Was Burke Involved? # 4

[icedtea4me]

Remember Dr. P said BR is "socially ackward" HAH! That entire interview showed him smiling and
smirking except when it came to his mother (PR). He's a grown man now acting like he's a young
child.

Are you saying that adults never smile and smirk, yes or no?

 

[Rott Mom]

Yes, they do. This is not a fight - I ask you, did you feel BR's appearance on Dr. P. was good?
BTW...I'm a HUGE Metallica fan.

 

[Rott Mom]

Yes lets talk about Burke. To me he's the missing link, and not because of that cro magnon look on his face during the Dr. Philosopher Show. It turns out Burke is full of the same substance he liked to smear around when he was 10.

First, he said he was pretending to be asleep during the events that transpired that night. I pretend to be asleep when I don't want sex, not during a murder. When there is a murder/cover-up going on at 3 in the morning I tend to get up just to see, you know, whats happening. So Burke probably pretended to be asleep Christmas Eve because he was excited, then feigned sleep Xmas day at the White's because he couldn't stand Priscilla White's cooking and than again no sleep on the night of the 25th. No wonder we haven't seen this guy in 20 years, he was catching up on his sleep.

Next Dr. Quick Draw McGraw takes a left turn during his interrogation and takes Burke for a ride on the Pineapple Express, with the express intent of an "AHA" revelation, just like his buddy Oprah had when she discovered her man Steadman actually wrote a book. "Very good honey, we'll put it up here with the ones I wrote." Problem was Burke didn't bite on the pineapple bait, said he didn't even like pineapple on his pizza. Who does?

Next Phil shined a light on the Eveready Burke allegedly used to strike JB, you know the kind with the lithium assault and batteries. We now know, of course, that not only was the flashlight disposable but so were the facts of that entire evening, tossed aside than recycled into a kidnapping/murder plot complete with that Kidnapping, She Wrote note starring Patsy Ramsey as Jessica Fletcher.

Finally Phil, who calls himself a doctor but can't even cure a cold let alone a cold case, looks Burke straight in the eye and asks him if he killed JB. Of course Burke turned on his stone face of denial and upstaged Phil's Perry Mason moment. I guess that dog didn't hunt. Look Phil, your credibility is like your hair, there is none left. You were nothing more then Oprah's Maury Po*****! At this point in your career you can't even look a Cyclops in the eye.

The only thing I learned about Burke was that he has the body language of his dad. He's stiffer than a mannequin encased in cement with only his eyes moving like he was watching a Wimbledon tennis match. He always has that look of disdain on his face I usually get whenever I see a no smoking sign. He takes 9 month long pregnant pauses before answering the tough questions and he continually shifts his body around like a lap dancer who's rent is due. I really don't know if Burke did it, but thanks for asking Tricia.

The best post ever...

 

[kanzz]

I was wondering.....does anyone know if there is a connection between James Burke and Peter Hackett being that Peter is a Police Surgeon? And is there any proof that James Burke frequented sex workers? If so I wouldn't be surprised if he was at the party Peter was having the night Shannen Gilbert was killed. I m thinking COVER UP?

You're on the JonBenet Ramsey forum, Burke Ramsey thread; rather than the James Burke thread in the LISK forum.
Maybe an admin or a mod could move this? Otherwise, you'd just need to repost there.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I don't know where to post this, but why haven't friends, family, housekeepers, etc. - written a book?

Linda Hoffman Pugh, the housekeeper, tried to write one but because she testified in front of the Grand Jury, legally she couldn't because of GJ secrecy laws. Her lawyer Darnay Hoffman (no relation) took it to the supreme Court and got permission for her to write it but Mary Lacy appealed and got that overturned.

