WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[missyjane77]

*Just wondering what the ladies here think on this... Does her hair look recently washed to y'all, about 2 hours ealier?

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Allusonz]

Patrick's lawyers wanted a 2nd autopsy?

Why?

IIRC it was inconsistancies as well some other issues

Remember then it was believed that PL was involved thus test results we now know would of eliminated him at least from one aspect of this

 

[Allusonz]

What does that have to do with anything?

Some individuals believe you can determine from a photograph whether or not hair has been washed for example if AK took a shower or was busy cleaning up DNA

 

[claudicici]

What does that have to do with anything?

....because then she would have lied about taking a shower.
Do you have a link to the pics?I have not seen them in a long time and never thought of that.It's a good point.

 

[kemo]

This tread has taken an interesting turn. The issue that I am interested in has finally been raised. Since I have gotten up to speed on this case, I have never doubted that Amanda and Raffaele were involved in an alteration of the crime scene after the killing. The "double DNA" knife seems practically irrefutable but the other factors; forensic, circumstantial, behavioral all overwhelming preponderance of evidence that they were somehow "involved" in the killing of Meredith. The only mystery is whether they actively participated in the murder or were only accessories after the fact that, for some reason, returned to the flat, cleaned up and staged the break-in.

 

[miley]

Yes, the defense lawyers claim there is the DNA of an unknown female in those mixed samples. Meaning, in addition to Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood. If it turned out to belong to either of the other two roommates it would cast even more doubt on the DNA evidence. Which is their point.

I had no idea the lawyers were going to argue the unknown female DNA.
wow, I'm surprised, I assumed it would just disappear..

Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood.. in the bathroom sink\bidet?

during the trial, the prosecution/LE said they felt like more people were involved, do you remember that? (if not, i'll try to find the link)
I thought they had already tested the unknown dna and determined it wasn't Amanda's - how would they know it was female dna if it wasn't tested? (I thought there was male dna too?)

I don't think we (on WS) have discussed this part of the case.. so I'm a little lost

I remember the moving of the body hours after death was a theorized early on and I don't know what was finally determined. That being said, I've always thought that it was certainly possible that Rudy probably got no sleep that night, was extremely paranoid after he left the cottage, and that he could have returned hours later and seen that no one had come home yet and thus decided to do some additional things. Just a thought.

I've wondered that myself.. not because there was speculation the body had been moved though..
I wondered if Rudy had taken someone back to the cottage later, after the disco.. something else gave me the idea Rudy returned w/ someone but I can't remember right now - I'll have to think about it.

 

[miley]

....because then she would have lied about taking a shower.
Do you have a link to the pics?I have not seen them in a long time and never thought of that.It's a good point.

I pretty sure it was Barbie N. who raised this issue.. here is an img link:
http://behindblondiepark.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/ap_american_detained2_071107_ms.jpg
I wasn't sure if posting the pic was allowed

 

[Malkmus]

I had no idea the lawyers were going to argue the unknown female DNA.
wow, I'm surprised, I assumed it would just disappear..

Amanda's DNA and Meredith's blood.. in the bathroom sink\bidet?

during the trial, the prosecution/LE said they felt like more people were involved, do you remember that? (if not, i'll try to find the link)
I thought they had already tested the unknown dna and determined it wasn't Amanda's - how would they know it was female dna if it wasn't tested? (I thought there was male dna too?)

I don't think we (on WS) have discussed this part of the case.. so I'm a little lost
I've wondered that myself.. not because there was speculation the body had been moved though..
I wondered if Rudy had taken someone back to the cottage later, after the disco.. something else gave me the idea Rudy returned w/ someone but I can't remember right now - I'll have to think about it.

It was in the appeals summary, but whether the judge will allow it to be argued has yet to be seen. It seems to be a very valid argument however.

 

[missyjane77]

....because then she would have lied about taking a shower.
Do you have a link to the pics?I have not seen them in a long time and never thought of that.It's a good point.

Thanks. I wasn't aware this was a potential "issue".

 

[SleuthyGal]

I just can't imagine how AK and/or RS would have been able to remove their own hair, fibers, fingerprints, DNA, footprints and/or shoeprints from MK's bedroom if they were at all involved in her murder. Because there's no way they wouldn't have left something in that room (and I'm not talking about the bra clasp).

And this knife that supposedly was used (by AK?)...it would have been covered/dripping in blood afterwards, even if they walked with said knife to the bathroom to wash it off. Where are those blood drops from that kitchen knife?

How is it that AK and/or RS were able to magically remove signs of their own presence in that room but not obliterate RG's?

It's magic. It must be.

 

[Nova]

Thanks. I wasn't aware this was a potential "issue".

In the photo, her hair looks clean enough to me. But I don't pretend to be expert on such matters.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Regarding the shower.

Did AK specifically say she washed her hair?

