Was Burke Involved? # 4

[ThinkHard]

How bright do you have to be to know when you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

But he hasn't, and he knows it. The strategy is and has always been deflect and leave reasonable doubt.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yep, one that I can't imagine ever using to describe my mother if she was dealing with a crisis situation.

Where you a child of the 90's

 

[Heymom]

Or how about "We aren't angry" about the murder.

Not angry? WTF?

Remember John Andrew saying twice that the murderer deserved "forgiveness?" A reporter asked him what should the murderer receive and he said "forgiveness." The reporter asked him again and he repeated only, "forgiveness."

 

[Heymom]

Who would go on national TV and describe their mother who was frantically looking for her missing daughter as: "going psycho"? A person with some very serious mental issues, that's who.

I heard him use that phrase in the interview when he was 11 - did he use it again as an adult of 29? (BTW he seemed to still be about 11 years old, very youthful looking and acting. I got the feeling he wanted desperately to pull his legs up under him or twist around in the chair the way he had when he was 11.)

 

[FinallyRegistered]

For one I never called him a prodigy. That is something different anyway. It is when someone can acquire new skills or knowledge at a rapid pace, at a young age. Often times plateauing and being relatively on par with peers later on in life.

And secondly all I am pointing out is that from what I can see of Burke btw dr Phil and his childhood interviews it is quite clear in my opinion that something is very off about him. When we add hearing about other things in his childhood, it paints a very troubled kid. In my experience troubled kids with awkward social skills, tend to be highly intelligent. So I would not be surprised if Burke was also highly intelligent based on what I've seen and learned.

I think he's was smart in a way that gave him an above average ability to plan, execute, and stage this, even if some may not agree.

Specifically I think he has high fluid reasoning skills....as is evident of the rapid connections his brain was making when he saw that pineapple and gasped "oh". I think he could of thought of all those aspects of staging a crime scene like putting pieces of a puzzle together in his head.

RBBM - I agree this is possible, due to affluent schooling, cub scouts, etc. I think this could be confirmed if the Whites would give their side of the story.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

Remember John Andrew saying twice that the murderer deserved "forgiveness?" A reporter asked him what should the murderer receive and he said "forgiveness." The reporter asked him again and he repeated only, "forgiveness."

That's so odd to me. If my parents, sister, cousin, etc were brutally murdered I honestly would not be thinking about forgiveness. If I were to be asked that question I would probably say 'that they deserved what had happened to my baby sister' or 'the death penalty' or 'to be locked up for the rest of their natural lives'. Forgiveness wouldn't be on my mind unless another family member who was 9 at the time of the murder was the actual culprit.

 

[Heymom]

That's so odd to me. If my parents, sister, cousin, etc were brutally murdered I honestly would not be thinking about forgiveness. If I were to be asked that question I would probably say 'that they deserved what had happened to my baby sister' or 'the death penalty' or 'to be locked up for the rest of their natural lives'. Forgiveness wouldn't be on my mind unless another family member who was 9 at the time of the murder was the actual culprit.

Exactly. So many things make sense if Burke was the culprit. I believe he did everything except the clean-up and redressing and the ransom note. I do not believe that either parent did anything to "finish off" JonBenet - I am certain they found her already dead before midnight on 12/25, and that is why her death date on her headstone declares that to be so. I do wonder whose idea it really was to stage a false crime, however. We'd have to know who was abusing JonBenet to know that - who had the most to lose?

I know some people here think he could have even written that, but having had 2 boys, I can say that getting them to write 3 pages at age 9 was almost impossible, and the CBS show demonstrated that it took adults about 25 minutes to copy the note, not taking into account that Patsy would have had to compose it or draft it before she actually wrote it out. That ransom novella must have taken at least an hour out of the timeline.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

Exactly. So many things make sense if Burke was the culprit. I believe he did everything except the clean-up and redressing and the ransom note. I do not believe that either parent did anything to "finish off" JonBenet - I am certain they found her already dead before midnight on 12/25, and that is why her death date on her headstone declares that to be so. I do wonder whose idea it really was to stage a false crime, however. We'd have to know who was abusing JonBenet to know that - who had the most to lose?

