Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

  • #61
Reposting

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...273157,00.html

Reid asks AG to review federal efforts regarding polygamous communities

I wanted to comment on this last night before the new thread was started.........

WASHINGTON — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has asked U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey to review the federal efforts to stop child abuse or other criminal activity in polygamous communities.

Reid said the raid earlier this month at the Fundamentalist LDS Church ranch in Eldorado, Texas, "illustrates the depth of the problem and the pressing need for federal leadership to combat this problem."


I hope the attorney general takes this request seriously. A federal task-force into child abuse and criminal activities of the various FLDS communities operating in a number of states could go a long way to reduce the problem.


I don't think it will end polygamy, but it will go a long way to stopping abuses. I don't think the FLDS can stand up to federal scrutiny, and certainly couldn't continue to function as they have with an oversight committee.
 
  • #62

Comprehensive and full answer to my question. thank you so much.

no it cannot be allowed for these children to enter such a hopeless existence ever again. and to the point: time to rescue the others elsewhere, i say. :furious: :furious: :furious:
 
  • #63
Eww he looks deformed or like there might be a little something wrong with him? (besides the obvious lol) Then again all the women I been seeing on TV look sick too. They look terrible. I think they need vitamins or something? Maybe it's the in-breeding.

HAHAHAHAA!!!! Sorry, you may not have meant that to be funny, but I had to laugh.

Jeffs seems to be such a cocky b@stard, I can't stand him. And the fact that he still seems to be in charge, while in prison, makes my blood boil.
 
  • #64
If the parent has not been deemed unfit, the child will go where the parents go - that is the law and it is a good one. The government does not get to decide what is best for the child - the parent does.
Actually, depending on the age of the child and the information obtained in discovery the lawyer for the CHILD (not the parents) can ASK for the child to remain in foster care for the best interest of the child. It doesn't mean that the JUDGE will agree, but the child's lawyer can take the request/preference of the child under consideration when going to court. The lawyer is SUPPOSED to be the CHILD's LAWYER, not the parent's (they have their OWN lawyer).

And if the child would be returned to an ENVIRONMENT where previous abuse has been proven OR the child would/could be endangered by the collective and cooperative "group" also living in the same place OR could be exposed to persons who are known abusers ANYWHERE within the organization at ANY TIME - the courts may NOT allow the parents to just take the child anywhere or live in a communal situation with other (known or unknown) members of such an organization. This will probably end up being defined as kids being placed at RISK of condoned and approved ABUSE by a GROUP of people who cannot be controlled by the parents. The KIDS are NOT BEING PROTECTED - by ORDER of the organization. It isn't a situation where you have ONE ABUSER or offender - but a collective and organized GROUP of offenders who either participate in abuse or cannot or refuse to protect their children from the abusers.

Think of it like returning a school of children to an island where there are ONLY 100 adults who have been involved or have participated (or facilitated) previous abuse, rape and torture/mistreatment of children in their care. Even if the group contains their parents and the parents are NOT proven to be abusers personally and certainly FREE to live there, they cannot be permitted to take their children with them if they chose to keep residing with and near OTHER abusers....because these parents APPROVE of such abuses and do NOT find the others in the organization objectionable OR abusive does NOT give them the right to expose their kids to such and environment. And we already know that evidently parents in this group are interchangeable - what's to keep the approved parents from leaving their children with someone else and going off to live elsewhere for a year or two? Without oversight the kids end up right back where they started - with the COURTS's approval this time.

We cannot apply any previous known logic or standards to THIS CASE. This is like trying to corral the wind - it isn't going to be easy, if even possible. This isn't domestic abuse or even one or two endangered children in a single family home with one abuser and an absent/unsuitable mother. This is literally over 425 kids of all ages possible abused by a COLLECTIVE of ADULTS including the cooperation of their parental figures and encouraged by the LEADERSHIP of the group. These families live under the constant OVERSIGHT of Men who ENFORCE ABUSE at every level - of women and of children. The women have NO CONTROL, no education, no income and no escape. The can't just drive away and remove themselves or their children from the abuse because they are monitored 24/7/365 - and housed in a remote place where privacy, phone calls and all communication is controlled by OTHERS. We already know that even the vehicles the women are allowed access to are kept with very little fuel - so as to "prevent" escape from the compound.

Oh yeah, I think we should just give all those "innocent" parents "free will" to take those kiddies wherever they want. Sorry - in THIS CASE NO!

