed up and at that point Luca finished the job of breaking down the door.
I find it implausible that they would try to break down the door, fail, then call the police if they thought they'd left evidence of their guilt in that bedroom.

Excellent point.

 

[SMK]

Cite?

I never saw anything that named the family as being among the growlers.

 

[SMK]

Nothing cites the family as among these: From The Daily Beast piece by Barbie Latza Nadeau , Mar 28: As the drama played out on the stand, Knox’s tense supporters jeered and pointed, trying to intimidate journalists seated in the public viewing area through guttural growls and stern warnings to “write the truth.”http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-28/amanda-knox-appeal-homeless-mans-contradictory-testimony/Sounds more like some local color trying to have a bit of excitement to me, and Knox's family could not be presumed to be such idiots---I am sure Nadeau would have loved to cite the family as instigators!

 

[Malkmus]

The arguments for Amanda and Raffaele's guilt will "keep coming back" because, as it stands, she is convicted of murder. There is an ongoing appeal, and new information may emerge but, until then, she is guilty - just like Rudy. I have faith in the judicial system in general. Sometimes mistakes are made but, in general, verdicts are correct.

I don't think you'll find statements from me suggesting that three people murdered Meredith over an argument about chores. Personally, I have viewed this as a thrill kill from pretty much the beginning.

And what was the thrill exactly? How does the knife fit in to your scenario? Was it premeditated? At what point in the evening did they decide to do this and for what reason?

 

[SMK]

And what was the thrill exactly? How does the knife fit in to your scenario? Was it premeditated? At what point in the evening did they decide to do this and for what reason?

I agree: A "thrill kill" conducted by 2 young honor students, one of whom is about to get his Master's degree, and the other a good student who worked 3 jobs to come to Perugia; in love, enjoying eachother sexually, phoning parents, making plans------to risk this all, for a thrill kill---------a HUGE leap, made by Giuliano Mignini, just as he made leaps in the Monster of Florence case, in which 20 of his indictments were thrown out....:waitasec: addendum----not saying it is impossible, just saying it is hugely improbable...

 

[SMK]

A Satanic theory brings 20 criminal indictments
Mignini theorized a fantastic and elaborate conspiracy of 20 people, including government officials and law enforcement officers, who made up a secret society behind the Monster killings.
20 people were indicted and charged with the concealment of Narducci's murder, and laid out a hard-to-follow plot that included body doubles and featured Narducci's body being swapped two times.
Tuesday, in a preliminary hearing, cases against all 20 were thrown out in a ruling by Perugia Judge Paolo Micheli, who found there was no solid evidence to back up Mignini's claim that Narducci was murdered, let alone the victim of a satanic sect. Source: cbsnews.com

"Mignini's malicious and completely unwarranted accusations ruined many lives and impoverished the defendants and their families," Douglas Preston, the author of "The Monster of Florence," told Crimesider. Added Mario Spezi, Preston's co-author in Italy, "The great question is: How was it possible that Mignini was able to pursue a case that everyone knew was crazy?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20003238-504083.html to my thinking: 1. Rudy Guede known to do break and entries, and was once found with stolen goods and a knife 2. Giuliano Mignini and the Monster of Florence case, with crazy sexual reasoning = not so solid ground re Knox Sollecito convictions

 

[OldSteve]

Looking for news, I found this:
http://dailynews.muzi.com/news/ll/english/10108086.shtml

IMO rather than looking at the case with what I feel is the common sense that there was no way AK and RS would have ever become involved in a spur-of-the-moment sex game (as mentioned in the article) with someone like Rudy, and then bring poor Meredith into it…
So to turn attention away from this and from the fact that Rudy hasn’t denied he did it, and has not implicated anyone did it with him….. nope, forget about that and instead let’s focus on lots and lots of minutia TO GET AK because she acted strange and gave misleading statements at the end of a long day followed by then being grilled for a long time without it being recorded.

 

[SMK]

the fact that Rudy hasn’t denied he did it, and has not implicated anyone did it with him…it does speak volumes, doesn't it???

 

[minazoe]

right so they all got together to stage the scene so it would look like Rudi, who is known to carry a rock and a knife did this then cleverly using Rudi's MO to point away from themselves as suspects ...making sure to clean up only their own dna and leaving rudi's dna.

and then little fairies flew out of everybodys butt!