Considering how litigious the Rs are the other maids/etc probably didn't think writing a book would be worth the hassle, and I doubt they'd have much material anyway. They were long gone before the murder. LHP'S book would actually be pretty good because not only was she there to watch the fallout, but the Ramseys tried to frame her for the crime. She testified at the GJ, and Schiller hired her as his maid while he was writing PMPT, so who knows what she might have found out from him. There was another maid who talked to Peter Boyles though.
http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/07211998lindawilcoxon-pb.htm

Doc Miller, the husband of ex-Ramsey friend Judith Phillips, wrote about the case. They both think Burke did it, for the record. For years the book was only available in Japan because no American publisher would touch it. Finally he decided to just put the whole thing on his website. There are some stories from Judith I found interesting but nothing really important.
http://www.tommillerlaw.com/jonbenet-ramsey/

 

[Miz Adventure]

. I think PR and JR's grief is genuine, which leads me to think Burke hit JBR and they covered for him. I'm wondering if perhaps he has supressed the memories of it.

I wonder if we'll ever know the truth!

The R's had some genuine grief but it didn't seem to last long, did it?

If you had lost your child in such horrible circumstances would you be able to be interviewed on TV - not just once but over and over again - going through all those terrible details, re-living it all for the lip-smacking delectation of the viewers?

Well the R's did just that - and relished it! PR had the fame she craved at last. The couple became what some call 'media-' - they just couldn't get enough of the limelight. Once they smelled the greasepaint there was no stopping them!

That interview where PR is holding up a photo of JBR - you know the one - what exactly was her motivation for it? The child wasn't missing after all. They weren't asking for public help in trying to find her. No. They just wanted to be seen as grieving parents, but unfortunately for them they were unable to squeeze out a single tear.

They should have used Danny DeVito's method of putting soap in his eyes, or maybe put a few drops of onion juice on a hanky? You would have thought their lawyer could have suggested something like that, or even their 'media consultant'. Yes the couple had a media consultant!

 

[Userid]

Yes, they do. This is not a fight - I ask you, did you feel BR's appearance on Dr. P. was good?
BTW...I'm a HUGE Metallica fan.

I know you asked IcedTea4me, but if I may: I wouldn't call it "good" but then again, I certainly wouldn't take his weird quirks he displayed as "evidence" that he committed the crime. Have you never known anyone that smiles when they get nervous? I've known many people like this, to the point where it's almost annoying that they smile. Smiling at inappropriate times the way BR does is creepy -- don't get me wrong -- but not unprecedented; it has been well-documented in human behavior. People react differently to anxiety, and this is a well-known reaction. For a kid who has been sheltered his whole life from everything, particularly since this crime occurred, I can certainly understand his anxiety of being interviewed by Dr. Phil on television, and that anxiety manifesting in nervous laughter.

 

[HarmonyE.]

For a kid who has been sheltered his whole life from everything, particularly since this crime occurred, I can certainly understand his anxiety of being interviewed by Dr. Phil on television, and that anxiety manifesting in nervous laughter.

If he were 18 or even 22 maybe I could fully buy that this is why he behaved the way he did, but he's turning 30 shortly. And not being public does not automatically equate to being sheltered. As he has not lived a public adult life we haven't seen him of course, but it appears he has lived a pretty normal adult life. He went to a fine college, lived in a dorm, tweeted photos of himself sailing with friends and with a girlfriend or girlfriends. He works full time and despite Dr. Phil's claims that he's a hermit who always works at home, he can be seen in a video working with his team in an open office setting.

I'd be nervous going on national TV too. But I can't imagine bringing up how weird my dead sister's droopy eye looked in her casket.

I completely agree that Burke's strangeness when he talks about his sister's death, both as a child and now as a grown man, is not any sort of tangible proof he killed her. However, as we only have three suspects and no direct evidence that any of them hurt her that night, we have to look at all of the pieces of the puzzle when trying to determine what most likely happened.

 

[Userid]

If he were 18 or even 22 maybe I could fully buy that this is why he behaved the way he did, but he's turning 30 shortly. And not being public does not automatically equate to being sheltered. As he has not lived a public adult life we haven't seen him of course, but it appears he has lived a pretty normal adult life. He went to a fine college, lived in a dorm, tweeted photos of himself sailing with friends and with a girlfriend or girlfriends. He works full time and despite Dr. Phil's claims that he's a hermit who always works at home, he can be seen in a video working with his team in an open office setting.

