WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[miley]

btw, I remember reading a while back that earlier in the day, Filomenia had Amanda wrap the present she was taking to the birthday party that night.

In this video, Patrizia Stefanoni takes the mop in Meredith's room and then walks through out the cottage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbNMkLqcBYI&feature=player_embedded

 

[miley]

I have seen that video miley

What perplexed me more is that it was not wrapped according to proper protocols/procedures standard with forensic testing as there would probably be DNA on the Christmas wrapping paper....

Thanks for posting it!!!

I first followed this case last year and discussed it some here on WS, after that, I didn't keep up with it... so I'm familiar with certain parts but not familiar w/other parts, old news is new news for me, sorry, please bear with me..

It seems like there would be special bags for evidence - I have no idea how it's done in the real world.. seems unusual though

eta: I try not to rely on the Injustice site, but shocked when I saw the videos.

 

[Salem]

Okay Guys - Attack the post, NOT the poster. REMEMBER - it is not your job to change someone else's mind. If you don't agree with another poster. State your view of the evidence and move on.

Treat each other respectfully. Just because you don't see something the way another does, does not mean that you are right and they are wrong. Or vice versa.

Don't bicker and don't fight. We are not privy to tone of voice or facial expressions here, so think about how you post and how others, without any other clues, might read what you have to say.

Salem

 

[SleuthyGal]

The crime scene was unfortunately not processed competently -- certainly not matching what are considered important industry standards. Mistakes were made. Important mistakes. Mistakes that affect each side. Each side has to rely on the information gained from collection and testing. It's gotta be done correctly. And it wasn't.

It's a shame and I feel bad that 2 people are likely sitting in jail who should not be there. That isn't justice for Meredith.

 

[Allusonz]

I first followed this case last year and discussed it some here on WS, after that, I didn't keep up with it... so I'm familiar with certain parts but not familiar w/other parts, old news is new news for me, sorry, please bear with me..

It seems like there would be special bags for evidence - I have no idea how it's done in the real world.. seems unusual though

You are very informed on this topic!!!!

Some of these videos where not posted at the beginning thus new to many of us!!! As well, it helps sometimes to refresh our memories

There definately should of been protocols followed here that simply were not. Every time I see more of the collection methods used i simply have to shake my head. Especially the ones where she uses motions that cover a wide area when she does the forensics....

 

[OldSteve]

You are very informed on this topic!!!!

Some of these videos where not posted at the beginning thus new to many of us!!! As well, it helps sometimes to refresh our memories

There definately should of been protocols followed here that simply were not. Every time I see more of the collection methods used i simply have to shake my head. Especially the ones where she uses motions that cover a wide area when she does the forensics....i shake my head even more

The certainly look good all suited up in those white outfits - but despite that, I shook my head when I watched in the documentary their passing around the bra clasp.

 

[Allusonz]

The certainly look good all suited up in those white outfits - but despite that, I shook my head when I watched in the documentary their passing around the bra clasp.

Funny you should mention those suits where they look like astronuts. In most of the news footage those were not used. They did not have their heads totally covered, sometimes not covered at all, rarely did i see face masks let alone breathing suits

Good observations!!!

ETA As well the number of people collecting forensics should be as few as possible as the greater number of people, the greater chance that they themselves contaminate/cross contaminate.

 

[miley]

Nova: Question: in the film, a coroner is shown telling Mignini that lividity in MK's body proves that it was moved three hours after the murder. I'm surprised I haven't seen that discussed here, because if true, that would seem very damning to AK. Does anyone know offhand if that issue was raised at trial? And if so, what was the defense's response?

I don't know if it is the director's theory or what, it is interesting - but how is it damning for Amanda?

 

[Malkmus]

It helps if you take it from the top ... the point on the list that is being discussed does not mention Raffaele. The quote is from the Motivation Report.

Otto, I was referring to Nova's point here:

But when you call a print "the footprint of Raffaele", you go far beyond what the forensics actually show in this case. As I'm sure you know, when you think about it, since you were part of a discussion here on the subject.

To which I agreed with him. What exactly are you saying is a quote from the report?

 

[Malkmus]

I don't know if it is the director's theory or what, it is interesting - but how is it damning for Amanda?

I remember the moving of the body hours after death was a theorized early on and I don't know what was finally determined. That being said, I've always thought that it was certainly possible that Rudy probably got no sleep that night, was extremely paranoid after he left the cottage, and that he could have returned hours later and seen that no one had come home yet and thus decided to do some additional things. Just a thought.

 

[ziggy]

I'm confused: what it is about Amanda specifically that initiated and perpetuates the idea that she was the one with the sex orgy idea???? This seems like such a strange fiction to make up - first, men are typically sexual aggresors and second, I have not found any evidence that AK was a participant and fan of drug fueled orgy activity. I think she was latched onto RS like a young girl completely infatuated and not very experienced in relationships; maybe a bit needy. That kind of girl does not go out on a limb and suggest these types of things to her boyfriend!

The "idea" that the investigator imagined reminds me of Satanic panic...think of a salacious scene and then make the evidence fit...found up the villians, make them out to be evil and secure your job and the confidence of the community.

So what would lead one to believe AK would initiate a sex orgy again?

 

[Malkmus]

I'm confused: what it is about Amanda specifically that initiated and perpetuates the idea that she was the one with the sex orgy idea???? This seems like such a strange fiction to make up - first, men are typically sexual aggresors and second, I have not found any evidence that AK was a participant and fan of drug fueled orgy activity. I think she was latched onto RS like a young girl completely infatuated and not very experienced in relationships; maybe a bit needy. That kind of girl does not go out on a limb and suggest these types of things to her boyfriend!

