Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

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  • #401
I am not going to defend a system that isnt working well. I am going to speak out accurately about what is really happening. If that makes me appear biased against CPS then what does that make most of the posters here appear as far as what has been posted about the FLDS's? Is there any bias there too perhaps?


Although you say you are not going to defend a system that isn't working well, you consistently seem to defend the system that is in place at the YFZ compound, which systematically puts underage girls in forced marriages with older men in order to produce more and more babies. Their system sends young, teenage boys out into the "outside world", unprepared, separating them from the only life they have ever known when they reach an age where they could become competition for the older men. Their system encourages bigamy, which whether you agree or not, is against the law in TX. Their system encourages marriages to close relatives.

While I understand that the CPS system is not perfect, I will overwhelmingly choose to support it in this instance, for the protection of the children. There are laws that they must follow, they will be monitored closely and will be held accountable.

Who, if not us, will hold the system at the YFZ ranch accountable for the safety of the children? Warren Jeffs?
 
  • #402
You all do know you won't change Glow's position on this subject, right?

main thing is to give the continued support to the children. :)

they are so on their way to being out of this cult toward a healthy environment. :)

i hope the women can follow.
 
  • #403
I wouldn't have disrupted the children's routine and life. They could have been left on the ranch and the true problem which is the men... could have been taken to the Fort and detained. Make sure they "know" that they are going willingly...just like the woman that originally went to the fort. As a matter of fact it has been reported that the men have indeed offered to do this. Once everyone lawyered up that news disappeared, but the point is they were WILLING to go if the children and women could have remained. While they were sitting in the Fort I would have had daily LONG meetings with them concerning their future in the state of Texas. Their assets should have been frozen and a guardian put in place to pay temporary basics like the electric bills and so on.

Meanwhile back at YFZ the 500 plus support staff that is currently seeing to things could have been there seeing to things. The DNA swabbing etc could all be done just as efficiently there.Didn't I read that a team is going out to the ranch to collect DNA from the women there anyhow?

This is way beyond the normal and usual protocol of CPS. How many cases are there in which CPS went into an abusive home and removed the source of the suspected abuse, left the child in the home, and then monitored the home. All this without knowing if the mother was also an abuser or an enabler to the abuser, or acting to protect someone/something? Under these conditions the child is left in an environment they may fear, the mothers would be free to counsel their children to lie, and the end result may be leaving a child in an abusive situation because they're afraid to speak, have been told not to speak, and everything is swept under the rug.

In this case, as with all other cases, the CPS did exactly what they are supposed to do - remove a child from a residence in which abuse is suspected. The child is put in a neutral place, away from the abusive environment, where they're comfortable in talking about the abuse.

Under normal circumstances, a child removed from an abusive home, will speak with the social workers and identify the abuse. In these cases, a child usually knows the difference between right and wrong, abuse and non-abuse.

But in this case, the children have been raised in such an insulated environment they don't know what is normal and what is not normal. Their mothers don't seem to know what is normal and what isn't normal......they can't distinguish what is abuse and what is not abuse. And in addition, the mothers seem to have put the protection of their "religion" above the protection of their children.

We've seen pictures of the children that were removed from the FLDS ranch. They seem happy, playing on playground equipment and playing ball on the grass. People who've worked with them report that they're happy. The only negative comments have come from the mothers, who have an agenda.

Rather than fault the CPS, we should be commending them for doing their best in a difficult situation.
 
  • #404
Rather than fault the CPS, we should be commending them for doing their best in a difficult situation.
Absolutely!! If not for CPS, the children would still be at the compound subject to abuse at the whim of one or both of their parents, or whomever is in charge at the moment.

The children that we've seen do seem happy to be outside playing with balls and other toys. I wonder if this is the first time they have been allowed toys?

It is good to know, at least for now, they are safe from abuse. And that is what this is all about.
 
