Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[Floh]

According to this article the phone number linked to Rozita was the same number traced to a call made to a crisis center in Texas before the raid even happened. So the likelyhood is great that her call led to the raid.

Who in this day and age doesn't know L.E. can trace calls? as if.

the idea anyone could be stupid enough to make a hoax call using a number associated with them and expect themselves not to be found out suggests they are lacking, somewhat, in the mental competency department. which must be so to make such a call in the first place, of course.

 

[Leila]

Carolyn Jessop talked about Merrill Jessops abuse and holding the children under water. She's not the only one from the FLDS who speaks of this.

http://www.childbrides.org/dakota_CCC_trial_will_set_precedent_for_years.html
Cora Fischer, who also grew up in the FLDS in Colorado City, Ariz., became a second wife at age 14. Her husband would discipline his children by holding them under water until they passed out. He once held the inside of his daughter’s arm against a light bulb until her skin melted, according to Fischer. To teach his daughters about sexuality he would demonstrate on himself.

When her husband’s first wife was diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumor, her doctor insisted she not have any more children, as that would rob her of precious life resources. However, because polygamist women are supposed to have a child a year, she was not given that choice. Instead, she gave birth to three more babies — the last while she lay unconscious, as her life ebbed out of her and she died.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief at the horrific practices of the FLDS and the fact that they consider themselves a religious group.

 

[FlowerChild]

OK, I wish everyone would please stop with the whole "sounds like" or not thing. It either SOUNDS LIKE the woman accused or not - and we aren't going to find that answer HERE! It doesn't MATTER, the courts have already said the children were removed because of what they observed after paying a visit to try and locate "Sarah". They were on the property to CHECK OUT a complaint and found other problems...for which they got a 2nd COURT ORDER. THE END!

There were almost 50 underage pregnant girls and underage mothers with a child or children at the YFZ Ranch ALONE. There are no doubt MORE of them elsewhere - and we still have NO PROOF which children at the YFZ Ranch BELONG biologically to which MOTHERS OR FATHERS (if they belong to ANY of the adults). THIS IS A PROBLEM! Adult MEN are having sex with CHILDREN (teenagers) and impregnating them - almost 50 that WE KNOW OF. I do not see how WE or CPS can ignore that FACT and suggest it doesn't matter and should just be put aside for the benefit of the "Group" their religion or their beliefs/lifestyle. This many underage mothers in a group of say 600 (462 of which are CHLDREN under 18) people is not a "fluke" or a misunderstanding - nor did this occur because of ignorance of human reproduction or because the real age of the girls was unknown. BEFORE these girls were impregnated every single one of them was sealed in plural celestial marriage inside that "temple" with the bed inside to a MAN - AN ADULT MAN. And we KNOW that a sex act DID OCCUR - because they become pregnant. HOW can any rational adult sane person look at this and say it's excusable, acceptable or something we should just "ignore" because it's "none of our business" or might be misconstrued as "persecution of religion".

It should NEVER be acceptable to hide SEX CRIMES behind a smokescreen of God or faith - and that's what the FLDS would LIKE us all to do - just look the other way and allow them to go about their lives and continue teaching young girls to "be sweet" and obey their fathers and husbands so they can all get into heaven.

If THAT'S really heaven, I'll just have to pass.

My Opinion

 

[golfmom]

I can't use one I have stored on my computer? :waitasec:

Just load it on photobucket. You can get a free account there to host your pictures. That's what I did.

 

[Leila]

I believe they are already in state custody. But there was the original 18-20 that were underage and pregnant. And now they were able to locate 25 more pregnant, underage teens.

Are these the women who at first lied about their age and said they were 18 or 19, who later admitted they were under 18? Or are there more on top of those?

 

[golfmom]

May I ask a question along another train of thought?

Earlier, when we were discussing the finances of the FLDS, it was mentioned in an article that the compound in Texas had never filed for tax-exempt status as a 'church'. I am wondering if anyone knows how to find out if they are in fact listed as a church in any state (or nationally), or if they are a for-profit corporation, or just a private family, or what?

Does anyone know? TIA!

I'll poke around a bit to see if I can find out if they have non-profit status. I know that the UEP trust fund has in excess of $100M.