I am all for PARENT'S RIGHTS and their rights to educate and parent their children in their faith or belief system - so LONG AS THE CHILDREN ARE NOT ABUSED or passed around like party hats. Systematic ABUSE and an environment of ABUSE by OTHERS (not the parents) is NOT NEGOTIABLE for ANY CHILD! Regardless of what the parents believe.

My Opinion
 
  • #65
Eww he looks deformed or like there might be a little something wrong with him? (besides the obvious lol) Then again all the women I been seeing on TV look sick too. They look terrible. I think they need vitamins or something? Maybe it's the in-breeding.

They are crying out for exfoliation and moisturizer. Oh, and sunscreen!
 
  • #66
  • #67
They are crying out for exfoliation and moisturizer. Oh, and sunscreen!

I checked out some close up pictures taken of the women who were interviewed, and while some appear to be quite young, in their 30's, a close up picture revealed a lot of lines. It must be the hours of working outside in the hot sun.

Now.......I'm older than the women pictured, but I don't have the lines they have and I live in a hot, dry climate.
 
  • #68
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3152807


Now there may be very little room to doubt the phone call which prompted the FLDS raid in Texas was a hoax. An affidavit was unsealed in Colorado Springs showing several calls were made from cell phones belonging to Rozita Swinton. The document reveals that a Texas shelter received 16 calls in a week from a woman claiming to be "Sarah Barlow." Swinton has been named a "person of interest" in the Texas investigation. (more at link)
 
  • #69
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3155034

(snips)

Years after a polygamous sect founder banned books from the outside world, Colorado City is well on its way to having a library of its own. Stefanie Colgrove first dreamed up the idea only a few months ago, but the books have been pouring in with the support. "There's a lot of students here, high school students, who have been very excited because they have to go to St. George or Hurricane to do any kind of research," she explained, and that's an hour's drive.

The challenge now is to raise about $5,000 to bring the building up to city code. "We have a building, we just have to have it up to code, city code, we have to bring the plumbing and the electrical up to code," Colgrove said.
***

If you would like to help in the establishment of this new library, books and other help could be sent to:
Stefanie Colgrove
P.O. Box 1935
Hildale, Utah 84784 or in care of Charlotte at the Colorado City Post Office, Colorado City, AZ 86021.
 
  • #70
Actually, depending on the age of the child and the information obtained in discovery the lawyer for the CHILD (not the parents) can ASK for the child to remain in foster care for the best interest of the child. It doesn't mean that the JUDGE will agree, but the child's lawyer can take the request/preference of the child under consideration when going to court. The lawyer is SUPPOSED to be the CHILD's LAWYER, not the parent's (they have their OWN lawyer). .....

Yes, I understand that the Courts in this case will probably appoint a guardian ad litem for each child. In most states, the Court will also take a child's desires into account when the child is in the 12-14 range. In terms of considering viewpoints, most Courts historically look first to the guardian ad litem, second to the parent and finally to the child.

I do agree that this case will certainly bring about some new legal precedents in the areas of parents rights, children rights and the right to practice a faith of one's choosing (not to mention the rights of government to storm into a community on the word of a fraud).

I would think the younger children will probably just want to be with their parents, wherever they are. The older children will probably have strong personal opinions one way or another. I am curious to see how the women will respond. Some will like what they see out here, but others will want to go back.

It is going to take a long time to sort out - imo, by the time many of these issues are settled, some of the children will be grown. The family structure of the FLDS is so different than the norm - that piece alone will take forever to resolve.

I am sure that no one involved wishes to send the children back into an abusive environment, but I will be very surprised if this group does not re-congregate in some form of fashion. And - I suspect that if they cannot congregate with their own children among them, they will just have more.
 
  • #71
  • #72
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5728316.html

25 mothers taken from FLDS ranch now believed to be minors

SAN ANGELO, Texas — Twenty-five mothers staying at a shelter for children taken from a polygamists' compound are now believed to be minors.

Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar says the girls initially claimed to be adults but are now believed to be under 18. The girls are in state custody.
 
  • #73
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5728316.html

25 mothers taken from FLDS ranch now believed to be minors

SAN ANGELO, Texas — Twenty-five mothers staying at a shelter for children taken from a polygamists' compound are now believed to be minors.

Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar says the girls initially claimed to be adults but are now believed to be under 18. The girls are in state custody.

