Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #3

[Linda7NJ]

Link to evidence

info on cyanide poisoning

 

[Jules]

82 mothers stayed with their kids. So, subtracting the 6 that chose not to return, that leaves 51 that went back.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5701506.html

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.examiner.com/a-1342188~Texas_defends_separation_of_polygamist_sect_kids_from_moms.html

The mothers have complained the state deceived them. But Meisner says authorities explained the situation. She says members of the sect cried when they were told but that the separation otherwise went smoothly.


http://www.childbrides.org/fawns_EVT_seeking_shelter_in_storm.html
Two girls 16 years old who didn't want to be someone's 15th wife.

The Utah Attorney General promised to help.

The AZ Attorney General said that the girls would be picked up and put into a detention center.

 

[Leila]

IMO if you are unmarried and having children while on Medicaid you are committing child abuse.
Children born into poverty statistically speaking do far worse in school than their counterparts who are not born into poverty.
If you can't afford the children you have and are dependent on the state or federal government then birth control should be mandatory for all receiving this aid. No other children conceived after your initial claim period can or should be covered at any time . This would put an end to the Medicaid Mama's who have no desire to get off the States dole outs.
The argument but my religion forbids me is answered with then let your church or religious affiliation pay for them. I made a mistake and got pregnant, my birth control failed, all this is an excuse. Making US citizens responsible for your own mistakes or failures shows a lack of responsibility on our own part. The US government cannot by law favor anyone because of their religion or religious choices. End of argument.
Frankly I can 't afford the taxes I already pay let alone a raise in taxes to cover a foundering social service agency that is not administrated with more sense than God gave an earthworm. The fact that these people live in a commune should have been a factor in the decision to
give them aid to begin with. The children all have fathers and if the mothers can't or won't name them then DNA testing should have been ordered of all possible fathers named by the women. No names no aid. Child support is now pursued by Texas when the children are on State aid programs.This needs to be implemented on a Federal level to prevent State aid jumping- going from one State to another to gain aid when you have exhausted funds in one. Mandatory job training and job seeking should also be a requirement. Give a man a fish and you feed him for today. Teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime. Write letters to your government officials, put an end to this type of abuse and cults like this one can't flourish and spread.

CNN has broadcast pictures of this fellow you might find one there.

Excellent and very well said!

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.childbrides.org/fawns_EVT_CCIty_upheaval_big_break.html

Sen. Linda Binder, R-Lake Havasu City, said Colorado City residents have invoked their parental rights in the past, using the legal system to deny state investigators access to their children.

http://www.childbrides.org/fawns_spect_court_protects_runaways.html

On Friday night, the girls received court orders from the Maricopa County Juvenile Court in Phoenix, protecting them from being returned to homes they no longer miss. Binder said state officials are trying to protect the girls. Other girls to come will be treated the same way, she said.

Runaways became rare after 1999, when Jessop's sister Ruby, then 14, was returned to a forced marriage barely
a week after she fled Colorado city. She lived in isolation for 35 days and has since been shunned and mentally tortured, Jessop said.

 

[LinasK]

LinasK................I agree! Someone mentioned the possibility that those three women who said they were "out of town" on the day the ranch was raided and their children taken, may very well be the ones who took Sarah to another location.

We know of the other FLDS communities, but does the FLDS own other properties? Someone mentioned - I think in thread 2 - that there was a very small place near Colorado City, where people who were rebellious were taken for re-education. I'm wondering if the FLDS has other places besides their communities, where they could keep someone captive?

Well, the guy who sold or negotiated their land deal in Texas believed they were buying it for a corporate hunting retreat.

 

[Jules]

IMO if you are unmarried and having children while on Medicaid you are committing child abuse.
Children born into poverty statistically speaking do far worse in school than their counterparts who are not born into poverty.
If you can't afford the children you have and are dependent on the state or federal government then birth control should be mandatory for all receiving this aid. No other children conceived after your initial claim period can or should be covered at any time . This would put an end to the Medicaid Mama's who have no desire to get off the States dole outs.
The argument but my religion forbids me is answered with then let your church or religious affiliation pay for them. I made a mistake and got pregnant, my birth control failed, all this is an excuse. Making US citizens responsible for your own mistakes or failures shows a lack of responsibility on our own part. The US government cannot by law favor anyone because of their religion or religious choices. End of argument.
Frankly I can 't afford the taxes I already pay let alone a raise in taxes to cover a foundering social service agency that is not administrated with more sense than God gave an earthworm. The fact that these people live in a commune should have been a factor in the decision to
give them aid to begin with. The children all have fathers and if the mothers can't or won't name them then DNA testing should have been ordered of all possible fathers named by the women. No names no aid. Child support is now pursued by Texas when the children are on State aid programs.This needs to be implemented on a Federal level to prevent State aid jumping- going from one State to another to gain aid when you have exhausted funds in one. Mandatory job training and job seeking should also be a requirement. Give a man a fish and you feed him for today. Teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime. Write letters to your government officials, put an end to this type of abuse and cults like this one can't flourish and spread.