I'd be nervous going on national TV too. But I can't imagine bringing up how weird my dead sister's droopy eye looked in her casket.

I completely agree that Burke's strangeness when he talks about his sister's death, both as a child and now as a grown man, is not any sort of tangible proof he killed her. However, as we only have three suspects and no direct evidence that any of them hurt her that night, we have to look at all of the pieces of the puzzle when trying to determine what most likely happened.

Are you saying his parents never sheltered him growing up? Because if so, I'd say that's false for obvious reasons. If you feel like you can gage a true-person's personality by the small sample of photos you've come across on Facebook in deeming his level (or lack thereof) of adjustment and/or his particular personality traits, I'd simply say that's a baseless source to determine such conclusions. Obviously, even a person with moderate to high social anxiety disorder can have a tight-knit group of friends (who he posts pictures with on Facebook, say) and survive college -- certainly is nowhere near impossible. Age has nothing to do with it -- adults behave this way well into their lives. It is a personality quirk.

This isn't considered "a piece of the puzzle," because it (the smiling) doesn't prove anything. It's people trying to find anything they can to make him guilty and prove the image they already have/had of him.

The only thing that one should glean from that interview that has any importance whatsoever is how he said he was up at night when everyone else is asleep. The smiling was completely and utterly involuntary -- it was a genuine reaction to his anxiety.

 

[Miz Adventure]

The smiling was completely and utterly involuntary -- it was a genuine reaction to his anxiety.

We don't know that.

It could be how he is at all times.

His head keeps still, his eyes move constantly from side to side and his mouth keeps the same silly smile.

A bit like a ventriloquist's dummy. Creepy.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Are you saying his parents never sheltered him growing up? Because if so, I'd say that's false for obvious reasons. If you feel like you can gage a true-person's personality by the small sample of photos you've come across on Facebook in deeming his level (or lack thereof) of adjustment and/or his particular personality traits, I'd simply say that's a baseless source to determine such conclusions. Obviously, even a person with moderate to high social anxiety disorder can have a tight-knit group of friends (who he posts pictures with on Facebook, say) and survive college -- certainly is nowhere near impossible. Age has nothing to do with it -- adults behave this way well into their lives. It is a personality quirk.

This isn't considered "a piece of the puzzle," because it (the smiling) doesn't prove anything. It's people trying to find anything they can to make him guilty and prove the image they already have/had of him.

The only thing that one should glean from that interview that has any importance whatsoever is how he said he was up at night when everyone else is asleep. The smiling was completely and utterly involuntary -- it was a genuine reaction to his anxiety.

No, I did not say the first bolded, or even imply anything of the sort. I'm talking about the adult Burke, not the child, who I agree was sheltered from the outside world, particularly the press, by a variety of different methods, including civil litigation intended in large part to silence people who might otherwise talk to the press. But Burke has been an adult for 12 years and as I outlined, appears to have had a typical school, social, and work life as an adult.

As for the second comment in bolded comment, unless you know him fairly well, I don't see how you can know what was completely and utterly involuntary with him. I have no clue and I don't see how anyone who doesn't know him could have a clue.

I wasn't referencing the smiling either, but the odd comments made in conjunction with the smiling. Like the one about how weird his sister looked with that dead, droopy eye. Jesus, he's 30! That is a bizarre thing for an adult to day.

My own guess is that Burke isn't odd because he was sheltered as a child; he's odd because he has always been odd. But that's just my opinion.

 

[UKGuy]

Are you saying his parents never sheltered him growing up? Because if so, I'd say that's false for obvious reasons. If you feel like you can gage a true-person's personality by the small sample of photos you've come across on Facebook in deeming his level (or lack thereof) of adjustment and/or his particular personality traits, I'd simply say that's a baseless source to determine such conclusions. Obviously, even a person with moderate to high social anxiety disorder can have a tight-knit group of friends (who he posts pictures with on Facebook, say) and survive college -- certainly is nowhere near impossible. Age has nothing to do with it -- adults behave this way well into their lives. It is a personality quirk.

