Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #3

[Leila]

I don't see how the State or States can give welfare, food stamps etc. to people who have agreed to give up everything to their church. The compound in El Dorado was built in less than 24 months, orchards planted and a few homes erected too. Doesn't State aid require a home visitation to confirm the applicants address, income, as well as marital status? Personal belief- State aid should be denied anyone living in communal settings it is obvious that in a communal setting that personal income is not truthfully reported
Several question haunt me.
Where are these children born? Do the mothers get prenatal care?
If they are born at home and if complications arise do they seek outside medical help?
I would think from national statistics that such young girls giving birth would be riskier and more likely than not that birth injuries, and maternal /fetal complications would arise. If prenatal care is given would it not be an obligation of the treating physician to report the age of the woman/child giving birth. You can say you are 18 but your body development can"t support that lie.
Maybe a search of the compound looking for grave sites is in order.

I'm just now catching up on today's posts and don't know if someone addressed your question yet. On the evidence list of items confiscated by LE from the YFZ ranch, were pictures and video of the "birthing room." I'm assuming that the women gave birth there on the ranch with perhaps a midwife (FLDS member) in charge.

 

[barb0301]

Adolescent boys moved into temporary foster placement already, they are placed together.

 

[mollymalone]

I didn't catch all of the briefing but here's what I did catch from cnn online.

There are 100 children that are four and older are in our care.There is one care giver to every three
children and these are licensed child care and CPS. 57 women went to the coliseum with the children
and 6 opted to go to safe place. The other women requested to go back to the ranch. Two dozen
boys were moved to temporary foster placement. They are together. A lot of the children can't name
who their parents are, have no birth certificates.

We have therapists, child mental health workers working with the children.Dr. Bruce Perry has been
phenomenal and hopefully he'll be able to talk about the issues later on.

Today attorneys have come in and are having one on one visits with the children. The children were
told yesterday that this would happen. We believe that children who are victims of abuse or neglect
and are particularly victims of their own parents are going to feel safer when a parent isn't there
coaching them on how to respond. We deal with this every single day across Texas.

"I believe that we have victims, child victims of physical abuse and victims of sexual abuse.
We have children at risk because of the environment or are potential victims or were witnessing
abuse or neglect. This was not a safe environment for these children."

There was a lot of thought put into this decision and we did not make it alone. We talked to experts
and asked what is in the best interest of these children. And we stand by the decision we made.
The children school age and older are better able to help in providing for their own care as compared
to the infants.

That was incorrect. We tried to explain best we could to the women why the decision was made.
We encouraged the women to make this the least traumatic to their children as possible and they did.
They were very appropriate. They were able to say goodbye to their children. LE presence sometimes
frighten people, and they were there from the beginning. LE was there but it was CPS who was discussing
this with the children.

We and the parents are addressing their educational needs. We have placements ready for the children
if the court rules that they will stay in temporary custody of CPS. I can' t speculate on what they felt,
but they said yes they do not want to return to the ranch and want to go to a safe place. 416 children.
That is the same. The children are right next door to each other. Women who have children four years
and younger remain with us.

We're aware that this is very difficult for everybody involved. I personally know and have been
with CPS investigators on the day that we went to the ranch. I was there. I know how difficult it
was for our CPS workers. They are criticized every day. We're criticized for not doing enough or doing
too much.

It is an honor for me to be the voice of our staff. It is an ever greater honor to be the voice for the
children who have no voice. It's not about us and the mamas. It's about these children, who's cries
have been unheard. I thank you in the media. You have helped their voice to be heard.
Thank you so much.

 

[LinasK]

Molly, you did an excellent job of summarizing what the woman said!:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Jules]

Molly, you did an excellent job of summarizing what the woman said!:clap::clap::clap:

I agree! Great job and thanks so much! I'm at work and couldn't watch the presser.

 

[mollymalone]

Thank you! I just wish I could have caught it from the beginning.

The women were lying, they were allowed to say goodbye to their
children.

 

[Hopeful One]

I have a question that may have been asked, so sorry if it has. I'm trying to catch up but I can't possibly read everything because I'm at work.

What if they never find Sarah? Can the FLDS lawyers argue then that they entered the ranch illegally? And then would whatever they found in the search have to be thrown out?

 

[Hopeful One]

Thank you! I just wish I could have caught it from the beginning.

The women were lying, they were allowed to say goodbye to their
children.[/QUOTE]

I questioned that from the beginning because I really can't see them ripping the mothers away from their kids w/o goodbyes. These are CPS workers who know how to deal with these situations. They wouldn't traumatize the children even more than they already have been.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I have a question that may have been asked, so sorry if it has. I'm trying to catch up but I can't possibly read everything because I'm at work.

What if they never find Sarah? Can the FLDS lawyers argue then that they entered the ranch illegally? And then would whatever they found in the search have to be thrown out?

CNN has just confirmed that even if they can't find the 16 year old who made the complaint, the warrent will NOT be thrown out. There is a "good faith" exception there!

 

[mollymalone]

I have a question that may have been asked, so sorry if it has. I'm trying to catch up but I can't possibly read everything because I'm at work.

What if they never find Sarah? Can the FLDS lawyers argue then that they entered the ranch illegally? And then would whatever they found in the search have to be thrown out?