  • #405
Has anyone else taken the time to go to YouTube and listen to the "training" from Warren Jeffs to LITTLE GIRLS (under age 14) in a "home economics" classroom in one of the "compounds"? It was taped so it could be played for ALL the little future child brides everywhere (and a good thing, since it was used at his trial).

It's CREEPY beyond words! He sounds like Mr Rogers and yet he is telling them that he will marry them off like a "shepherd" controlling his "flock" - as if they were literally LIVESTOCK. And that their husbands will continue their "training" (his word) after they are married - until then, they don't need to know anything except that NOT following the training and dominion of the MAN in their lives (who in turn is controlled by HIM) will send then to eternal damnation - he compares it to beheading! These LITTLE GIRLS are instructed that even in pregnancy they are to "be sweet" and think "pure thoughts" (and not have sex with their husband) because such a demeanor will give them a perfect, ready to receive "training" baby! WTH???? They are just living incubators for "future celestial gods and goddesses".

And THAT BOOK they show - it's so sick I nearly threw up. No outside influence for the kids, no books, no TV, no radio, no toys, just work and training and church and preparation at the feet of their father for the priesthood (boys) and "celestial plural marriage" (girls). He even talks about how the BOYS are so often tempted and tested by satan and when they fail they must be removed lest they "taint" the others with their evil. Oh and men are to remain single for a time WHILE they are tested and prove themselves - they must WORK first and PROVE themselves worthy. It's a convenient way to remove most of the competing males and ensure more child brides for the older men. You'll note that the GIRLS are not similarly "tested", nor do they have to WAIT to marry until they have proven themselves "worthy of the priesthood". The ONLY way the GIRLS get to heaven is by being SEALED to a MAN in "plural celestial marriage" and spitting out children. Isn't it convenient for the MEN that the women who are pregnant are not to have sex and hold themselves AWAY from men - I'd think a man MUST have many wives so as to ensure one is always available to him. Oh and Joseph Smith felt that the magic number of wives was at least 30, the more wives a man has, the CLOSER to God he is.

Just go to YouTube and find the postings by fincenMIB concerning Warren Jeffs and Polygamy and the FLDS. I suggest not eating 1st and making sure children are not nearby because I promise it is sickening and you may feel the need to say words that your children shouldn't hear. :furious:

I defy anyone to listen to this man and see that sick BOOK and come back and say that the children should have been allowed to stay within 100 miles of the "ranch" OR their mothers. If THIS is what they believe and are "training" (their word) their children with, every child on that ranch was in danger - mentally AND physically.

And this is ALL straight from the PROPHET'S" mouth AND actual images of the book they use to "train" (women and children) from.

Scuse me while I chug another bottle of Pepto :sick:

This stuff should REQUIRED listening/viewing for anyone having ANYTHING to do with this case. Valuable insight into the WORLD of FLDS - and yet just barely scratching the surface of the UGLY TRUTH hidden at that ranch. Fathers "marrying" their stepdaughters -who are already their 1st cousins!!! You can dress up evil in long underwear and 3 layers of clothes and put pretty long pastel dresses on the women and pressed blue pants and shirts on the men and they can talk all day about purity and sweetness and training and a wholesome, segregated (by sex) organic, God -loving lifestyle centered around children (who may, or may NOT be theirs and MAY be the result of incest) and.....it's STILL EVIL AND ABUSIVE AND SICK underneath!

My Opinion
 
  • #406
STOP BEATING AND RAPING THE CHILDREN & I could care less how you live, where you live, how you do your hair or what kind of dress you want to wear. Pray to whatever God you choose fit but your going to stop abusing the children or you will pay. End of story.

Amen Sadie! That is exactly how I feel!
 
  • #407
Has anyone else taken the time to go to YouTube and listen to the "training" from Warren Jeffs to LITTLE GIRLS (under age 14) in a "home economics" classroom in one of the "compounds"? It was taped so it could be played for ALL the little future child brides everywhere (and a good thing, since it was used at his trial).