This isn't considered "a piece of the puzzle," because it (the smiling) doesn't prove anything. It's people trying to find anything they can to make him guilty and prove the image they already have/had of him.

The only thing that one should glean from that interview that has any importance whatsoever is how he said he was up at night when everyone else is asleep. The smiling was completely and utterly involuntary -- it was a genuine reaction to his anxiety.

Userid,

The smiling was completely and utterly involuntary -- it was a genuine reaction to his anxiety.

BBM: How do you know it was genuine and not media coached snake oil that he normally does not practice, hence the anxiety, i.e. is my acting good enough?

Your assumption that some viewers are falling for confirmation bias is no different from other viewers who might consider BR to be acting his way through an interview, whilst others might take a behaviorist perspective and see an anxious interviewee?

Its certain that BR was media coached by Dr Phil and the questions practiced in advance, with the emphasis on countering the CBS Case by promoting BR as a nice guy, along with JR's revision regarding the flashlight and BR's account of going back downstairs when everyone was in bed.

This is what Dr Phil gets paid for, checkout the Kalpoe lawsuit, Britney Spears Interview, Riccio lawsuit, linked to OJ, etc.

Dr Phil is a damage limitation expert, who will do you a media makeover for a nice fee.

So any anxiety displayed by BR might be linked to any expectations fostered by Dr Phil during the shows first takes?


.

 

[Userid]

Userid,

BBM: How do you know it was genuine and not media coached snake oil that he normally does not practice, hence the anxiety, i.e. is my acting good enough?

Your assumption that some viewers are falling for confirmation bias is no different from other viewers who might consider BR to be acting his way through an interview, whilst others might take a behaviorist perspective and see an anxious interviewee?

Its certain that BR was media coached by Dr Phil and the questions practiced in advance, with the emphasis on countering the CBS Case by promoting BR as a nice guy, along with JR's revision regarding the flashlight and BR's account of going back downstairs when everyone was in bed.

This is what Dr Phil gets paid for, checkout the Kalpoe lawsuit, Britney Spears Interview, Riccio lawsuit, linked to OJ, etc.

Dr Phil is a damage limitation expert, who will do you a media makeover for a nice fee.

So any anxiety displayed by BR might be linked to any expectations fostered by Dr Phil during the shows first takes?


.

Because why in the world would he purposefully smile creepily while discussing these events? So people can have even more ammunition against him? That doesn't make sense and you're over-thinking it. The whole point of the interview was for people to see him in a positive light. Nobody "coached" him into smiling like this, because it would have been completely counterproductive as to why he agreed to do this interview anyway: to make himself look less guilty. Just think about it: "Alright Burke, when Dr. Phil asks you about the horrific murder of your sister, what I want you to do is smile...." Honestly, why would anyone coach him with such instructions? If there was any coaching whatsoever, they would have coached him to appear way, way more sympathetic than he comes across in that interview. If anything, this interview proves he was in no way coached at all -- he may have received some questions from Dr. Phil beforehand (which is unsubstantiated as far as I know, but I digress), but he wasn't coached and more particularly, he wasn't coached to smile; that's preposterous.

 

[Userid]

No, I did not say the first bolded, or even imply anything of the sort. I'm talking about the adult Burke, not the child, who I agree was sheltered from the outside world, particularly the press, by a variety of different methods, including civil litigation intended in large part to silence people who might otherwise talk to the press. But Burke has been an adult for 12 years and as I outlined, appears to have had a typical school, social, and work life as an adult.

As for the second comment in bolded comment, unless you know him fairly well, I don't see how you can know what was completely and utterly involuntary with him. I have no clue and I don't see how anyone who doesn't know him could have a clue.

I wasn't referencing the smiling either, but the odd comments made in conjunction with the smiling. Like the one about how weird his sister looked with that dead, droopy eye. Jesus, he's 30! That is a bizarre thing for an adult to day.

My own guess is that Burke isn't odd because he was sheltered as a child; he's odd because he has always been odd. But that's just my opinion.

