Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[SewingDeb]

Thanks for the update on the children, barb.

4 more buses arrive at TX arena

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9026403

 

[Vegas Bride]

I really think the children can benefit most by cps getting help from others who have escaped. The women who have been speaking out on the different shows would IMO be the best to understand all the fears and insecurites the children would be facing and their assistance would be wonderful.

VB

 

[southcitymom]

I would like to think that the CPS has a staff of trained and qualified social workers and child psychologists that are capable of handling this issue in the best way possible. It is always traumatic for children to undergo change. Heck my own daughter at the age of 7 cried for days when we moved across town! But I also know kids are resilient and if nurtured most will be able to survive and thrive. We've seen several examples of women who have left, and have adjusted to society. I think there are many more reasons to be hopeful for the future of these children than to be negative and second guessing about the treatment they are receiving.

There are reasons to be hopeful - that's true! Perhaps my negative view of foster care taints my view. I do know there are amazing foster parents who help kids in trouble, but overall - I am suspicious of these agencies.

 

[SewingDeb]

I really think the children can benefit most by cps getting help from others who have escaped. The women who have been speaking out on the different shows would IMO be the best to understand all the fears and insecurites the children would be facing and their assistance would be wonderful.

VB

I agree! They could really help these children. I wonder if anyone has considered that.

 

[mysteriew]

Does anyone have the link to the UTube video of Warren Jeffs teaching the girls? I have looked but can't find it.

 

[southcitymom]

Oh, I really disagree with the idea of them being left alone. First, there is the concept of "bleeding the beast", which is ultimately us, the taxpayers. The financial support of this group by government agencies is astronomical ... especially considering that they have more than $10M in trust. 2. Aside from the issue of child abuse, I believe that polygamy is abusive, in and of itself, and is illegal. There is no constitutional protection for bigamy or polygamy.

I hear what you are saying about bleeding the government for money (and I am in total agreement with you that they shouldn't do that - it's sneaky as hell).

Morally - and I just tend to look at things from that standpoint as opposed to the "legal" standpoint because there are a number of laws I do not respect - I just don't have a problem with polygamy. I think adults should be able to marry as many folks as they want if that's what they want.

I just meant that I believe people should be able to worship and commune as they see fit.

 

[Pepper]

I agree! They could really help these children. I wonder if anyone has considered that.

I'm sure they have. I hope so.

Anyone watch Dr. Phil yesterday about Naomi who escaped with her mother, and she returned with camera crew to find her sister. There is another segment on today. Yeah, yeah, I know..........Dr. Phil...........but it was interesting.

 

[southcitymom]

....Perhaps the adults in this self-destructive situation are too brainwashed to be persuaded that what they are doing is most emphatically not "God's will." .....

I'll bet there are some adults who are feeling this way. As we all know, there is a psychological dance between leaders and followers, abusers and victims, captors and captees. A certain type of woman who has only known this way of life since she was a young child may not even be able to see the other side of the coin, so to speak.

But I am also sure there are adults there who are glad to be freed of it - even if they are scared as hell of what that freedom is going to look like.

 

[kahskye]

Does anyone have the link to the UTube video of Warren Jeffs teaching the girls? I have looked but can't find it.

Is this it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbudqrmFSDs&feature=related

 

[southcitymom]

I really think the children can benefit most by cps getting help from others who have escaped. The women who have been speaking out on the different shows would IMO be the best to understand all the fears and insecurites the children would be facing and their assistance would be wonderful.

VB

That's a wonderful idea - prayers that someone in a position to help will think of it.

 

[Pepper]

I hear what you are saying about bleeding the government for money (and I am in total agreement with you that they shouldn't do that - it's sneaky as hell).

Morally - and I just tend to look at things from that standpoint as opposed to the "legal" standpoint because there are a number of laws I do not respect - I just don't have a problem with polygamy. I think adults should be able to marry as many folks as they want if that's what they want.

I just meant that I believe people should be able to worship and commune as they see fit.

As long as they don't call it marriage and don't defraud the government, there is nothing stopping consenting adults from living with and sleeping with as many people as they want.

The problem I have with this is the accumulation of children that become dependent upon public assistance for financial support. I think that all parents with more than 2 children receiving welfare should be sterilized!

 

[mysteriew]

I'll bet there are some adults who are feeling this way. As we all know, there is a psychological dance between leaders and followers, abusers and victims, captors and captees. A certain type of woman who has only known this way of life since she was a young child may not even be able to see the other side of the coin, so to speak.

But I am also sure there are adults there who are glad to be freed of it - even if they are scared as hell of what that freedom is going to look like.

Actually, they aren't free of it. As far as we can tell, all of the adult women returned to the compound. Many of them have been on camera- some spouting outright lies about their treatment, denials about abuse and calling on the American public to 'save them'. They aren't free, and as adults no one can force them to freedom.