 

[golfmom]

Are these the women who at first lied about their age and said they were 18 or 19, who later admitted they were under 18? Or are there more on top of those?

Since the number of children in custody rose, I would have to assume that the 25 that they just determined pregnant or with babies under 18 are ADDED to the original group of pregnant and/or mothers that were identified initially.

 

[mollymalone]

I read an article in a link a few pages back about a "Teresa" who testified in the Jeffs trial and helped put him away. She escaped the Canadian cult and now her heavily financed "husband" is seeking full custody of her children, with her paying child support. (This is a punishment because she left the cult and testified against Jeffs)

She lives in the USA and barely makes enough to pay her rent, let alone fight the FDLS attorneys that have endless resources. I say, why aren't some of these Pro Bono attorneys that are very generously helping out in TX helping this poor woman that is trying to protect her children and show them a new life, with education and music and laughter.

I tell you it is breaking my heart to think of her worrying that that cult will take her children away! Can we help her? Someone needs to help her.

By the way, thank you Mollymalone for all the great links, you are great.:woohoo:

Thanks
http://www.childbrides.org/Teresa_Wall_Blackmore_fundraiser.html
HOPE Organization is helping her raise money for this child custody battle.
Information is inlcuded on how to help.

 

[Leila]

Journalist on CNN quoted the "When Men become Gods" author. "The author does believe there is or was a birthing center on that ranch and that could be why there were no birth certificates. There was so much inbreeding and incest, a lot of babies died early. Outside of Jeff's log cabin ..."

*Molly says (I don't know whether this is in reference to Jeff's house in Colorado City)*

"there was an actual graveyard of the babies who had died shortly after childbirth, from an illness they get from inbreeding."

The first thing I though of when reading your post...........I wonder if those poor babies just died, or did they have help dying.

 

[golfmom]

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2008/apr/16/opinions-differ-flds-classification/

But neither the FLDS nor the YFZ Ranch — scene of suspected child sexual and physical abuse — has filed for status as a nonprofit organization with the IRS, an IRS spokesman said.

In Schleicher County, records reflect the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas, has not requested an exemption from property taxes as a religious organization, an option for qualifying property.

The YFZ Ranch’s property tax tab adds up to $1 million from 2004 when the sect first began paying property taxes through 2007, according to the Schleicher County Appraisal District.

The tax bill raises the question of how the compound is being funded. So far, answers are scant.

Whatever the taxman’s viewpoint, an expert on Mormon splinter groups considers FLDS a church.

................
A constitutional law professor agreed FLDS is a church.

But Douglas Laycock of the University of Michigan didn’t think FLDS’s status as a church would make any difference in court or in determining whether the raid on the sect in Schleicher County was lawful.

“If there’s probable cause, the government can search churches like anyplace else,” Laycock said.

 

[mollymalone]

I'm shaking my head in disbelief at the horrific practices of the FLDS and the fact that they consider themselves a religious group.

You know, before Jeffs took over, these people were allowed to worship in a church. When he came along he denied them this right while holding them to his edicts. They've never sought exempt status etc.. and with the teachings he's been preaching about, I'm having a hard time considering their beliefs a religion. It's more like hate speech to me. He hates his followers and denies them their human rights under our constititution. He hates African Americans and gays and the rest of us. That's not religious beliefs in my book, it's pure racism.

There's been several articles I've read by former members who stated that in the decade before he took over he taped the "confessions" that were supposed to be private between them and their "prophet" and has been using them to black mail them with to get money or their cooperation. They and I believe this is why a lot more of them who would like to leave haven't. Even with Jeffs in jail, this is being used to manipulate many of them imo.

Edited to add: any group of people who condone the widespread abuse of children, that say you can "do anything short of murder" to them, are not a religion in my eyes.

 

[LinasK]

I don't care what your master degree is in!

Ebonics isn't spoken by all blacks and to imply it is, is ridiculous!!!

Once again, I never said that. That's something you and Golfmom implied, that never came from me.

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2008/apr/16/opinions-differ-flds-classification/

But neither the FLDS nor the YFZ Ranch — scene of suspected child sexual and physical abuse — has filed for status as a nonprofit organization with the IRS, an IRS spokesman said.

In Schleicher County, records reflect the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado, Texas, has not requested an exemption from property taxes as a religious organization, an option for qualifying property.