 

[SMK]

right so they all got together to stage the scene so it would look like Rudi, who is known to carry a rock and a knife did this then cleverly using Rudi's MO to point away from themselves as suspects ...making sure to clean up only their own dna and leaving rudi's dna.

and then little fairies flew out of everybodys butt!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Nova]

I can go find a list of cases but I just stick with one if you don't mind....

I don't mind, but one case doesn't prove what is most common. As I pointed out, somebody above linked to an FBI expert saying that stabbings typically leave more forensic evidence behind. So I'd be interested in knowing whom you are quoting with the opposite view.

WE-TV reran a 48 Hours (I think) last night on Dan Stidham, an eye surgeon who was stabbed to death in his office parking lot in 2004. He was stabbed 15 times. Although the parking lot was empty except for the victim's car and the hired killer had been given scrubs to wear, he still managed to leave blood evidence on the outside and inside of Stidham's car, including his own DNA and a fingerprint on the radio dial.

You can shoot somebody from a great distance (although even there they find evidence such as powder residue). Stabbing somebody requires close contact and almost always involves some blood spray and splatter. I don't think it's easy to do that without at least stepping in or blocking some of the spray.

 

[Nova]

Oh, I have no problem with innocence groups or different opinions, but you have to admit that the PR affords by the Knox family are rather exceptional. You don't see that very often. It has pretty much turned the Meredith Kercher case into the Amanda Knox case. The problem is they are trying to prove their points with simple one-liners like 'her DNA is to be expected everywhere because she lives there', 'RG's DNA was all over the room', 'ZERO evidence of her being in the room', etc.. It is a bit more complicated then that. The trial took a long time and there certainly are 2 sides to the story.

I know you and otto wish it were otherwise, but the fact is, EVERY murder trial is about the defendant. It's fine to say it's about the victim, but unless the defense tries to make the victim the issue, his or her fate is sealed by the time of trial. By that point, the defendant's fate is at issue.

I certainly understand why prosecutors tell victim's families that they need to be in court to keep the jurors' minds on the victim. Nevertheless, the trial itself is about the defendant.

If the Knox family's PR efforts have been great, in fairness they were up against a lot of leaking from ILE and showboating from the prosecutor.

But I agree with the rest of your post about the complexity of the case. Whether AK is actually guilty or innocent, there are items of evidence that make me scratch my head. But doubts by law benefit the defense.

 

[minazoe]

every bit of evidence, is faux-evidence...there is no actual evidence...circumstansial is a stretch at best.

 

[Nova]

By the way, Sherlockh, what do you think is likely to be the outcome of this first appeal trial? The conviction upheld? Just curious, as I feel one way when I listen to those who believe it will stand, and another, when I focus on the words of those who think it cannot.....

BTW, in the 1980s, I worked on a murder trial for Jack Ford, the CBS "legal analyst" quoted in the article above. Jack is a great guy, a smart guy and an excellent lawyer and commentator. But he's been basically a journalist for over 20 years and knows how that industry works.

If he argues that the leaks about DNA testing mean nothing and the verdicts will be upheld, there is no story. He HAS to argue that the leaks may mean reversals. That doesn't mean Jack is lying: he's merely telling us what might occur and it might. But we should keep in mind that for all media analysts, there is a built-in tendency to argue that something new and different has or will occur. That's what makes it "news".

(ETA: just to be clear, I should add that I haven't spoken to Jack since 1985, about the time he was beginning to work for CBS. The above is my opinion, not something he told me.)

 

[Nova]

Feel free to discuss Hendry, but please don't expect me to debate his opinion. I have asked for independent verification of his credentials as a crime scene analyst. It does not seem to be available. I'm not interested in discussing the opinion of some retired guy. I am interested in justice for Meredith.

I find it interesting that those who agree with the verdicts issue so many decrees as to what evidence may be considered, what qualifications are required to form an opinion, what internet sources may be cited, etc.

It seems that the guilt of AK and RS can only be maintained if the discussion is very carefully controlled.

As for Hendry, his resume has been provided. I've heard from no ILE expert with anything approaching comparable credentials. Instead, I've been told how one young woman remembers leaving her room.