CNN has broadcast pictures of this fellow you might find one there.

WOW! Excellent post! :clap: :clap: :clap: Absolutely 100% agree with everything!

 

[mollymalone]

Well, the guy who sold or negotiated their land deal in Texas believed they were buying it for a corporate hunting retreat.

The same person who bought that land also bought land in Colorado and used the same excuse.

 

[thefragile7393]

She lived in isolation for 35 days and has since been shunned and mentally tortured, Jessop said.

I fear it's this for Sarah (if that is her real name) or something similar, or she's too afraid to speak up still. It's got to be one of the two.

 

[Leila]

51 women return to Eldorado-area ranch; 6 depart for unknown site

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/15/51-women-return-to-eldorado-area-ranch-6-depart/

This breaks down to............

Returned to YFZ ranch - 51

Went to a shelter - 6

Remaining with children 5 and under - 82

So the largest group out of the 139 originally removed from the YFZ is the 82 women who are still with children 5 and under. I think we can assume that these 82 women are the younger ones in the group. So the majority of the group remain outside the YFZ ranch.

 

[SuziQ]

Thank you Molly for the link.

Kudos to Senator Linda Binder:

http://www.childbrides.org/fawns_EVT_seeking_shelter_in_storm.html

Arizona Sen. Linda Binder, R-Lake Havasu City, an antipolygamy activist, says that she spoke to Goddard on Wednesday morning, and that she believes the girls should be turned over to Child Protective Services.

"Terry told me that Arizona needs to run a complete forensic investigation, because one of the brothers is driving down from Utah and he wants to take them back up there," Binder said. "Terry’s afraid he’ll lose his witnesses. I’m so concerned for these girls that I even thought about throwing them in my car and taking them back to Lake Havasu with me, but I realize we have to do this the attorney general’s way. The girls need a ring of safety around them because we’re afraid that the prophet will start threatening blood atonement against the girls and any others who try to run way.

"This is such a horrible mess. It’s like we have the Taliban in our own back yard."

 

[Trino]

Remember they confiscated the phones for possible witness tampering?


http://www.examiner.com/a-1338364~Texas_Takes_Phones_From_FLDS_Woman__Kids.html

State officials on Sunday enforced a judge's order and confiscated the cell phones of the women and children removed from a polygamous sect's private ranch in West Texas.

Attorneys ad litem for 18 girls from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who are in the legal custody of the state had sought the order, said Marissa Gonzalez, a spokeswoman for Texas Child Protective Services.

What about the men? Don't they, too, have cell phones?

 

[Leila]

I didn't catch all of the briefing but here's what I did catch from cnn online.

There are 100 children that are four and older are in our care.There is one care giver to every three
children and these are licensed child care and CPS. 57 women went to the coliseum with the children
and 6 opted to go to safe place. The other women requested to go back to the ranch. Two dozen
boys were moved to temporary foster placement. They are together. A lot of the children can't name
who their parents are, have no birth certificates.

We have therapists, child mental health workers working with the children.Dr. Bruce Perry has been
phenomenal and hopefully he'll be able to talk about the issues later on.

Today attorneys have come in and are having one on one visits with the children. The children were
told yesterday that this would happen. We believe that children who are victims of abuse or neglect
and are particularly victims of their own parents are going to feel safer when a parent isn't there
coaching them on how to respond. We deal with this every single day across Texas.

"I believe that we have victims, child victims of physical abuse and victims of sexual abuse.
We have children at risk because of the environment or are potential victims or were witnessing
abuse or neglect. This was not a safe environment for these children."

There was a lot of thought put into this decision and we did not make it alone. We talked to experts
and asked what is in the best interest of these children. And we stand by the decision we made.
The children school age and older are better able to help in providing for their own care as compared
to the infants.

That was incorrect. We tried to explain best we could to the women why the decision was made.
We encouraged the women to make this the least traumatic to their children as possible and they did.
They were very appropriate. They were able to say goodbye to their children. LE presence sometimes
frighten people, and they were there from the beginning. LE was there but it was CPS who was discussing
this with the children.

We and the parents are addressing their educational needs. We have placements ready for the children
if the court rules that they will stay in temporary custody of CPS. I can' t speculate on what they felt,
but they said yes they do not want to return to the ranch and want to go to a safe place. 416 children.
That is the same. The children are right next door to each other. Women who have children four years
and younger remain with us.

We're aware that this is very difficult for everybody involved. I personally know and have been
with CPS investigators on the day that we went to the ranch. I was there. I know how difficult it
was for our CPS workers. They are criticized every day. We're criticized for not doing enough or doing
too much.