 

[SewingDeb]

I'll bet there are some adults who are feeling this way. As we all know, there is a psychological dance between leaders and followers, abusers and victims, captors and captees. A certain type of woman who has only known this way of life since she was a young child may not even be able to see the other side of the coin, so to speak.

But I am also sure there are adults there who are glad to be freed of it - even if they are scared as hell of what that freedom is going to look like.

I'm afraid most of them will not seek change. This is all they know from birth.

 

[barb0301]

I really think the children can benefit most by cps getting help from others who have escaped. The women who have been speaking out on the different shows would IMO be the best to understand all the fears and insecurites the children would be facing and their assistance would be wonderful.

VB

I know that offers were made by many who had left the FLDS and CPS, other agencies had talked to them about coming down. I don't know the status of that at the moment. What I DO know, as of a few minutes ago, is that they are letting the children "set the pace" at the moment as to how much interaction they want with "outsiders".

I am organizing a drive at my church for fabric, used sewing machines, sewing supplies,etc. Woo-hoo - FINALLY !! a tangible way to help !!:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[Spydernweb]

According to the local news some of the kids are heading to Fort Worth:

http://www.wfaa.com/video/index.html?nvid=238490

The Catholic Charities has a special shelter that is designed for situations like this according to the news and the kids will be housed there.


I am sure everything possible is going to be done to help the kids as well as not infringe on their religious beliefs.

As for the inital seacrh. seizure on the YFZ Ranch the Supreme Court has just ruled it is just and legal for Police to act upon other crimes when investigating another issue.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080423/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_search;_ylt=AsS9jPvuBWSgfj0EcUsIi7es0NUE

So even if Sarah is never found to be a real person it will not matter. I do hope, wish and pray IF there is a real Sarah that she is found, helped, cared for and protected. So to those that said it was not legal that the kids were removed for abuse because the Authorities went in for another reason it now is a moot arguement, thanks to the Supreme Court.

JMHO

Hugs,

Spyder

 

[kahskye]

You guys are "talking" so fast, I just wanted to make sure you saw this link. I think it's the one you're looking for SCM and mysteriew.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbudqrmFSDs&feature=related

 

[golfmom]

I hear what you are saying about bleeding the government for money (and I am in total agreement with you that they shouldn't do that - it's sneaky as hell).

Morally - and I just tend to look at things from that standpoint as opposed to the "legal" standpoint because there are a number of laws I do not respect - I just don't have a problem with polygamy. I think adults should be able to marry as many folks as they want if that's what they want.

I just meant that I believe people should be able to worship and commune as they see fit.

One of my issues with polygamy is that it is illegal. If mommies and daddy break the law, how are the children raised in that household supposed to know it's wrong. It's no different than parents who believe marijuana should be legal and smoke in front of their children or permit their children to smoke. Or those parents that think it's no big deal to buy alcohol for minors. If we all did as we pleased, just because we didn't agree with the law, it would be anarchy.

Certainly they have the same religious freedoms that we all enjoy as citizens of the United States. Polygamy isn't one of them.

 

[mysteriew]

Is this it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbudqrmFSDs&feature=related

That one and this one

http://uk.youtube.com/user/fincenMIB

The poster Fiincen has posted several good videos of the FLDS.

ETA: Kahskye I forgot to say thank you for finding that! But I do thank you.

SouthCityMom, these are the videos to check out.

 

[southcitymom]

One of my issues with polygamy is that it is illegal. If mommies and daddy break the law, how are the children raised in that household supposed to know it's wrong. It's no different than parents who believe marijuana should be legal and smoke in front of their children or permit their children to smoke. Or those parents that think it's no big deal to buy alcohol for minors. If we all did as we pleased, just because we didn't agree with the law, it would be anarchy.

Certainly they have the same religious freedoms that we all enjoy as citizens of the United States. Polygamy isn't one of them.

I really do get your point and it's a good one. But I am also a fan of civil disobedience because it helps to change bad laws (it used to be a felony in 11 states to marry someone of a different race ....it used to be against the law in GA to give or receive oral sex ......and the list goes on and on).

Maybe I am unique, but I don't do or not do things based on the legality of them. I do or don't do things based on my own moral code - a moral code I work to instill in my children because I want them to make positive choices for themselves regardless of what the laws are.

Maybe I am naive, but I tend to think that most folks do what they want to do based on their own moral codes and not on the law. So far - the anarchy seems manageable!

I do understand that a society's laws reflect its moral underpinnings - as such, the law of the land is an ever-changing beast. Moral laws, on the other hand, can be timeless and changeless and work well in all situations, so I prefer and search for those!

 

[golfmom]

I really do get your point and it's a good one. But I am also a fan of civil disobedience because it helps to change bad laws (it used to be a felony in 11 states to marry someone of a different race ....it used to be against the law in GA to give or receive oral sex ......and the list goes on and on).

Well, that's one argument that works for me. I wouldn't exist if my great-grandparents didn't break the law.

Quite frankly, I think the whole system would have worked far better if God told Joseph Smith that every woman needs at least three husbands.