It's possible to take a shower and not actually wash one's hair. Some people don't wash their hair every day though they may still shower every day. And it's possible to use too much conditioner and one's hair can look limp and stringy, even after washing.

 

[Malkmus]

Regarding the shower.

Did AK specifically say she washed her hair?

It's possible to take a shower and not actually wash one's hair. Some people don't wash their hair every day though they may still shower every day. And it's possible to use too much conditioner and one's hair can look limp and stringy, even after washing.

I thought that too, but in her testimony she mentioned blowdrying it.

 

[Nova]

I just can't imagine how AK and/or RS would have been able to remove their own hair, fibers, fingerprints, DNA, footprints and/or shoeprints from MK's bedroom if they were at all involved in her murder. Because there's no way they wouldn't have left something in that room (and I'm not talking about the bra clasp).

And this knife that supposedly was used (by AK?)...it would have been covered/dripping in blood afterwards, even if they walked with said knife to the bathroom to wash it off. Where are those blood drops from that kitchen knife?

How is it that AK and/or RS were able to magically remove signs of their own presence in that room but not obliterate RG's?

It's magic. It must be.

Of course, the fact that the testing was such a huge cluster-frack works both ways: who knows what DNA was missed in the murder room? But the odds that they would somehow accidentally find RG's DNA but miss AK's and RS' (when we all know they were under pressure to find AK and RS) must be astronomical.

And that's true whether AK and RS participated in the murder or merely wandered around MK's room later, moving the body and tampering with other evidence. I don't see how they could have "staged" that room without leaving more traces of themselves.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Blowdrying it still doesn't necessarily mean she washed her hair with shampoo. It means her hair was wet.

 

[Nova]

It was in the appeals summary, but whether the judge will allow it to be argued has yet to be seen. It seems to be a very valid argument however.

I realize you and others are speculating, but I'd be interested to hear more about this idea of RG returning to the crime scene hours after the murder.

I should admit up front I'm asking because at first thought I find the idea so unlikely--but I know you guys don't throw out speculations lightly. (Actually, nobody seems to do so in this thread, whatever they think of the verdicts.)

Whatever do you imagine (again, I understand you are speculating) RG could have been thinking? I can see him wandering by to see if police were at the cottage, but why would he take the risk of entering and rearranging things, including the body?

 

[Malkmus]

Blowdrying it still doesn't necessarily mean she washed her hair with shampoo. It means her hair was wet.

True. I was wondering about that. I really don't think anyone can put much stock in analyzing photos of her hair from that day.

 

[Nova]

Blowdrying it still doesn't necessarily mean she washed her hair with shampoo. It means her hair was wet.

Well, her hair doesn't appear oily or stringy in the photo.

If someone here can date a blowdrying by looking at a photo, by hat is off to him or her!

 

[Malkmus]

So, surprisingly/unsurprisingly, Andrea Vogt has written a misleading article regarding the judge's report of Rudy's supreme court hearing.

The document, among others, cites a conversation Knox had with her parents while under surveillance during a prison visit in which she said "I was there," apparently referring to the night of the murder.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/436221_knox28.html?source=mypi

To assume she meant she was at the cottage is laughable. Vogt should have included the context of the phone conversation.


Here is her cross examination:

GUP. In these conversations, on the 10th with your mother, on the 17th with your mother and your father, there is a sentence... [long pause, flipping pages]here it is: it's the famous sentence "I was there. I can't lie about this.I'm not scared of the truth." Here it is, page 8, Presidente, of the transcription Nov 17. I repeat, she's speaking with her parents, and she says: "It would be stupid to lie about this because I know I was there." Do you remember that conversation?

AK: Of course.

LG: What did you mean by "I was there".

AK: I was in Raffaele's apartment and I wasn't afraid [laughing] to say it.

 

[ziggy]

(Response removed because, as usual, Malkmus beat me to it. And with a cite, of course. )

NOTE: I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE:

ziggy, the film showed either the lead investigator or the prosecutor saying a "woman" must have been involved because "only a woman" would have had the compassion to cover the victim's body with the duvet.

Of course, we know the argument is absurd, but if the scene represents what was believed, it may explain the early focus on AK.

Indeed I watched the movie - and could not figure out why the focus was on Knox as the instigator in a sex crime. I just got hung up right there and thought the prosecutor was nuts. So men NEVER cover a body with a blanket? And because she may have covered the body, she is then the maniac who hatched the plan and instigated two guys to join her? Because Meredith complained about her tidiness as a roomate? Too much. Too big a leap.

I understand the profiling but the other evidence was so, so weak and doesn't support this theory AT ALL. Plus I believe she and the evidence were manipulated.

ON the livor mortis: one comment I saw said that the autopsy report states there is livor mortis on the posterior side of the body. I happen to know that my posterior is my backside

Wouldn't this simply show that Meredith was on her back shortly after her death and wasn't she indeed found on her back?

Can anyone verify this is what the autopsy report states? I could not find a copy of it.