You don't know the adult Burke any better than any of us. Also, you don't know anything about his life from the few pictures you've seen on Facebook. Neither do I -- granted -- but the fact that he was sheltered for the majority of his life during his upbringing illustrates why a moderate social anxiety/socially awkward behavior was displayed during the interview. In other words, it doesn't surprise, given his upbringing.

Yeah, I don't know him personally (nor do you), but look at my previous post to UK Guy: I (or anyone) don't need to know him personally to believe that his laughing was completely involuntary because of simple logic. There is absolutely zero reason for him to purposefully or voluntarily laugh like he did during that interview, unless he actually wanted people to think he's guilty even more so than they already did. It doesn't take a genius or even a close family member of BR's to realize this. He did this interview to project himself in a positive light, and the laughing had the exact opposite effect. Simple logic would tell us that this wasn't by design.

I'm somewhat confused: you chastise him for the droopy eye comment (that a normal adult would never had said), yet you use the "12 years since he's been an adult" to support your theory that he is well-adjusted enough to not be socially awkward. Which is it? That comment alone only proves my point more so than it proves yours.

 

[UKGuy]

Because why in the world would he purposefully smile creepily while discussing these events? So people can have even more ammunition against him? That doesn't make sense and you're over-thinking it. The whole point of the interview was for people to see him in a positive light. Nobody "coached" him into smiling like this, because it would have been completely counterproductive as to why he agreed to do this interview anyway: to make himself look less guilty. Just think about it: "Alright Burke, when Dr. Phil asks you about the horrific murder of your sister, what I want you to do is smile...." Honestly, why would anyone coach him with such instructions? If there was any coaching whatsoever, they would have coached him to appear way, way more sympathetic than he comes across in that interview. If anything, this interview proves he was in no way coached at all -- he may have received some questions from Dr. Phil beforehand (which is unsubstantiated as far as I know, but I digress), but he wasn't coached and more particularly, he wasn't coached to smile; that's preposterous.

Userid,

"Alright Burke, when Dr. Phil asks you about the horrific murder of your sister, what I want you to do is smile...."

You got it, and you win a coconut!

BR has overdone whatever he was coached to do. Dr Phil is in the media business to make bad guys look nice.

BR just blow his makeover with what he thought might be throwaway chatter, but others see as out of touch comments.

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[Userid]

Userid,

You got it, and you win a coconut!

BR has overdone whatever he was coached to do. Dr Phil is in the media business to make bad guys look nice.

BR just blow his makeover with what he thought might be throwaway chatter, but others see as out of touch comments.

.

This interview didn't make a bad guy look nice, so your logic with that alone makes zero sense. It made a suspicious guy look all the more creepy and suspicious, much to the chagrin (I'm sure) of the suspicious guy.

"Smiling" isn't something that would be "overdone" because no one in their right mind would tell the kid to "smile" at any time during this interview.

 

[Jbrown324320]

I have no connection to the case and I am not a regular on this thread. I did see the TV show that went into detail about the case (did not see Dr Phil). I agreed with the outcome that all evidence points to Burke and their parents covering for him. The parents could not bear losing two kids the same day, so they tried to cover up for Burke. The dad moving the body and the mom writing the note. I can see them telling their lawyer to threaten a suit against the police if they question him (using their money, power and influence in the community).
I watched a lot of interviews with the parents and they just acted off. Not like other parents who had a missing/murdered child.

 

[kanzz]

I have no connection to the case and I am not a regular on this thread. I did see the TV show that went into detail about the case (did not see Dr Phil). I agreed with the outcome that all evidence points to Burke and their parents covering for him. The parents could not bear losing two kids the same day, so they tried to cover up for Burke. The dad moving the body and the mom writing the note. I can see them telling their lawyer to threaten a suit against the police if they question him (using their money, power and influence in the community).
I watched a lot of interviews with the parents and they just acted off. Not like other parents who had a missing/murdered child.

BBM
Innocent people do not do what these people did. Patsy quite obviously authored that Ransom Novella. She knew that her daughter was lying dead in that basement and she knew who had killed JonBenet.