I know some people here think he could have even written that, but having had 2 boys, I can say that getting them to write 3 pages at age 9 was almost impossible, and the CBS show demonstrated that it took adults about 25 minutes to copy the note, not taking into account that Patsy would have had to compose it or draft it before she actually wrote it out. That ransom novella must have taken at least an hour out of the timeline.

I'm more inclined to believe that Patsy and maybe John did the staging and damage control. Someone previously stated that they believe that Burke pretended to sleep through it and then they sent him away asap, and I agree. I don't believe that Burke would have had the 'know how' to write the ransom note. I really believe that Patsy penned it.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm more inclined to believe that Patsy and maybe John did the staging and damage control. Someone previously stated that they believe that Burke pretended to sleep through it and then they sent him away asap, and I agree. I don't believe that Burke would have had the 'know how' to write the ransom note. I really believe that Patsy penned it.

I think you'd be suprised what a nine year old child can do. I remember being in fourth grade and learning how to transfer an image by tracing it on tracing paper, turning it over scribbling with thick dark pencil, putting the scribble side down on a new piece of clean paper, tracing over the image with a pen on the image side, which imprints pencil marks on the new piece of paper, tracing over that with a pen, erasing the pencils marks....and bam perfect copy. It was some art project thing.

Months later I had a note my mom was suppose to sign but I didn't want her to see, so what do I think to do.....I ruffle through the basement filing cabinet until I found something with her signature on it, then applied this method to sign the note with my moms signature. No one the wiser. I do remember it distinctly being 4th grade too.

Btw I'm not suggesting Burke used this method by any measure.....I'm just saying kids resourcefulness can suprise you when they are focused and interested and especially when they have a stake in it.

 

[CanSleuth]

I've always felt that Burke may be responsible, but wondered why his parents would cover it up. Why not call 911 to report an accident? As a mom of one boy and two girls, I don't think I would be willing to protect my son if he hurt one of his sisters. I wonder how many websleuthers would?

I doubt a 9 year old would face serious criminal charges for accidentally fatally wounding his sister anyway. Other than wanting to cover for abuse that could be discovered on an autopsy (if she was in fact abused), I can't imagine doing what her family theoretically did. Why not hide her body elsewhere, away from the home? To me that would make the scenario more believable as a kidnapping by a stranger. Leaving her body in the basement is bizarre.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

I've always felt that Burke may be responsible, but wondered why his parents would cover it up. Why not call 911 to report an accident? As a mom of one boy and two girls, I don't think I would be willing to protect my son if he hurt one of his sisters. I wonder how many websleuthers would?

I doubt a 9 year old would face serious criminal charges for accidentally fatally wounding his sister anyway. Other than wanting to cover for abuse that could be discovered on an autopsy (if she was in fact abused), I can't imagine doing what her family theoretically did. Why not hide her body elsewhere, away from the home? To me that would make the scenario more believable as a kidnapping by a stranger. Leaving her body in the basement is bizarre.

I think that when they discovered what happened JBR was already dead. I also think that image was very important to Patsy. There is no doubt in my mind that she would have protected Burke from being labeled a child murderer, because even if he wasn't named at the time, people would be able to put two and two together. I think that they staged the kidnapping and the crime scene to make it look as though an intruder did it to save their son. They had already lost their daughter JBR, so they needed to do damage control within the family.

Hiding the body away from the house would have been very risky. There would be a chance that neighbors would see them leaving, or that someone would notice something. Also putting a cadaver in the car would have been incredibly hard to erase. Cadaver dogs would have been able to pick up the scent of the dead body.

 

[ThinkHard]

I've always felt that Burke may be responsible, but wondered why his parents would cover it up. Why not call 911 to report an accident? As a mom of one boy and two girls, I don't think I would be willing to protect my son if he hurt one of his sisters. I wonder how many websleuthers would?

