Was Burke involved?

[MyBelle]

You don't have to be a psychopath or sociopath to be a young child who sexually abuses a sibling or other small child.

True but why not stick to this case instead of making generalizations? JonBenet died a horrific death. Repeatedly stating it was "possible" BR was responsible is useless without any evidence.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Brutality? She was unconscious after the head bash.

There has been nothing stating she was repeatedly brutally raped. Your words, not mine.

There is an eyewitness Burke and JonBenet regularly engaged in innapropriate sexual contact. No force required.

No one claimed he intentionally murdered her either.

A whack to silence, a whack in a quick fleeting fit of rage. Are my top picks.







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Who?

:scared:

 

[MyBelle]

From the age of 23 until now she has never been arrested.

Your claims are false.


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She lives in anonymity. She may be in a psych ward right now for all we know.

But in 2003 the double child killer and her 18-year-old daughter were granted the right to live anonymously for the rest of their lives after a High Court ruling that outraged her victims' families.

Mrs Richardson said: 'It's all about her and how she has to be protected. As victims we are not given the same rights as killers.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-grief-says-victims-mother.html#ixzz2xalSFMel
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[MyBelle]

Why do you keep twisting what Tawny is saying?

JMO

I'm not twisting, I'm offering my opinion.

 

[DeDee]

Hmmm why? Maybe Patsy wanted her in some clean underwear for a change? Maybe she didn't want to run back upstairs to fetch a pair of stained up ones she usually wore? Maybe knowing how much JonBenet wanted those panties, Patsy wanted to appease her somehow in death?

I don't know. I never claimed to have all the answers. I prefer to discus logical possibilities that fit the theory from all the other extraneous information available

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BBM

The partially opened gifts were part of the staging to explain why either child was in the basement.

I certainly do not believe late at night either of those children was in the basement playing doctor. I also do not believe Patsy opened a dictionary to incest because she didn't know what it meant. I think it was just more staging to implicate her son.

No, the partially opened gifts in the basement are not staging.

The presents were wrapped in FAO Schwartz gift wrap shipped from New York City. (PR took two trips to NYC in Nov/Dec '96.) At least one gift, of the three, contained a Lego set for BRs upcoming bday.

The now famous size 12 day of the week panties were purchased from Macy's and shipped home for PR by way of the FAO packages or taken home from Macy's in their luggage.


A gnawing idea is that PR intentionally purchased these too big size 12s, not for her daughter, nor for her niece, but for the purpose of this crime.


OMO

 

[Tawny]

True but why not stick to this case instead of making generalizations? JonBenet died a horrific death. Repeatedly stating it was "possible" BR was responsible is useless without any evidence.

I AM sticking to this case. I don't believe he was either of those things, and it WAS possible that BR was responsible.

The cover up was to erase, complicate, and corrupt potential evidence. Hence, why there is VERY LITTLE that implicates ANY Ramsey.

 

[MyBelle]

Brutality? She was unconscious after the head bash.

There has been nothing stating she was repeatedly brutally raped. Your words, not mine.

There is an eyewitness Burke and JonBenet regularly engaged in innapropriate sexual contact. No force required.

No one claimed he intentionally murdered her either.

A whack to silence, a whack in a quick fleeting fit of rage. Are my top picks.








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She was asphyxiated. imo, that was a very brutal death.

Unless there is an eyewitness who saw BR apply a garotte to his sister, I'll continue to believe the asphyxiation was at the hands of an adult.

 

[Mama2JML]

And that proves what exactly?

You said...

"I think it is entirely possible the two-hour window John Ramsey mysteriously left his house was go to his office to call his attorney and the strategy was hatched."​

Linda Arndt testified, under oath, that she didn't lose track of Mr. Ramsey. He wasn't missing & didn't leave the house to call his attorney.

 

[MyBelle]

I AM sticking to this case. I don't believe he was either of those things, and it WAS possible that BR was responsible.

The cover up was to erase, complicate, and corrupt potential evidence. Hence, why there is VERY LITTLE that implicates ANY Ramsey.

BR didn't erase, complicate or corrupt potential evidence. His parents were indicted for crimes so there is evidence against them. To say that it was possible that BR was responsible is no different that saying it was possible the guy who played Santa was responsible. Police ruled out all of JonBenet's siblings, not just Burke and they also ruled out Santa.

