Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[galvino]

Don't forget- Dateline is covering this tonight!

 

[Floh]

Don't forget- Dateline is covering this tonight!

Cheers, galvino. as i'm not in the broadcast area for Dateline anymore. i'll be grateful for anyone who would give a review of the show.

 

[Floh]

Hi Jute and mykodiak! Welcome to WS! (I'm fairly new myself). It is a really great forum, and I agree, the research and discussion here are excellent.

Interesting, Truly. i hadn't noticed your registration date and thought you'd been with us forever! :blowkiss:

 

[Jute]

Interesting, Truly. i hadn't noticed your registration date and thought you'd been with us forever! :blowkiss:

That's a good sign! I noticed that some people have been here since 2003. And I now have a total of 2 posts! :crazy:

 

[KOOL LOOK]

That's a good sign! I noticed that some people have been here since 2003. And I now have a total of 2 posts! :crazy:

All the posters you see with registration dates of august and september of 2003, were here before the "Big Crash" under the prior owner. That would be me. Dates after that are accurate.

Welcome Jute, this is the best forum on the internet, do check out our other private areas just for members, we discuss everything, including having a welcoming Prayer Thread. The Mods here are top notch. Hope you become family and hang around.

Truly, welcome to you also, haven't posted in the past on any topics with you so I wanted to do so, glad you guys are amongst us.

 

[Floh]

That's a good sign! I noticed that some people have been here since 2003. And I now have a total of 2 posts! :crazy:

I give you a week before you may break three figures!

This small corner of cyberspace is addictive. it's gone 1 a.m. where i live!

 

[Leila]

I am new to this site. I live in San Angelo. The FLDS situation is VERY real to me every day as more and more information is published. I was so horrified with the information that was being "put out there" by many bloggers in my local newspaper that I googled FLDS and found WebSleuth's. I knew that if I were to get valid information, I would have to do my own research and not depend on a few biased opinions inside my local paper's blog.

FlowerChild, I look forward to your posts because they reflect many of my own thoughts. Unfortunately, I have never been able to express my own thoughts as eloquently as you do.

I would like to THANK all of the regular posters here for the massive amount of information that you have provided along with the valuable links. I really appreciate your posts. Please don't give up on Texas authorities in their attempt to resolve this situation legally and in the best way possible for the future of the FLDS children. We are trying, but know it will be a long battle.

Welcome MyKodiak!

From all that I've seen, I think the Texas authorities have done an excellent job so far, dealing with a very difficult situation.

I'm way behind and just trying to catch up with this thread.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Cheers, galvino. as i'm not in the broadcast area for Dateline anymore. i'll be grateful for anyone who would give a review of the show.

I have it recorded.. I will give you a recap tonite in a seperate thread. probably within the next 2 hours.

 

[mostlylurking]

Maybe this is what being "saved" from "brainwashing" sounds like:

"Girls - this is for your own good. You've been hoodwinked I tell you - everything you believe is a lie and a sham. We're here to save you because that's what we do. Need references? Check with the Iraqis - we're saving the hell out of them.

Anyway, like we were saying, you need some genuine freedom in your lives - everything you've been doing is harmful to you sweet things. We'll start tonight with a bowl full of high fructose corn syrup covered in cows milk that's been loaded with bovine growth hormone. Yum!!! - sure, it might make you throw up and give you the runs, but you'll get used to it. This is America, for God's sake. Besides, we don't really pay our foster families enough to grow or purchase fresh organic food.

And about those families you're going to live with. They're awesome - all of them. CPS is all about protecting children and that's what we do - our record in spotless. I'm sorry you won't be able to go to the same place your sisters are going - y'all just have some BIG families - we're not really set up for that.

And we will have to get you some new clothes. You'll be going to school - that's right you are entitled to an terrific education free of charge paid for by the government - best schools in the world. But like we said, you'll need to get some new clothes if you want to fit it and we hope you will. With new clothes everyone'll be able to see that tramp stamp you're bound to have by the end of the first year! You will be learning SO much. And if you get knocked up, at least it'll be by a boy your own age like God intended (unless it's by a coach or teacher) and not some nasty old man who's your uncle or something.

I'm telling you girls, you've had it all wrong, but we've got it right. I promise you. We are going to give you so much freedom you won't know what to.......huh, what's that? You want to pray and sing before we eat? Now that's just strange, honey - try a little harder to fit in, will you? They're definitely not going to be into that at school tomorrow.....I mean you'll need to learn that some things aren't appropriate."

Yep, we Americans really got it going on, now down't we....

 

[Trino]

I just wonder if "our friends," the Saudis, are listening.

 

[Jolynna]

THE LAW SAYS 18! AS AN ADULT. It isn't our opinion, but the LAW! YOU MUST BE 18 OR have approval by a parent/guardian AND a JUDGE to be legally married. Kids - well THAT's kinda up to the woman isn't it? There is NO LAW one way or another about having children - or being married to have them or at what age. It IS illegal however, for a 13 year old GIRL to be having SEX - it happens, consensually, but that doesn't make it LEGAL. Again, not opinion...the law!