It's CREEPY beyond words! He sounds like Mr Rogers and yet he is telling them that he will marry them off like a "shepherd" controlling his "flock" - as if they were literally LIVESTOCK. And that their husbands will continue their "training" (his word) after they are married - until then, they don't need to know anything except that NOT following the training and dominion of the MAN in their lives (who in turn is controlled by HIM) will send then to eternal damnation - he compares it to beheading! These LITTLE GIRLS are instructed that even in pregnancy they are to "be sweet" and think "pure thoughts" (and not have sex with their husband) because such a demeanor will give them a perfect, ready to receive "training" baby! WTH???? They are just living incubators for "future celestial gods and goddesses".

And THAT BOOK they show - it's so sick I nearly threw up. No outside influence for the kids, no books, no TV, no radio, no toys, just work and training and church and preparation at the feet of their father for the priesthood (boys) and "celestial plural marriage" (girls). He even talks about how the BOYS are so often tempted and tested by satan and when they fail they must be removed lest they "taint" the others with their evil. Oh and men are to remain single for a time WHILE they are tested and prove themselves - they must WORK first and PROVE themselves worthy. It's a convenient way to remove most of the competing males and ensure more child brides for the older men. You'll note that the GIRLS are not similarly "tested", nor do they have to WAIT to marry until they have proven themselves "worthy of the priesthood". The ONLY way the GIRLS get to heaven is by being SEALED to a MAN in "plural celestial marriage" and spitting out children. Isn't it convenient for the MEN that the women who are pregnant are not to have sex and hold themselves AWAY from men - I'd think a man MUST have many wives so as to ensure one is always available to him. Oh and Joseph Smith felt that the magic number of wives was at least 30, the more wives a man has, the CLOSER to God he is.

Just go to YouTube and find the postings by fincenMIB concerning Warren Jeffs and Polygamy and the FLDS. I suggest not eating 1st and making sure children are not nearby because I promise it is sickening and you may feel the need to say words that your children shouldn't hear. :furious:

I defy anyone to listen to this man and see that sick BOOK and come back and say that the children should have been allowed to stay within 100 miles of the "ranch" OR their mothers. If THIS is what they believe and are "training" (their word) their children with, every child on that ranch was in danger - mentally AND physically.

And this is ALL straight from the PROPHET'S" mouth AND actual images of the book they use to "train" (women and children) from.

Scuse me while I chug another bottle of Pepto :sick:

This stuff should REQUIRED listening/viewing for anyone having ANYTHING to do with this case. Valuable insight into the WORLD of FLDS - and yet just barely scratching the surface of the UGLY TRUTH hidden at that ranch. Fathers "marrying" their stepdaughters -who are already their 1st cousins!!! You can dress up evil in long underwear and 3 layers of clothes and put pretty long pastel dresses on the women and pressed blue pants and shirts on the men and they can talk all day about purity and sweetness and training and a wholesome, segregated (by sex) organic, God -loving lifestyle centered around children (who may, or may NOT be theirs and MAY be the result of incest) and.....it's STILL EVIL AND ABUSIVE AND SICK underneath!

My Opinion

OMG, FlowerChild. when i get myself together tomorrow i'll go see it. thank you. the fact it was used against him in his trial says it's powerful and horrifying. :(
 
  • #408
As controversial as they may be, the ACLU is involved to assuage the very objections that Glow keeps bringing up. So that the Govt/Courts et al cannot deny the CIVIL RIGHTS of the FLDS members. That is why I find it so amusing to see an argument that the "Govt" is perverting justice and acting on opinion or public pressure. In this country we have organizations like the ACLU - who are not controlled by religion, opinion, money or media...they act to even the playing field against judgments (and punishments) that rise not from the LAW or the constitution, but from opinion, prejudice, and personal feelings. It is the beauty of OUR COUNTRY that the ACLU and other organizations exist as public watchdogs on the courts and govt.