The "idea" that the investigator imagined reminds me of Satanic panic...think of a salacious scene and then make the evidence fit...found up the villians, make them out to be evil and secure your job and the confidence of the community.

So what would lead one to believe AK would initiate a sex orgy again?

Perhaps it had something to do with her swiveling hips:

LG: In those circumstances, you also made another strange movement which one of
the directors of the Questura called "la mossa", the move. When you put
the paper shoes on. Do you remember, Presidente?

AK: Honestly...

LG: Do you know what that movement is? Do you remember?

AK: Honestly, I don't remember that movement.

LG: [To GCM] You don't remember? I'll repeat it. [To Amanda] Do you know what
it is, "la mossa" ? In Italy, it means you move your body in a certain way.

AK: I asked the interpreter to explain it to me, but I didn't really understand.

LG: Okay. I won't show you myself, it would be ridiculous.

And so everyone can see what Amanda is accused of doing in front of ILE, here is a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm27slF9WH4

 

[ziggy]

The only thing I could find was discussion that lividity has begun on Meredith's shoulder area supposedly while in her "original" position, suggesting the body was moved. I would think if that had any weight, we'd have heard more about it. Can lividity be mistaken for purpura ever? Why would lividity only begin in the shoulder area and not other body parts. I'm just wondering if a bruise could have been mistaken for the partial onset of lividity.

Also, as far as moving the body, was it initially though that she was elsewhere in the room? Seems like it was found that she was on the floor possibly kneeling when killed and she was found on the floor, so how is that being moved?

Was she deceased lying on her side and then rolled over? I still have many questions.

The comment was from an annonymous at this site:
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/11/rudi-to-merediths-family.html

 

[miley]

BBM
Like you I thought the movie did allow AK, at least, to appear innocent of murder. So I was surprised that I read elsewhere that her family did not like the movie.....

I can see why her family wasn't exactly thrilled w/ the movie - there were some scenes that definitely came from a guilty perspective. Malkmus posted an article that had a list of facts that were completely wrong (so I won't rehash) .. but overall, it could have been a lot worse..

I thought it was interesting when Patrick Lumumba sat down in the interrogation room, he had a swollen eye and a wide open cut across his cheek bone..

As I mentioned, I believe while AK may have seen MK's body in MK's room, and that AK may have covered MK with the quilt(blanket).... I do find any evidence that AK murdered MK.
As to what I BBM in my quote - I believe that simply supports that AK saw MK after she was murdered.
Finally, just to reiterate - any AK DNA in the cottage or MK's room would be normal to find - since AK lived there! What am I missing?!

You think Amanda may have known details about Meredith's room because she went back to the cottage and stumbled across the crime scene? or you think she was there all along? I'm just trying to understand..

 

[Nova]

That's interesting, but neither here nor there. The bottom line is that evidence was presented in court stating that Knox's DNA was found mixed with Meredith's blood.

It's "neither here nor there" that little-to-none of AK's and RS' DNA was found where RG's DNA was found in great quantities?

I thought the three of them committed this crime together.

 

[Malkmus]

It's "neither here nor there" that little-to-none of AK's and RS' DNA was found where RG's DNA was found in great quantities?

I thought the three of them committed this crime together.

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth noting as part of this topic. The lawyers are expected to argue the presence of unknown female DNA in those mixed samples. "Unknown" probably because they never collected DNA samples of the housemates.

 

[ziggy]

Malkmus are you punking me with that video???LOL. Go to any Country Western - yes, I said CW bar and you will see verified homophobic dudes with more grind and swivel than that in their line dances. I can say this with authority as I'm a former competitor and have been a certified ballroom dance instructor for 27 years and have coached dance champions.

And we all know that hip swiveling and grinding leads to drug fueled sex orgies [please insert the font known as "sarcastica" here]

 

[Malkmus]

Malkmus are you punking me with that video???LOL. Go to any Country Western - yes, I said CW bar and you will see verified homophobic dudes with more grind and swivel than that in their line dances. I can say this with authority as I'm a former competitor and have been a certified ballroom dance instructor for 27 years and have coached dance champions.

And we all know that hip swiveling and grinding leads to drug fueled sex orgies [please insert the font known as "sarcastica" here]

Amanda must've thought she was getting punked when she was asked that question.

 

[Nova]

This has nothing to do with blunt. Please reread my comment if you are unaware of why I find a problem with your remarks about me, and please keep in mind that this is not about me, and there is no reason to comment on me. Furthermore, I did not state that the print belonged to Raffaele, I stated that it did not belong to the other male suspect.

This is what you have written: "otto misstates the evidence here, much as the tabloids did"

The moderator edited your comment to separate my remarks from yours, and apparently did not have a problem with this, but I do.

otto, here is the exact phrase from your post:

"...the almost-entire naked footprint of Raffaele on a bathmat...."

I've already apologized for the tabloid comparison. If you want a mod to remove it, I have no objection. (But if it bothered you so much, repeating it here doesn't help.)

The fact remains that you did indeed claim the print was that of RS, not "consistent with" nor "probable identity" (in the Court's words). And my point remains that the case against AK and RS has been made with similarly inexact accounts of the evidence.

What was unfair of me was to make the point in a way that could be read as an evaluation of ALL your arguments, when I was only referring to that one.

 

[Nova]

Perhaps everyone needs a reminder from the moderator that opened up the thread:

Salem: "Be sure your posts attacks the information and not the poster or posters in general."

That's a great reminder, but the way a post is phrased affects the content of that post, and should be subject to rebuttal.

Likewise, pointing out that the way a post is phrased is misleading is not a personal attack on the poster. Nor is pointing out that the same error appears in various places.