Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[Trino]

A speaker on Nancy Grace suggested that the reason very few had the DNA tests was because the men & women knew they were NOT the parents of the children but taken from other compounds.

Since Jeffs hand picked who was to live at Eldorado, I'm guessing this is true. To substantiate what you've said, there was a man who drove 1200 miles to be tested. He said 3 (I think 3) of the kids were his.

 

[SuziQ]

:banghead: I remember reading a true crime novel a long time ago about a similar compound in Mexico. They chose Mexico as the Morman Church in Utah had in essence turned their back on the polygamist group. It made the leader very mad and he had some of his followers kill some of the Mormans who had openly spoken out against them. When it looked like law enforcement was closing in on them they fled to Mexico and tried to make a similar compound as found in El Dorado. I cannot remember the name of the book.
Does anyone here remember reading about such a group in Mexico?

You are probably talking about this guy. It was not the Mormon church who pissed him off. The Mormon Church turned their back on polygamy in 1890. It was a splinter within his own group. His brother was one and started his own sect. This guy was one sick puppy. Had his own pregnant daughter executed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron

 

[cheko1]

Since Jeffs hand picked who was to live at Eldorado, I'm guessing this is true. To substantiate what you've said, there was a man who drove 1200 miles to be tested. He said 3 (I think 3) of the kids were his.

Yes I also read about him in one of the news articles posted here, he did say 3 kids were his.

 

[Pepper]

Yes I also read about him in one of the news articles posted here, he did say 3 kids were his.

This is that Williams person. He said he was no longer FLDS, but won't say why. Did he leave voluntarily or was he kicked out? I think the latter, but he is still true to the FLDS beliefs. Weird.

 

[Trino]

This is that Williams person. He said he was no longer FLDS, but won't say why. Did he leave voluntarily or was he kicked out? I think the latter, but he is still true to the FLDS beliefs. Weird.

He was probably kicked out because the leaders saw him as a threat. I tried to find the article again but could not. I don't recall where the mother was.

Is he one of the few parents willing to fight for his kids?

 

[Leila]

A speaker on Nancy Grace suggested that the reason very few had the DNA tests was because the men & women knew they were NOT the parents of the children but taken from other compounds.

I think that's very likely. It's been stated by many that Warren Jeffs took children age 6 and under to the YFZ ranch.

 

[mollymalone]

SNIP Only the most "trusted" women are allowed outside the fence.

That's why I believe the women who were paraded around on tv, showing the interior of part of the housing on the compound or being interviewed on the shows were the set peice for their pr. They were the women they "trusted" to spin the mantra.

Edited to add: if reports are true and the compounds are emptying, that's not good news for children still in their custody.

 

[Leila]

:banghead: I remember reading a true crime novel a long time ago about a similar compound in Mexico. They chose Mexico as the Morman Church in Utah had in essence turned their back on the polygamist group. It made the leader very mad and he had some of his followers kill some of the Mormans who had openly spoken out against them. When it looked like law enforcement was closing in on them they fled to Mexico and tried to make a similar compound as found in El Dorado. I cannot remember the name of the book.
Does anyone here remember reading about such a group in Mexico?

Have you gone to one of the websites for survivors of the FLDS? You might find the book there, or there might be an email address where you could send an inquiry.

 

[mysteriew]

Mysteri, I think everyone here speaks with a lot of assurance, don't you? We all have been able to read the same things. The link I read is the one in the San Angelo paper. When Angie Voss was asked

Can you identify any households in which a child was caused serious injury or death?

she replied "Yes"

she also said

"There were some suspected broken bones"


If we break this down logically, her answers are interesting. The first question asks about serious injury OR death. She answers "yes" There has been absolutely no one who has come forward saying there have been any deaths. So that leaves us with the other part of the question. As to her answer about "serious injury", if Angie Voss feels she is looking at evidence of child rape then she can logically answer that question yes. Which she did.

Her only requirement under law is that she has to have reason to suspect. Not proof....just a "reason". That reason could be a lot of things. It could be the blond hair found on the bed in the temple area. It could be a pregnant girl she saw in the compound. It could be practically anything. The only point is she HAD to say something made her decide to move the children and that is what she did. Her careful wording was evident once again when she was asked if any of the children had broken bones, injuries or malnutrition that showed up in medical examinations.

We know that when Dr's at Fort Concho examined the children they said the children were healthy, Dr. Smith in fact went so far as to say they were exceptionally healthy they had no injuries or malnutrition so she could not say yes to that part of the question so she answers "There were some suspected broken bones."