I doubt a 9 year old would face serious criminal charges for accidentally fatally wounding his sister anyway. Other than wanting to cover for abuse that could be discovered on an autopsy (if she was in fact abused), I can't imagine doing what her family theoretically did. Why not hide her body elsewhere, away from the home? To me that would make the scenario more believable as a kidnapping by a stranger. Leaving her body in the basement is bizarre.

But what would you do if it was not an accident because your son was troubled and you had seen this, yet not sought him help? What would you do then?

 

[Gigitmdy]

I know Patsy & Burke's fingerprints were on the pineapple bowl. Does anyone know if there were prints on the spoon in the bowl?

 

[CanSleuth]

But what would you do if it was not an accident because your son was troubled and you had seen this, yet not sought him help? What would you do then?

That would be all the more reason to turn him in, so he could get psychological help while he was still young, and heal and grow into a decent young man.

Legally it would be very difficult to prove that it was intentional versus an accident (even if it was premeditated). Burke may have gotten angry and lashed out and hit JBR, but this type of sibling rivalry and fighting happens every day in households across America, and it doesn't mean that one sibling wants to kill another. Children's brains are not fully developed and often they 'react' instead of 'act' thoughtfully, and don't always appreciate the consequences of their actions--hence the reason they are not usually prosecuted as adults. Being wealthy, Burke's family would have access to good lawyers. I think they could have gotten him off with only some psychological intervention and no jail time or criminal record.

 

[UKGuy]

Exactly. So many things make sense if Burke was the culprit. I believe he did everything except the clean-up and redressing and the ransom note. I do not believe that either parent did anything to "finish off" JonBenet - I am certain they found her already dead before midnight on 12/25, and that is why her death date on her headstone declares that to be so. I do wonder whose idea it really was to stage a false crime, however. We'd have to know who was abusing JonBenet to know that - who had the most to lose?

I know some people here think he could have even written that, but having had 2 boys, I can say that getting them to write 3 pages at age 9 was almost impossible, and the CBS show demonstrated that it took adults about 25 minutes to copy the note, not taking into account that Patsy would have had to compose it or draft it before she actually wrote it out. That ransom novella must have taken at least an hour out of the timeline.

Heymom,
It would be a neat solution if one person did it all, as Kolar suggests.

I seriously doubt if BR authored the Ransom Note, its structure, layout of paragraphs and complex sentences are beyond what most 9-year old children are capable of.

If BR wrote the Ransom Note this would mean not only did he kill JonBenet but he planned in advance to stage her death as part of a kidnapping not bothering to search for an external paper and pen.

Also if BR had authored the RN I might expect a four line version as put forward in the CBS special.

It would be interesting to have a detailed profile of BR's education, particularly which modules or courses went into his Degree.

In the interviews with Dr Phil BR presents to me as if he is play-acting, this is why I think he smiles a lot, i.e. he knows he is acting?

In parts he appears defensive, his manner seems to be in contrast to that of someone who has a degree in Computer Science?

.

 

[ThinkHard]

That would be all the more reason to turn him in, so he could get psychological help while he was still young, and heal and grow into a decent young man.

Legally it would be very difficult to prove that it was intentional versus an accident (even if it was premeditated). Burke may have gotten angry and lashed out and hit JBR, but this type of sibling rivalry and fighting happens every day in households across America, and it doesn't mean that one sibling wants to kill another. Children's brains are not fully developed and often they 'react' instead of 'act' thoughtfully, and don't always appreciate the consequences of their actions--hence the reason they are not usually prosecuted as adults. Being wealthy, Burke's family would have access to good lawyers. I think they could have gotten him off with only some psychological intervention and no jail time or criminal record.

Logical. And good for you, I can only assume you are both sane and a fantastic mother.

Patsy on the other hand......uh not so much.