The ACLU may make ALL of us angry at times, but they do us all a service, they uncover and demystify the process of law and shine a spotlight on personal opinions and feelings that have NO PLACE in the system. Justice should be BLIND and it should be applied equally to FLDS members and Baptists and Athiests and Wiccans and Christians. Religion is merely the wrapping on the teachings - while it is the ACTING on the TEACHINGS that is criminal. The teachings have NOTHING to do with all of this - they are just words - it is the ACTIONS that are criminal, not the religion OR the Church. The ACLU will merely insure that the legal proceedings continue to be based on prosecuting ACTIONS - or removing children from an environment of abuse - not a "religion".

If the civil rights of the FLDS members are trampled under jack-booted feet carrying the banner of religion or even morality it will NOT help us free other victims from similarly abusive and dangerous situations. This situation has the eyes of the world, and we owe it to future victims to ensure we do NOT forget that GOD or the sex lives of ADULTS is not a part of this....and shouldn't be. ALL CITIZENS should be treated the same and have the laws applied the same, no matter WHAT faith they may or may not have or WHO (above 18 and with free-will and consent) they sleep with. We have LAWS, and if they have been violated, the perpetrators must be exposed, sanctioned or punished appropriately - we must MUST keep THAT goal - THAT outcome, held HIGH . That we may not like, understand or agree with ANYTHING ELSE the FLDS church stands for is irrelevant here. This is about the ABUSE and the PERJURY and the CRIMES that may have been committed under the banner of the church -not the church itself.

Our justice system isn't perfect - but it is still one of the BEST and FAIREST in the WORLD. Humans make mistakes - on BOTH SIDES of any issue but here in the USA, we TRY to mete out justice fairly. That innocent people have been imprisoned and even executed unjustly here is a FACT - but at least we know and acknowledge our flaws and continue to attempt to render "perfect" justice. And in this case, we (collectively) will once again make our best effort to do that again.

My Opinion


WELL SAID, Flower Child. Thank you for posting this!
 
  • #409
Although you say you are not going to defend a system that isn't working well, you consistently seem to defend the system that is in place at the YFZ compound, which systematically puts underage girls in forced marriages with older men in order to produce more and more babies. Their system sends young, teenage boys out into the "outside world", unprepared, separating them from the only life they have ever known when they reach an age where they could become competition for the older men. Their system encourages bigamy, which whether you agree or not, is against the law in TX. Their system encourages marriages to close relatives.

While I understand that the CPS system is not perfect, I will overwhelmingly choose to support it in this instance, for the protection of the children. There are laws that they must follow, they will be monitored closely and will be held accountable.

Who, if not us, will hold the system at the YFZ ranch accountable for the safety of the children? Warren Jeffs?


I know that you represented all that was good about foster care when you were involved. I still am alarmed by the statistics though

This is from the Texas state Comptrollers office:

"In October 2004, I urged Gov. Perry to immediately create a Family and Protective Services Crisis Management Team by executive order to finally take serious steps to save children's lives. Now it is June 2006.
"Gov. Perry's failure to act is unconscionable.
"I am here today to release disturbing information found during my investigation about the deaths, poisonings, rapes and pregnancies of children in our state's foster care system.
"I found, from information provided by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, in Fiscal 2003, 30 foster children died in our state's care; in Fiscal 2004, 38 foster children died; and in Fiscal 2005, 48 foster children died.
"Data shows that while the number of foster children in our state's care increased 24 percent from 26,133 in Fiscal 2003 to 32,474 in Fiscal 2005, the number of deaths increased 60 percent. "If you compare the number of deaths of children in our state's population to the number of deaths in our state's foster care system, a child is four times more likely to die in our state's foster care system. "Based on Fiscal 2004 data provided by the Health and Human Services Commission, about 100 children received treatment for poisoning from medications; 63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system; and 142 children gave birth while in the state foster care system.
"As alarming as these cases are, we can only imagine how much worse the Fiscal 2005 data is because Gov. Perry's Health and Human Services Commission has refused to provide the data needed to complete my investigation.
"When I called on Gov. Perry in October 2004 to create a Crisis Management Team, I said the crisis was minute-by-minute and child-by-child.
"In Fiscal 2004, four-year old twin boys living in the same foster home received medical treatment in the hospital for rape. "A five-year old boy in the same foster home received medical treatment in the hospital for rape two days later.
"A 15-year old girl who was not pregnant when she entered our state's foster care system in May 2002 gave birth in February 2004.
"The state is supposed to be protecting our forgotten children, but in all too many cases these children are taken from one abusive situation and placed in another abusive situation. Many children are in more abusive situations now than they were before the state intervened. Children are being neglected and abused and are dying.
"As reported by the media, a 12-year-old boy died in December 2005, while in our state's care at a facility that treats children with learning disabilities and emotional problems. The boy suffocated while being restrained from behind by an employee of the facility.
"Another boy in our state's care at the same facility died May 30, after drowning in a creek during a May 6 bicycle outing.
"A three-year old was treated for poisoning from an atypical, mind-altering antipsychotic drug. These drugs are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration for children under the age of 18 years old.
"Gov. Perry's failure to create a Crisis Management Team is unconscionable. The crisis is minute-by-minute and child-by-child. I renew my call. He must act now to save children's lives.
"I discovered the alarming number of deaths, poisonings, rapes and pregnancies while conducting my investigation into potential prescription drug fraud and abuse in the state's foster care system.
"I launched my investigation in November 2004, after my report, Forgotten Children, uncovered the fact that large numbers of psychotropic drugs are being prescribed to children in the foster care system, even though, according to the FDA, many of these drugs are not approved for children and have serious side effects such as suicidal tendencies, diabetes, and cardiac arrhythmia.
"Since that time, repeated and continuing roadblocks and stonewalling have been encountered by me and my staff in attempting to secure basic and necessary data from the Health and Human Services Commission to complete my investigation.
"It has been 19 months and 25 letters, emails, meetings and phone calls since I first requested foster care and corresponding Medicaid data from HHSC.
"The Commission finally provided Fiscal 2004 data. But, 10 months into Fiscal 2006, we have yet to receive the Fiscal 2005 data, which we know has been available for months and months.
"In March 2006, I requested all of the same data for Fiscal 2005.
"The Governor's commission has repeatedly thrown up roadblocks and stonewalled my investigation.
"We have had a signed Memorandum of Understanding, drafted by HHSC, at its offices since May 2005, agreeing in the Commission's own language to the confidentiality of this information.
"Claiming confidentiality, HHSC to this day refuses to cooperate and provide the Fiscal 2005 data needed to complete my investigation, despite that the statute requires that they cooperate and the Court of Appeals ruled on June 16 that HHSC's view about the confidentiality of its records is clearly wrong.
"What I have found from the information that was made available should be and is of grave concern, but the picture painted by Gov. Perry's Health and Human Services Commission's secret 2005 data must paint an even grimmer picture on all fronts.
"The people of Texas can handle the truth. What they will not tolerate is Gov. Perry's callous indifference in hiding the truth and placing our forgotten children at high risk.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/news/60623statement.html
 
  • #410
Even tho polygamy is against the law, and I don't personally agree with it, There are some aspects of a communal living situation which might be benifical in some ways-"It takes a village..." and all of that- if not done in such a secretive fashion. I don't even think that kids raised in a polygamist household is neccecarily in and of itself harmful, IF there is no abuse, child rape, grooming and ISOLATION from the outside world & kids are allowed to make an informed choice to enter into same lifestyle when they are of the age of majority- but that is NOT happening in this case at all.

The Amish are able to live their own lifestyle that, while being very separate in nature, and based on their own religeous beliefs and culture,does not hide behind freedom of religion and has been able to coexhist for generations with very few issues. While I know there have been some isolated problems, that has not been the norm. They allow their teens to take "rumshpringa" (sp) and they seem to get along well with their 'neighbors' , as well as respectin the laws of the US.