Welcome! Hope you'll stick around.

 

[HarmonyE.]

You don't know the adult Burke any better than any of us. Also, you don't know anything about his life from the few pictures you've seen on Facebook. Neither do I -- granted -- but the fact that he was sheltered for the majority of his life during his upbringing illustrates why a moderate social anxiety/socially awkward behavior was displayed during the interview. In other words, it doesn't surprise, given his upbringing.

Yeah, I don't know him personally (nor do you), but look at my previous post to UK Guy: I (or anyone) don't need to know him personally to believe that his laughing was completely involuntary because of simple logic. There is absolutely zero reason for him to purposefully or voluntarily laugh like he did during that interview, unless he actually wanted people to think he's guilty even more so than they already did. It doesn't take a genius or even a close family member of BR's to realize this. He did this interview to project himself in a positive light, and the laughing had the exact opposite effect. This wasn't by design.

I'm somewhat confused: you chastise him for the droopy eye comment, yet you use the "12 years since he's been an adult" to support your theory that he is well-adjusted enough to not be socially awkward. Which is it? That comment alone only proves my point more so than it proves yours.

To the first bolded comment, you are the one who claimed definitively to know what was going on with Burke during the DP interview, not me. Indeed, I made it clear that we have no way of knowing for sure. To the second bolded comment, I'm sorry you are confused, but I never once claimed Burke was well-adjusted. In fact, given the strangeness of his behavior and comments both as a child and as an adult, I specifically said my guess is he's been very odd his entire life. There is some significant support with regard to this from those brave enough to speak of Burke's behavior before his sister died as well as the taped interviews shortly after the murder. You are claiming any oddness - or as you term it, nervousness - is because he's been overly sheltered. I disagree that "sheltering" is the sole or even primary cause of Burke's strange behavior and comments. Yes, he was shielded from the press as a child in the manner I explained above, but he appears to have had typical adult life opportunities and experiences with school and work. And anyone who has ever gone to school or worked with other people knows that just because someone is a good student or competent worker does not automatically equate to them being well-adjusted. I've worked with some very odd people, many who were quite competent in their work. (Heck, I worked for a manager at a donut shop when I was a teen who was very odd, but quite competent at work. Turns out he kidnapped and raped a girl my age and then tied her alive to a tree in a forest, leaving her to die. Glad I never took those offered ride homes from him...but I digress.)

Burke's mother died when he was still a teenager. It appears that he has been living independently from his father for some time, possibly since moving into his college dorm many years ago. Chocking up his strangeness towards his sister and her death today at age 30 to his sheltering many years ago seems to me to be a very short-sighted conclusion.

And so again I say it is my opinion that Burke has been a very odd fellow for a very long time. There is some evidence to support that he was disturbed before his sister died. Today he works, he went away to school, he's 30 years old, and so he's spent plenty of time living and working with other people. And yet he giggled about his sister's dead droopy eye. Who does that? You and Lin Wood's pal Dr. Phil chock it up to sheltering. My guess is that it's a much more complex diagnosis.

 

[UKGuy]

This interview didn't make a bad guy look nice, so your logic with that alone makes zero sense. It made a suspicious guy look all the more creepy and suspicious, much to the chagrin (I'm sure) of the suspicious guy.

"Smiling" isn't something that would be "overdone" because no one in their right mind would tell the kid to "smile" at any time during this interview.

Userid,
You keep coming up the right answers but arrive at the wrong conclusions.

BR is not doing Dr Phil so he can become famous, its a damage limitation exercise.

BR failed to look good on Dr Phil, with all his physical mannerisms and off cue smiling, he was not a good Dr Phil pupil, he never passed his media screening.

"Smiling" isn't something that would be "overdone" because no one in their right mind would tell the kid to "smile" at any time during this interview.

Who told you that?

Just smile and be yourself is standard media advice, as is what to wear. You ever watch JR talking, he sneaks in his lizard sneer regularly, with tongue added for extra effect?

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