From what I've read and heard on tv from the legal experts they were operating on "good faith" over the telephone call regarding alleged abuse. Once there, they had "probable cause" because they saw with their own eyes young pregnant underage girls and discovered documents and other evidence they believe constitutes abused and at risk children.

We'll see how that shakes out legally of course.

 

[mollymalone]

CNN has just confirmed that even if they can't find the 16 year old who made the complaint, the warrent will NOT be thrown out. There is a "good faith" exception there!

Did they quote someone in particular from Tx saying this? That's great!

Edited to add: If they don't find her I'd hope they'd continue looking, but I still think they've found her but aren't releasing that info.

 

[Leila]

Authorities have not located or identified the 16-year-old caller, who identified herself as Sarah, and women at the compound said Monday that no such person exists. "That person does not exist on this land," a woman who identified herself as Joy said.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4654643&page=2


That tells me this woman is telling a partial lie- that Sarah was there and they moved her, so now technically Joy isn't lying by saying Sarah currently does not exist on the YFZ compound!!! Keep in mind, one of their "directives" is to lie to outsiders.

LinasK................I agree! Someone mentioned the possibility that those three women who said they were "out of town" on the day the ranch was raided and their children taken, may very well be the ones who took Sarah to another location.

We know of the other FLDS communities, but does the FLDS own other properties? Someone mentioned - I think in thread 2 - that there was a very small place near Colorado City, where people who were rebellious were taken for re-education. I'm wondering if the FLDS has other places besides their communities, where they could keep someone captive?

 

[Anita Richman]

It is an honor for me to be the voice of our staff. It is an ever greater honor to be the voice for the
children who have no voice. It's not about us and the mamas. It's about these children, who's cries
have been unheard. I thank you in the media. You have helped their voice to be heard.
Thank you so much.

I have chills!!!

Thank God someone finally stepped in to save these children.

(Thanks, MM, for transcribing!)

 

[Anita Richman]

We know of the other FLDS communities, but does the FLDS own other properties? Someone mentioned - I think in thread 2 - that there was a very small place near Colorado City, where people who were rebellious were taken for re-education. I'm wondering if the FLDS has other places besides their communities, where they could keep someone captive?

Do you want to meet me in Phoenix and we'll go check it out, ourselves?! :angel:

 

[mollymalone]

LinasK................I agree! Someone mentioned the possibility that those three women who said they were "out of town" on the day the ranch was raided and their children taken, may very well be the ones who took Sarah to another location.

We know of the other FLDS communities, but does the FLDS own other properties? Someone mentioned - I think in thread 2 - that there was a very small place near Colorado City, where people who were rebellious were taken for re-education. I'm wondering if the FLDS has other places besides their communities, where they could keep someone captive?

Looking at how they operate one would tend to believe so. Probably within their own communities. I've read where reluctant girls were taken to Canada or Mexico and "traded" with those communities as well as the others here in the U.S.

 

[Leila]

For those of you that wanted to know how many woman went to shelters, Cnn is reporting 6 went to shelters.

I was hoping for more, but at least there's six. I'm really hoping and banking on the possibility that these women, if their intention is to leave the FLDS, will tell the authorities who Sarah is and what happened to her. I hope they will be able to tell and testify to the abuse that was happening at YFZ.

When you think about it.............for these six women, if they were considering leaving the FLDS, but concerned about getting out with their children, now was the time to act.......not only are they out, but their children are out too.

 

[Hopeful One]

CNN has just confirmed that even if they can't find the 16 year old who made the complaint, the warrent will NOT be thrown out. There is a "good faith" exception there!

Thank GOD!! Thanks, Lady!!

 

[mollymalone]

Remember they confiscated the phones for possible witness tampering?


http://www.examiner.com/a-1338364~Texas_Takes_Phones_From_FLDS_Woman__Kids.html

State officials on Sunday enforced a judge's order and confiscated the cell phones of the women and children removed from a polygamous sect's private ranch in West Texas.

Attorneys ad litem for 18 girls from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who are in the legal custody of the state had sought the order, said Marissa Gonzalez, a spokeswoman for Texas Child Protective Services.

 

[Jules]

I was hoping for more, but at least there's six. I'm really hoping and banking on the possibility that these women, if their intention is to leave the FLDS, will tell the authorities who Sarah is and what happened to her. I hope they will be able to tell and testify to the abuse that was happening at YFZ.

When you think about it.............for these six women, if they were considering leaving the FLDS, but concerned about getting out with their children, now was the time to act.......not only are they out, but their children are out too.

I'm hoping the 6 are older and privy to things - not young teens without much knowledge.

It will be interesting to see what is released about them.

 

[Leila]

What we don't know is how many of the 133 are still with their kids because they have chilren under the age of 5. (I'm guessing that of these, the kids 5 and over have been separated from the moms and only those children 4 and under can stay with the moms.)

In the article posted by Linda7NJ on page 8 of this thread............

On Monday night, about three dozen women, many of them mothers, sobbed and held onto each other outside a log cabin on the sect's ranch, recounting the way police officers encircled them in a room and told them that they could not stay.

Assuming that not all who returned to the ranch were in the above group, it sounds like the number of those who actually returned to the ranch might be smaller than we thought. There were a lot of small children, so perhaps the largest group of the 139, is the group that was allowed to stay with their children if the children were under 5.