You see, NOTHING these people say is the TRUTH! The parents lie, the teenagers lie, the children lie. So now we have close to 40 or 50 GIRLS under 18 with CHILDREN conceived at ages 14 -17 by men they are NOT LEGALLY MARRIED TO at this ONE RANCH!

We can at least HOPE that the babies with these CHILDREN belong to the underage mother they are with??? Only DNA will tell for sure I guess...... And this naturally bring up the question of whether these underage girls have OTHER, OLDER children at large in the groups of children now removed to foster care? Having one infant with them is no guarantee that it is the 1st or only child. They may very well have MULTIPLE children by age 17 IN THIS GROUP.

This just gets sicker and sicker - and it has been permitted to go on for YEARS right under OUR NOSES. I am disgusted that this has been allowed to get this bad because the AUTHORITIES and LE were afraid of this group of fanatics! And it isn't like women who escaped haven't been speaking out and CRYING for help and support for a LONG TIME. WE KNEW and we just CHOSE to look away because it wasn't pretty and was going to be messy and hard and ugly and we didn't want to appear to be persecuting someone (or a group) because of their faith. THIS ISN'T FAITH, this is PERVERSION OF JUSTICE - not to mention suborning ABUSE because it's wrapped in a pretty religious package for public consumption..

TAKE THEM DOWN - ALL OF THEM, WHEREVER THEY ARE - and save those innocent, unprotected abused children from having to live one more day in such an environment, Wonder how many MORE pregnant or current mothers under age 18 are out there somewhere within this group?? 100, 200? Even one more is TOO MANY!

Excuse me while I :furious: and then :sick:

My Opinion
 
  • #74
One of the articles said 50 adults had shown up by Tuesday afternoon and there is no time limit for giving the DNA samples. Hopefully more have done so by now.
 
  • #75
Flower Child, where are you getting 40 or 50 from? The article says 25 and that's bad enough. Just wondering if I missed something.
 
  • #76
One of the articles said 50 adults had shown up by Tuesday afternoon and there is no time limit for giving the DNA samples. Hopefully more have done so by now.

Well it's probably taking a while to gather up and transport all the actual BIO parents to Eldorado from elsewhere. I mean they did take all their records and information so I betcha they are scrambling to remember who's kids are there - and figure out if they are from Husband A or B etc if the women have been "re-assigned" to new husbands along the way. And betcha SOME of the fathers and mothers aren't even IN the FLDS Church any more.

I LOVE DNA - i REALLY DO. For ONCE the truth will be undeniable! For ONCE these people will have to FACE the FACTS in a court of law where "being sweet" means NOTHING. They cannot wiggle out of THIS ONE - the DNA won't lie for them.

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better! It's like the ugliness is endless and we are now peering into a bottomless pit of it.

My Opinion
 
  • #77
Flower Child, where are you getting 40 or 50 from? The article says 25 and that's bad enough. Just wondering if I missed something.
If I understand correctly....
They already HAD (I believe) 18 in custody - add this to the new 25 that they have newly determined are ALSO under 18. 18 and 25 and thats 43 underage MOTHERS - either pregnant or with child in arms from the YFZ Ranch ALONE!.
 
  • #78
I'm afraid you did FC, the number of children has now jumped up to 462, because some of the girls were counted as women, which increases the number of minors with children and/or pregnant.

http://www.kvue.com/news/state/stories/042408kvuepolygamyupdate-cb.977d30d5.html
SAN ANGELO -- The number of children in Texas custody after being taken from a polygamist retreat now stands at 462 because officials believe another 25 mothers from the compound are under 18.
 
  • #79
  • #80
You see, NOTHING these people say is the TRUTH! The parents lie, the teenagers lie, the children lie. So now we have close to 40 or 50 GIRLS under 18 with CHILDREN conceived at ages 14 -17 by men they are NOT LEGALLY MARRIED TO at this ONE RANCH!...

I think they lie for many reasons. They feel attacked and persecuted. They do not know what is going on and what is going to happen to them and their children. The life they have known and made for years (and no matter how criminal we might consider that life, it is still a comfort and security to them) has ben ripped apart. They do not know if telling the turth will help them or hurt them. And on and on.

I can understand their terror and confusion. I can understand the lies. They do not trust the people who have taken them. Distrust does not engender open honest communication.

In the distant future the lives of these children and women may be better because of this dismantling of their way of life, but right now they can't see that and I wouldn't really expect them to.
 

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