And Lets discuss "married" - by which I presume you mean married legally - in the eyes of the state. right? Well these little girls weren't married at all legally speaking...just SPIRITUALLY. That's because for a CHILD age 16 or 17 to get married legally her PARENTS must petition the court and a JUDGE must approve the marriage - and the FLDS sure wasn't gonna do THAT. So we have a pregnant 14 year old girl who is legally not old enough to consent to sex..and she obviously HAD SEX with SOMEONE. At that point does it really matter whether she is "old enough" to get married? It's a moot point. She is pregnant and too young to consent to sex, much less marriage.

And the Baby Daddy just happens to be age 57 and already spiritually married to 6 OTHER women and he has 55 children with them. Oh - 2 of the 6 wives are his 1st cousins and the pregnant girl is his STEPDAUGHTER with his #2 wife and ALSO his cousin. But hey, we should just let this be THEIR PRIVATE BUSINESS. We wouldn't want to disrupt the wholesome, pious, prayerful, innocence of that wonderful little family unit now would we. And wow, just THINK how wonderful and "sweet" and "clean" the country would be if we were all living the FLDS way....no sex except for procreation (with a "breeding chart" for each wife), no nudity...ever, even with one's spouse, no TV (except for religious videos), no music (except in Church), no toys (except for a trampoline), all home schooling with faith and morality and prayer built right in every day, but only to the 8th grade and ONLY reading the Bible and BOM. I think we should ALL try the FLDS way of life - heck, we might not even need to BE PARENTS then - what in the world are PARENTS needed for in such a controlled, clean, perfect world.....

Oh ...wait - didn't Germany TRY this whole "we'll just go off over here by ourselves...don't pay any attention to US, we're building a PURE perfect world, PURE perfect families, with PURE perfect children we'll raise in "our way" and hey "world" just leave us alone with our beliefs, OK" - thing (sans state sanctioned religion) in 1940 or so??

My Opinion

I put all adults who have sex with children in the "to catch a predator" pedophile category. It isn't ever ok. I think all adults (male and female) who indulge should be punished to the full extent of the law.

However, I have friends who are Amish and Mennonite who don't have electricity in their homes, musical instruments are forbidden by some sects and many children don't go to school past the 8th grade.

If you lived where I live, you'd see those kids outside their homes every day romping and playing in the fresh air. They eat meals emphasizing grown from your own garden, home-preserved food. Those kids aren't unhappy or abused. At night families play games, read (yes probably from the Bible) or talk.

I went without a television in my home for over 3 years...by choice. (Not for religious reasons) I think my children's happiest memories are from that time. My experience is that all modern luxuries are not only not necessities, they can even replace having a life.

I totally agree with you that adults should never have sex with children. I respectfully have to disagree that what is considered mainstream culture is necessarily the best way to raise a child.

IMO

 

[Truly]

I just wonder if "our friends," the Saudis, are listening.

lol, maybe they're the ones building the newest compound in Crawford, Texas! The Saudi's are the worst violaters of women on the planet. It is very disturbing how women are denied even the most basic rights. They are not breaking US law like the FLDS are, so we cannot prosecute I suppose.

 

[believe09]

I agree southcitymom. The Book of Revelations speaks of and warns of the persecutions and the magnitude of which it will occur. This is some of the same. It will continue, manifest and grow as those are being taught, brainwashed into this kind of thinking.

I absolutely one hundred percent disagree and know in my heart how this situation was handled is wrong, the shock and awe was un-called for. Now we have a big mess. These children have been harmed tremendously, and so have their parents.

The few criminals involved in this tight knit group are the same situations everyone has to deal with in our society. The few that breaks laws should be punished not a whole people. Flds has the criminal element inside it's group just like every family has a family member who's walked on the dark side and has committed a crime. We as a civilized law abiding group of people should deal with the criminal element. The criminals involved.

A few power hungry, bullies have instigated this mess. So oh yeah, now we will have kids raised and exposed to the same Un-Godly mess all other American children are forced to be exposed to. This is a shame.

They should have removed the men 35 and up, took them to isolated facilties and investigated them. Hence leaving the women, children and young males and boys there to continue to live their accustomed lifestyle and to find new leadership that is lawful and trustworthy for their group.

now THAT is a creative solution-I love it.

 

[Truly]

Interesting, Truly. i hadn't noticed your registration date and thought you'd been with us forever! :blowkiss:

Thanks, Floh! That makes me feel right at home. I first discovered WS while searching for information about Meredith Emerson. This was one of the only places where her murder did not fade away. I am really grateful to WS for that.

 

[Truly]

now THAT is a creative solution-I love it.

And you also realize it is completely illegal and against our entire system of justice...right? As was posted in response when someone else made the exact same comment?