The YFZ Ranch’s property tax tab adds up to $1 million from 2004 when the sect first began paying property taxes through 2007, according to the Schleicher County Appraisal District.

The tax bill raises the question of how the compound is being funded. So far, answers are scant.

Whatever the taxman’s viewpoint, an expert on Mormon splinter groups considers FLDS a church.

................
A constitutional law professor agreed FLDS is a church.

But Douglas Laycock of the University of Michigan didn’t think FLDS’s status as a church would make any difference in court or in determining whether the raid on the sect in Schleicher County was lawful.

“If there’s probable cause, the government can search churches like anyplace else,” Laycock said.

They may have in the beginning started out as a church, but their practices over time have turned them into a cult IMO and there are experts who agree with that viewpoint.

 

[Truly]

I'll poke around a bit to see if I can find out if they have non-profit status. I know that the UEP trust fund has in excess of $100M.

Thanks! I also know that people can be 'certified' (I don't know the correct term) to perform marriages, etc. Is there some kind of state agency which grants 'licenses' (again, I'm not sure of the correct word) to groups or individuals who wish to become a church, in addition to the non-profit status for tax-exemption purposes?

I am just curious if the FLDS is actually a 'church' at all?

 

[mollymalone]

The first thing I though of when reading your post...........I wonder if those poor babies just died, or did they have help dying.

That's my thought too. How many died in childbirth and how many were helped along right afterwards or later.

 

[LinasK]

Sorry, but I feel your comments are stereotypical. Of course, there is/was Black English, but this is more of a class idea. There are many well educated Black persons who speak perfect English, and I would bet you would not be able to identify their race. You don't necessarily find educated Blacks using "I be..."

I have a friend who adopted a Black daughter, and she speaks just like her brothers and sisters. Speech is not a racial thing.

You, like the other two posters have missed my point. I have never said that it was solely based on Black English or Ebonics alone, that is just one factor and I never said that all blacks speak that way. But there are distinctive speech patterns and factors like pitch. Believe me, I could tell if Barack Obama called me vs. another white male or black male.

 

[mollymalone]

Thanks! I also know that people can be 'certified' (I don't know the correct term) to perform marriages, etc. Is there some kind of state agency which grants 'licenses' (again, I'm not sure of the correct word) to groups or individuals who wish to become a church, in addition to the non-profit status for tax-exemption purposes?

I am just curious if the FLDS is actually a 'church' at all?

That's a great point! Who's performing the "legal" marriages of that sect?? If it's someone like Jeffs, does he have a license to perform them?

 

[golfmom]

Once again, I never said that. That's something you and Golfmom implied, that never came from me.

You ASKED me what my concerns were. I replied by posing questions as to why I don't think that it's universally possible for race to be determined by speech alone. I NEVER implied YOU said ANYTHING. I NEVER attributed any of the questions or concerns I had to YOU personally.

Now you've come back on and IMPLIED that's exactly what I did.

 

[Leila]

According to this article the phone number linked to Rozita was the same number traced to a call made to a crisis center in Texas before the raid even happened. So the likelyhood is great that her call led to the raid.

http://cbs4denver.com/local/swinton.polygamist.false.2.706769.html

An arrest warrant affidavit made public today shows that one phone number used to report alleged abuse at a polygamist retreat in Texas had been used previously by a Colorado woman.

The affidavit says a call was placed from that phone number to a crisis center in Texas before authorities there raided the retreat of a renegade Mormon sect and removed more than 400 children.

The affidavit shows that 33-year-old Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs used the same number previously, but it's not clear if authorities suspect Swinton of making calls that led to the raid.

This is scary! The Texas police really NEED to know if Rozita made that call. If she made the call, then that settles the matter. But if she didn't make the call..........that means there is a young girl out there that may be in harms way.

 

[believe09]

May I ask a question along another train of thought?

Earlier, when we were discussing the finances of the FLDS, it was mentioned in an article that the compound in Texas had never filed for tax-exempt status as a 'church'. I am wondering if anyone knows how to find out if they are in fact listed as a church in any state (or nationally), or if they are a for-profit corporation, or just a private family, or what?

Does anyone know? TIA!

I thought they were for profit-didn't something come out about Jeffs holding government contracts with his factory??