I don't believe in substituting anyone else's lifestyle for my own, but unless you are living in your tribe in the jungles of Papua New Guinea or someplace geographically isolated, exposure to the world around you and freedom to make that choice is your right. If these people want to remain isolated and secretive, then let them move the heck out of America, where free will and choice is part of our country's foundation and way of life, and quit picking & choosing which of our laws they want to abide by (doesn't seem to be many) and "bleed". As Dr Phil says (UGH), the only reason to keep a secret is when you have something to hide!

Glow- I respect your opinions, but I must ask this question....

You seem so upset about the separation of these children from their parents--- How heartwrenching do you think it was for the children 'given' to YFZ from the other compounds (which has been confirmed by the AP) because they were "chosen". I'll bet they had to drink formula, had to learn how to bond with a new family, etc... so that whine "the children need their parents" falls on deaf ears for me.

Sorry guys for my rant!
 
  • #411
I know that you represented all that was good about foster care when you were involved. I still am alarmed by the statistics though

This is from the Texas state Comptrollers office:

"In October 2004, I urged Gov. Perry to immediately create a Family and Protective Services Crisis Management Team by executive order to finally take serious steps to save children's lives. Now it is June 2006.
"Gov. Perry's failure to act is unconscionable.
"I am here today to release disturbing information found during my investigation about the deaths, poisonings, rapes and pregnancies of children in our state's foster care system.
"I found, from information provided by the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, in Fiscal 2003, 30 foster children died in our state's care; in Fiscal 2004, 38 foster children died; and in Fiscal 2005, 48 foster children died.
"Data shows that while the number of foster children in our state's care increased 24 percent from 26,133 in Fiscal 2003 to 32,474 in Fiscal 2005, the number of deaths increased 60 percent. "If you compare the number of deaths of children in our state's population to the number of deaths in our state's foster care system, a child is four times more likely to die in our state's foster care system. "Based on Fiscal 2004 data provided by the Health and Human Services Commission, about 100 children received treatment for poisoning from medications; 63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system; and 142 children gave birth while in the state foster care system.
"As alarming as these cases are, we can only imagine how much worse the Fiscal 2005 data is because Gov. Perry's Health and Human Services Commission has refused to provide the data needed to complete my investigation.
"When I called on Gov. Perry in October 2004 to create a Crisis Management Team, I said the crisis was minute-by-minute and child-by-child.
"In Fiscal 2004, four-year old twin boys living in the same foster home received medical treatment in the hospital for rape. "A five-year old boy in the same foster home received medical treatment in the hospital for rape two days later.
"A 15-year old girl who was not pregnant when she entered our state's foster care system in May 2002 gave birth in February 2004.
"The state is supposed to be protecting our forgotten children, but in all too many cases these children are taken from one abusive situation and placed in another abusive situation. Many children are in more abusive situations now than they were before the state intervened. Children are being neglected and abused and are dying.
"As reported by the media, a 12-year-old boy died in December 2005, while in our state's care at a facility that treats children with learning disabilities and emotional problems. The boy suffocated while being restrained from behind by an employee of the facility.
"Another boy in our state's care at the same facility died May 30, after drowning in a creek during a May 6 bicycle outing.
"A three-year old was treated for poisoning from an atypical, mind-altering antipsychotic drug. These drugs are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration for children under the age of 18 years old.
"Gov. Perry's failure to create a Crisis Management Team is unconscionable. The crisis is minute-by-minute and child-by-child. I renew my call. He must act now to save children's lives.
"I discovered the alarming number of deaths, poisonings, rapes and pregnancies while conducting my investigation into potential prescription drug fraud and abuse in the state's foster care system.
"I launched my investigation in November 2004, after my report, Forgotten Children, uncovered the fact that large numbers of psychotropic drugs are being prescribed to children in the foster care system, even though, according to the FDA, many of these drugs are not approved for children and have serious side effects such as suicidal tendencies, diabetes, and cardiac arrhythmia.
"Since that time, repeated and continuing roadblocks and stonewalling have been encountered by me and my staff in attempting to secure basic and necessary data from the Health and Human Services Commission to complete my investigation.
"It has been 19 months and 25 letters, emails, meetings and phone calls since I first requested foster care and corresponding Medicaid data from HHSC.
"The Commission finally provided Fiscal 2004 data. But, 10 months into Fiscal 2006, we have yet to receive the Fiscal 2005 data, which we know has been available for months and months.
"In March 2006, I requested all of the same data for Fiscal 2005.
"The Governor's commission has repeatedly thrown up roadblocks and stonewalled my investigation.
"We have had a signed Memorandum of Understanding, drafted by HHSC, at its offices since May 2005, agreeing in the Commission's own language to the confidentiality of this information.
"Claiming confidentiality, HHSC to this day refuses to cooperate and provide the Fiscal 2005 data needed to complete my investigation, despite that the statute requires that they cooperate and the Court of Appeals ruled on June 16 that HHSC's view about the confidentiality of its records is clearly wrong.
"What I have found from the information that was made available should be and is of grave concern, but the picture painted by Gov. Perry's Health and Human Services Commission's secret 2005 data must paint an even grimmer picture on all fronts.
"The people of Texas can handle the truth. What they will not tolerate is Gov. Perry's callous indifference in hiding the truth and placing our forgotten children at high risk.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/news/60623statement.html