It is an honor for me to be the voice of our staff. It is an ever greater honor to be the voice for the
children who have no voice. It's not about us and the mamas. It's about these children, who's cries
have been unheard. I thank you in the media. You have helped their voice to be heard.
Thank you so much.

Molly............thank you for the great summary!

 

[barb0301]

What about the men? Don't they, too, have cell phones?

There were a number of cell phones listed on the evidence list that they took from the compound during the raid. I'm sure those have been replaced by now though. At least, if the men have cell phones, they can't contact the women and children though since their phones have been taken.

 

[mollymalone]

You have to scroll a bit more than halfway down and you can read the report. Does this mean Meisner was a former member at one point?

CNN TRANSCRIPT
http://newstex.com/products/code.php?publication_id=631


The discovery of what an informant called sex beds in the temple of the polygamist compound in West Texas was a surprise even to former members of this fundamentalist sect. They tell us these beds are unique to the Texas compound and could be evidence of disturbing marriage rituals created by the jailed leader Warren Jeffs.

MARLEIGH MEISNER, SPOKESWOMAN, TEXAS CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES: It's not a stretch to imagine that they would want to, after performing what they considered a sacred ceremony in their sacred temple, do it in -- consummate it, so it would be valid in -- on that holy property, what they consider to be holy.

MATTINGLY: Newly released lists of evidence show Texas authorities seized ceremonial white clothing from more than 70 men and women. Former sect members say these clothes were never to be worn outside the temple and were used for all marriages.

MEISNER: Yes, they would definitely be worn during the marriage ceremony. When I had my spiritual marriage, we wore white, even though it wasn't in the temple. And even the men dressed white head to toe, white ties, white everything, white shoes. It's just a symbol of purity

 

[Trino]

There were a number of cell phones listed on the evidence list that they took from the compound during the raid. I'm sure those have been replaced by now though. At least, if the men have cell phones, they can't contact the women and children though since their phones have been taken.

No, but they can contact other compounds. And, now they can contact the 51 women in person.

 

[mollymalone]

You're welcome Leila.

I found that site with the CNN transcripts and in it they talk to Lost Boys, and to a polygamist family who live near Colorado city but claim not to be of the FLDS.

The reason the men don't get on camera as much is because they're afraid of being arrested for polygamy which is against the law. Especially if they acknowledge that they have more than one wife etc..

 

[Leila]

Do you want to meet me in Phoenix and we'll go check it out, ourselves?! :angel:

LOL..........not without a dozen armed LE officers accompanying us! After seeing the video of those FLDS members in Colorado City who have harassed the CNN news crew, I think they're downright dangerous!

 

[Floh]

You have to scroll a bit more than halfway down and you can read the report. Does this mean Meisner was a former member at one point?

CNN TRANSCRIPT
http://newstex.com/products/code.php?publication_id=631


The discovery of what an informant called sex beds in the temple of the polygamist compound in West Texas was a surprise even to former members of this fundamentalist sect. They tell us these beds are unique to the Texas compound and could be evidence of disturbing marriage rituals created by the jailed leader Warren Jeffs.

MARLEIGH MEISNER, SPOKESWOMAN, TEXAS CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES: It's not a stretch to imagine that they would want to, after performing what they considered a sacred ceremony in their sacred temple, do it in -- consummate it, so it would be valid in -- on that holy property, what they consider to be holy.

MATTINGLY: Newly released lists of evidence show Texas authorities seized ceremonial white clothing from more than 70 men and women. Former sect members say these clothes were never to be worn outside the temple and were used for all marriages.

MEISNER: Yes, they would definitely be worn during the marriage ceremony. When I had my spiritual marriage, we wore white, even though it wasn't in the temple. And even the men dressed white head to toe, white ties, white everything, white shoes. It's just a symbol of purity

Dressing in white is normal for a temple attendance.

 

[mollymalone]

http://newstex.com/products/code.php?publication_id=631
CNN PROGRAM TRANSCRIPTS

"Michael, I know that you always say that you are pursuing this because of the children. Do you fear,
though, that these 416 children may end up having to go back?"

" MICHAEL WATKISS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, I think many of them eventually will. The
bottom line is that they have allowed them some opportunity of freedom now. I talked to some of
the CPS workers who are staying in the same hotel with us in San Angelo. And they said they seem
to really feel like they were making inroads with the young kids. They were playing and laughing and
playing with toys they had never seen. The younger women wanted to talk to the Companies
workers.

It's the older women. Of the 139 women, be sure, make no mistake about it, some of them are
really enforcers. They're there watching, seeing who is communicating with the outside world.
And, in many ways, in some of the older women, I think it's almost the Stockholm syndrome. They
definitely have bought into this. Their whole lives have been invested in this lifestyle, if you will.
And, so, they're going to be real -- they're going to be sort of the -- the difficult thing for the
outside world to overcome, because these women are watching these children as they communicate
with the CPS workers.