There is no such thing as Sex Offender Protective Services. CPS went in because the children were being sexually abused and impregnated. Give the criminal justice system a chance to function. I am confident that the men who imprisoned and raped all these kids will be prosecuted.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

For those of you that want the Dateline recap, you can view it here

 

[believe09]

And you also realize it is completely illegal and against our entire system of justice...right? As was posted in response when someone else made the exact same comment?

There is no such thing as Sex Offender Protective Services. CPS went in because the children were being sexually abused and impregnated. Give the criminal justice system a chance to function. I am confident that the men who imprisoned and raped all these kids will be prosecuted.

Of course I realize that this is illegal-I am going to bow out of this discussion...my discomfort with this sweeping action is based on the whiff of bigotry surrounding the well documented fact that Texas authorities had been watching the compound closely and were looking for any reason to go in. The fact that the raid was potentially predicated on a false premise holds no water if these children were found to be in danger-yes I understand this as well. I will follow the story as it unfolds and I am anxious to find out if the outcome was worth the efforts and for who will actually pay the price in the end....I am grateful if the action rescues those in need of rescuing!

Peace to you all.

 

[Leila]

I agree southcitymom. The Book of Revelations speaks of and warns of the persecutions and the magnitude of which it will occur. This is some of the same. It will continue, manifest and grow as those are being taught, brainwashed into this kind of thinking.

I absolutely one hundred percent disagree and know in my heart how this situation was handled is wrong, the shock and awe was un-called for. Now we have a big mess. These children have been harmed tremendously, and so have their parents.

The few criminals involved in this tight knit group are the same situations everyone has to deal with in our society. The few that breaks laws should be punished not a whole people. Flds has the criminal element inside it's group just like every family has a family member who's walked on the dark side and has committed a crime. We as a civilized law abiding group of people should deal with the criminal element. The criminals involved.

A few power hungry, bullies have instigated this mess. So oh yeah, now we will have kids raised and exposed to the same Un-Godly mess all other American children are forced to be exposed to. This is a shame.

They should have removed the men 35 and up, took them to isolated facilties and investigated them. Hence leaving the women, children and young males and boys there to continue to live their accustomed lifestyle and to find new leadership that is lawful and trustworthy for their group.

The basic tenet of the FLDS is polygamy, which is illegal in every state in the United States. It isn't just a matter of a few, power-hungry bullies who've instigated this mess.........it's been going on for generations, since 1890. The abuses have been there from the beginning. For about 7 generations, marrying young teenage girls who are given no choice, incest, and treating women as breeding stock with no rights has been a fundamental part of the FLDS.

Removing the men from the compound would have been against the law, and would have opened up another can of worms.

The FLDS believe that their president/prophet is called by God to lead them, and that he receives revelations from God. They worship their prophet and will do as commanded by him. Finding new leadership is not an option.

The women are powerless to protect their children as they believe that abuses are acceptable and part of life - they've known nothing else. Their mothers, grandmothers, great-grandmothers, and so on, have known nothing else. Having their fathers grope them and molest them, being married off at age 14 or 15 to an older man and becoming pregnant, is accepted as normal.

The state of Texas did the right thing in separating the women from their children. This is no different than any other case in which a child is removed from an abusive home. The children remain separated from their parents until the parents can demonstrate that they are capable of stopping the abuse. In the case of parents who are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol, they must complete a rehab program and a parenting program. This is no different. The parents will have to complete some sort of program aimed at stopping the systemic abuse that's occurring within the polygamy community, and take parenting classes.

 

[Leila]

This is the solution I feel the Lord guided me too a couple of days ago when I read these threads and haven't posted.

This is the visual of what should have rightfully been done by our Governemnt, which I happen to Honor, but don't agree with all the time.

They should have showed up, barricaded the entrances and exits. Gathererd the adults, talk with them concerning the allegations and laws there were going to charge them with, or the practices they felt were illegal. Had facilities ready to escort in custody the older males in authority and investigated them. Thus leaving children, wives, mothers and the males behind to continue to live in peace without interruption of their lives.

If their investigation shows guilt on the behalf of the men removed, prosecute and jail them. They would have no access to offend or committ abuses and break laws to their own group. The only adjustments the others left behind would be facing is new leadership. NOt the humongous mess created now. Then LE could have left the compound peacefully and in one piece instead of pieces of a big nightmare they've caused.

The children would never have known what happened. It could have been done discreetly and quietly as to not traumatized all the many others. This is scary.

In regards to the part I put in bold - this would have been a major violation of the law - false arrest and illegal detention, and would have led to a major lawsuit against all LE agencies who participated in this.

 

[Leila]

mykodiak - this is my first post, too. I've been sitting here trying to figure out how to thank this group for the great discussion and research they are doing. You summarized my thoughts perfectly! :clap: :woohoo:

Thanks to all of you; I'd been reading for several days and decided I had to register - this discussion is fantastic. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Welcome Jute!