Glow, you must have missed my post. You keep talking about statistics, and I have asked for the statistics for Tom Green county CPS. How many abuse cases while in care? How many child rapes while in care? How many deaths of children in care? What is the child/caseworker ratio in Tom Green county (though I would imagine that child/caseworker statistics did go up recently, lol) Tom Green County is who is responsible for providing the care for the children, not Dallas or whereever.
 
  • #412
Glow-

I also think- due to the unique nature of this case - that they are not putting kids willy nilly into this system. I am sure that there are abuses of the system, but b/c the nat'l spotlight is on this they are going to do EVERYTHING they can to protect these children
 
  • #413
Glow, you must have missed my post. You keep talking about statistics, and I have asked for the statistics for Tom Green county CPS. How many abuse cases while in care? How many child rapes while in care? How many deaths of children in care? What is the child/caseworker ratio in Tom Green county (though I would imagine that child/caseworker statistics did go up recently, lol) Tom Green County is who is responsible for providing the care for the children, not Dallas or whereever.


I saw your post. I just didnt realize that you wanted me to answer you, sorry!:blowkiss:

I havent looked up the rates of any counties. I have just barely begun looking at Texas CPS. In the end these children wont all be in Tom Green county foster homes anyhow. The state of Texas is experiencing a double whammy crisis, not enough foster homes and funding, too many kids needing to be added to the system. It has already been stated that the children of FLDS will probably be fostered out all over the state of Texas.

Additionally, the CPS is state run not county.
 
  • #414
Glow-

I also think- due to the unique nature of this case - that they are not putting kids willy nilly into this system. I am sure that there are abuses of the system, but b/c the nat'l spotlight is on this they are going to do EVERYTHING they can to protect these children


I hope that you are right galvino!

As far as the national spotlight that always seems to fade once the drama is over doesn't it?
 
  • #415
I have avoided posting what my area of expertise on this subject is on purpose. I didn't want that to lend any weight to OR take away from anyone's feeling free to post their thoughts. But I do have a vested interest in this subject.

The most favorable climate for changing things for the better is in understanding the way the "other person" (our adversary) thinks. Only when we have climbed down the ladder of our own "elevated" thinking to the rung where our adversary is in THEIR thinking, do we reach their minds. The trick then is to lead them up the ladder to what "we" think is a better place to be.

Glow, honestly, many people have tried to engage with you but it is impossible to get a grasp on where you are coming from. You say you have a vested interest here; well, what is it? You have no power to give or take away anyone's freedom to post their own thoughts, that's ridiculous. But any weight you could lend to your position would be helpful, as it might enable us to understand what your position is.