That was a good political answer. I could suspect my next door neighbor is from Mars but that has absolutely no validity and neither does her answer. As a matter of fact everything everyone BUT her has said about the children is exactly the opposite. Later when she is asked what the danger is to having the younger children returned she doesn't mention the "serious abuse" OR the "suspected" broken bones. Instead she says her concern is "a global pattern that underage marriage and children having children is permitted."

So she never does come right out and say there was ANY witnessed abuse of the younger children in any way. She is concerned about "future" abuse. That's it.

In any "juicy" trial or hearing there are ALWAYS leaks. That is just life. If there was any physical abuse noted with the young children we would have heard rumors flying like mad and we haven't. Instead we have been told by medical experts (which Ms Voss is not) that they are instead, exceptionally healthy. That is why I said above that there is no abuse of the young children at YFZ.

So basically what you are saying is that you are getting your info from the media, and since we know there is a gag order in place and that info released is being severely limited, that basically you also don't know what evidence they may or may not have either?

I personally don't take Voss's statement as saying they don't have evidence. I pretty much take Voss's statement as that she is limiting how much she is going to say to media.

LOL, many speak with assurance here. But they back up their words with links to news articles or info publically available. Only two here have claimed any connection to the events. One of those explained her connection. Only one that I have seen has claimed 'expertise and a vested interest' without explanation.

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/subpoenas-to-help-see-whether-sects-100m-trust/
Subpoenas to help see whether sect's $100M trust was drained to fund YFZ Ranch, improvements

 

[barb0301]

Children now arriving in San Antonio, per the local news, All FLDS children will be separated from other children housed at the 4 facilities being used in San Antonio

 

[cook78]

I wish we still lived in Colorado. They are playing the recording of the telephone calls allegedly made by a woman who may have played a part in the raid on a Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints church compound in West Texas.


On the News this evening at 10.... http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=90441

(Maybe I missed it, are those tapes linked here somewhere? I'd love to hear them)

 

[cheko1]

This is that Williams person. He said he was no longer FLDS, but won't say why. Did he leave voluntarily or was he kicked out? I think the latter, but he is still true to the FLDS beliefs. Weird.

I haven't heard if he left on his own or not. He speaks very high of the FLDS & his ex wife following it. Considering if he left or was kicked out he couldn't see his kids again. I thought that was real odd.....

 

[mysteriew]

I haven't heard if he left on his own or not. He speaks very high of the FLDS & his ex wife following it. Considering if he left or was kicked out he couldn't see his kids again. I thought that was real odd.....

Even though he said he was an ex-member, I wondered if perhaps he wasn't a member who was left behind to oversee the FLDS interests. His ex-wife may have been a wife that he didn't get along with or that he felt needed extra supervision. Or it could even have been that someone of higher status might have coveted that wife.

 

[cheko1]

I think that's very likely. It's been stated by many that Warren Jeffs took children age 6 and under to the YFZ ranch.

So that leads me to another question. Would it possibly be considered kidnapping? Its against the law for parents to just give there children away isn't it without a legal adoption?

What a tangled web. No wonder they're all disbanning & headed out of the USA!

 

[mysteriew]

Opinion piece. I love the title

Polygamists spin it their way

It talks about the FLDS secrecy pre raid vs. their alleged openness now. And also discusses the effect on public opinion.

 

[mysteriew]

I'm wondering when they get to whereever they are going, will they be able to look each other in the eye- knowing they each and every one abandoned their children?

 

[cheko1]

Even though he said he was an ex-member, I wondered if perhaps he wasn't a member who was left behind to oversee the FLDS interests. His ex-wife may have been a wife that he didn't get along with or that he felt needed extra supervision. Or it could even have been that someone of higher status might have coveted that wife.

Good point!
Today I was going reading some of the great links our posters have posted. I read that if a man couldn't control his wife or wives in every way. He would be replaced immediately by a new husband & sent packing.

I got the impression he was still very much FLDS. But hadn't seen his kids in 3 years. I also tried finding the story to post the link but it was gone.

 

[philamena]

I'm wondering when they get to whereever they are going, will they be able to look each other in the eye- knowing they each and every one abandoned their children?

Really shows the love and concern they have for the children doesn't it?

 

[Vegas Bride]

Really shows the love and concern they have for the children doesn't it?

They remind me of a farmer tending his cash crop. If something happens and the crop is destroyed he just begins planting the next one. IMO the women will become pregnant asap.

VB