Btw there is a difference btw normal sibling rivalries and accelation of physical abuse. Normal sibling rivalry is getting grumpy and frustrated at each other 0, and "beating up on each other". Abdnormal sibling rivalry is spinning out if control into a fit of rage, singularly focused, with intend and desire to cause pain. It is frightening to witness....and distictly different. It's like trying to calm down an attack dog mid fight.

In my opinion there is no way there were not warning signs.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

Maybe Burke was jealous of the attention JBR got from Patsy.

Although in a book I recently read by Lawrence Schiller it was noted that Burke wet the bed and when Patsy started focusing on JBR more, Burke suddenly stops wetting the bed and JBR starts. However, this could be attributed to JBR and getting out of diapers/pull ups so she started having noticeable accidents whereas they weren't noticeable while she was wearing something to protect her clothing and bedding.

I watched a home video that the Ramsey's made during Christmas (not '96) and it seems as if the camera was always positioned on JBR. Burke can be seen in the background holding up a large box (that held some sort of toy) over his head. He stands there with it over his head, like 'Hey, look at me!!'. The camera focused on him for a few seconds and then it was back to JBR riding her new Barbie car (a Christmas present) in the living room.

 

[molly1255]

Who would go on national TV and describe their mother who was frantically looking for her missing daughter as: "going psycho"? A person with some very serious mental issues, that's who.

Agree! The only thing that explains the creepy smile/attitude throughout that interview is "duper's delight". My guess is some very serious money exchanged hands between DP and JR and BR in exchange for that interview.

 

[Heymom]

I've always felt that Burke may be responsible, but wondered why his parents would cover it up. Why not call 911 to report an accident? As a mom of one boy and two girls, I don't think I would be willing to protect my son if he hurt one of his sisters. I wonder how many websleuthers would?

I doubt a 9 year old would face serious criminal charges for accidentally fatally wounding his sister anyway. Other than wanting to cover for abuse that could be discovered on an autopsy (if she was in fact abused), I can't imagine doing what her family theoretically did. Why not hide her body elsewhere, away from the home? To me that would make the scenario more believable as a kidnapping by a stranger. Leaving her body in the basement is bizarre.

Think about it. When they found her, it didn't look like an accident. I think she'd been strangled and was already dead, and maybe her pants were still down and the paintbrush could have been sticking out of her vagina. And maybe he wasn't even repentant about what he'd done.

They couldn't take her body out of the house because the neighbors would have seen them leaving in the early hours of the morning, the car engine would be warm, and there would possibly even be tire tracks in the frost (or snow, if they thought it could snow). They probably had a few hours to come to grips with what their choices were. They may or may not have called someone to discuss options (lawyer?). I'm thinking that they didn't have any counsel before the next day. But we can't know because John's phone records were deleted after a time.

Yes, she had been previously abused. There is no doubt from reading her autopsy report. Her hymen was eroded - she had been penetrated by either a finger or some object that was about the size of a finger, and that hadn't happened the night of 12/25.

 

[Heymom]

Heymom,
It would be a neat solution if one person did it all, as Kolar suggests.

I seriously doubt if BR authored the Ransom Note, its structure, layout of paragraphs and complex sentences are beyond what most 9-year old children are capable of.

If BR wrote the Ransom Note this would mean not only did he kill JonBenet but he planned in advance to stage her death as part of a kidnapping not bothering to search for an external paper and pen.

Also if BR had authored the RN I might expect a four line version as put forward in the CBS special.

It would be interesting to have a detailed profile of BR's education, particularly which modules or courses went into his Degree.

In the interviews with Dr Phil BR presents to me as if he is play-acting, this is why I think he smiles a lot, i.e. he knows he is acting?

In parts he appears defensive, his manner seems to be in contrast to that of someone who has a degree in Computer Science?

.

Where did Chief Kolar suggest that Burke did it all? He knows what the parents did to help cover the crime, and he knows that Patsy wrote the RN. It is a few posters here on WS who have been thinking out loud that maybe Burke wrote the ransom novella, but I think that's just conjecture. What else do we have to talk about, now that we all pretty much recognize what really happened?