I know it is not about Texas CPS, as I have been reading this thread for two weeks, and you are only bringing that up now as something to latch onto. Are you in some sort of similiar situation that makes you fear a raid? Are you worried about family members? What is it?

What rung of your hypothetical ladder do you see yourself on? People are going out of their way to try to understand what you are thinking.
 
  • #416
I hope that you are right galvino!

As far as the national spotlight that always seems to fade once the drama is over doesn't it?

You are right about the spotlight fading. Unfortunately, those that seem to want to change the system also seem to fade away when the drama goes away too.

The system does need help, it needs changing. Our children are our future, and each and every one of them deserves the protection of the government and every citizen. If you want to help change the system, then do so...write to your state representatives, your congressmen, etc. Ask them where they are spending your tax money and how much of it is going for the protection of children and these "lost children" in foster care. It's a valid question. The unbelievable amounts of money they spend on pork barrel projects are mind boggling. It could be better spent to change/improve the system for these children, all across the nation. Foster care is in crisis in most states.

http://www.progressivestates.org/co...ren-behind-some-states-failing-in-foster-care
 
  • #417
Please allow me to explain my view of Polygamy- not that I want to justify that in our culture, but...

I adopted 4 young men from southern Sudan, and yes- this culture is thousands of yrs old and practices polygamy- but after being exposed to our f'd up culture and, being able to return to their own villages, they are so happy with the concept of CHOICE... and none want to perpetuate the myth. I actually tend to disagree with them b/c I feel that USA can influence unfairly.
 
  • #418
Has anyone else taken the time to go to YouTube and listen to the "training" from Warren Jeffs to LITTLE GIRLS (under age 14) in a "home economics" classroom in one of the "compounds"? It was taped so it could be played for ALL the little future child brides everywhere (and a good thing, since it was used at his trial)...

Thanks for sharing that link. I listened and seen the videos. I'm disgusted! That is some SICK chit!:eek::sick::banghead::furious::eek:
 
  • #419
Please allow me to explain my view of Polygamy- not that I want to justify that in our culture, but...

I adopted 4 young men from southern Sudan, and yes- this culture is thousands of yrs old and practices polygamy- but after being exposed to our f'd up culture and, being able to return to their own villages, they are so happy with the concept of CHOICE... and none want to perpetuate the myth. I actually tend to disagree with them b/c I feel that USA can influence unfairly.

What an interesting life perspective you must have from your experience with them. How do you feel that we in the USA influence unfairly?
 
  • #420
This is way beyond the normal and usual protocol of CPS. How many cases are there in which CPS went into an abusive home and removed the source of the suspected abuse, left the child in the home, and then monitored the home. All this without knowing if the mother was also an abuser or an enabler to the abuser, or acting to protect someone/something? Under these conditions the child is left in an environment they may fear, the mothers would be free to counsel their children to lie, and the end result may be leaving a child in an abusive situation because they're afraid to speak, have been told not to speak, and everything is swept under the rug.

In this case, as with all other cases, the CPS did exactly what they are supposed to do - remove a child from a residence in which abuse is suspected. The child is put in a neutral place, away from the abusive environment, where they're comfortable in talking about the abuse.

Under normal circumstances, a child removed from an abusive home, will speak with the social workers and identify the abuse. In these cases, a child usually knows the difference between right and wrong, abuse and non-abuse.

But in this case, the children have been raised in such an insulated environment they don't know what is normal and what is not normal. Their mothers don't seem to know what is normal and what isn't normal......they can't distinguish what is abuse and what is not abuse. And in addition, the mothers seem to have put the protection of their "religion" above the protection of their children.

We've seen pictures of the children that were removed from the FLDS ranch. They seem happy, playing on playground equipment and playing ball on the grass. People who've worked with them report that they're happy. The only negative comments have come from the mothers, who have an agenda.

Rather than fault the CPS, we should be commending them for doing their best in a difficult situation.

I agree!:clap:
 
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