If BR had been in any way responsible, the DA would not have gone to the effort of publicly clearing him the day AFTER he testified to the Grand Jury.

 

[Chewy]

Scroll up.

Everyone has already commented and not a single reply claimed he accidentally garroted his sister or suffered from amnesia.


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See this is where it falls apart then, how does a nine year old boy stand up to police interrogation then

You all end your theories with them finding her body, that's not how a cover up works.

 

[Venom]

The time of night and the ages of the children. Plus, if it had been an accidental head injury inflicted by Burke, one of the parents would have called 911.

It was impossible to tell the severity of the head injury just by looking at her head. Any normal adult would react by calling 911.

Yes, but what would affluent, panicked parents do when they came upon the scene, especially if JBR had her pants off and there was reason to believe something else was going on? Now let's say they happen on the scene and JBR is unconcious, lathergic, cold to the touch, shallow breathing and they think she's already dead......Do they want to risk a public fall from grace? Looked at and judged by their peers, church friends, business associates? Or what about their son being taken away?
Now they have all those thoughts, shock of what you found, grief, stress and an idea comes up to try to save their only son and their family from the stigma of what happened.

Mybelle, when do you think they decided to throw BR under the bus?

 

[Salem]

A difference of opinion is not a TOS violation, but snark is. So... state your opinion, don't personalize, don't add emoticons that poke fun at others, and move on.

And DO NOT RESPOND to snarky posts. You will be held accountable, if you do.

Salem

 

[Mama2JML]

Yes, but what would affluent, panicked parents do when they came upon the scene, especially if JBR had her pants off and there was reason to believe something else was going on? Now let's say they happen on the scene and JBR is unconcious, lathergic, cold to the touch, shallow breathing and they think she's already dead......Do they want to risk a public fall from grace? Looked at and judged by their peers, church friends, business associates? Or what about their son being taken away?
Now they have all those thoughts, shock of what you found, grief, stress and an idea comes up to try to save their only son and their family from the stigma of what happened.

Mybelle, when do you think they decided to throw BR under the bus?

BBM
When one is faced with the unexpected death of their child, the last thing on their mind is social status. A mother does not accept the finality of a child's death immediately, nor "soon". The concept of parental instinct, alone, dismantles all BDI theories of which I am familiar...

 

[DeeDee249]

BBM


No, the partially opened gifts in the basement are not staging.

The presents were wrapped in FAO Schwartz gift wrap shipped from New York City. (PR took two trips to NYC in Nov/Dec '96.) At least one gift, of the three, contained a Lego set for BRs upcoming bday.

The now famous size 12 day of the week panties were purchased from Macy's and shipped home for PR by way of the FAO packages or taken home from Macy's in their luggage.


A gnawing idea is that PR intentionally purchased these too big size 12s, not for her daughter, nor for her niece, but for the purpose of this crime.


OMO

The Size 12 Day of the Week panty set was purchased from Bloomingdale's , not Macy's (though they are both Federated Stores). The panties say "Bloomies" right on the waistband. It isn't "bloomies" as in bloomers, but "Bloomies" as in the nickname for Bloomingdales' and "Bloomies" is also printed on their shopping bags.

 

[DeDee]

The Size 12 Day of the Week panty set was purchased from Bloomingdale's , not Macy's (though they are both Federated Stores). The panties say "Bloomies" right on the waistband. It isn't "bloomies" as in bloomers, but "Bloomies" as in the nickname for Bloomingdales' and "Bloomies" is also printed on their shopping bags.

Thank you for the prompt correction. The size 12 panties are from Bloomingdale's. Can you tell I've been shopping at Macy's? :seeya:

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, but what would affluent, panicked parents do when they came upon the scene, especially if JBR had her pants off and there was reason to believe something else was going on? Now let's say they happen on the scene and JBR is unconcious, lathergic, cold to the touch, shallow breathing and they think she's already dead......Do they want to risk a public fall from grace? Looked at and judged by their peers, church friends, business associates? Or what about their son being taken away?
Now they have all those thoughts, shock of what you found, grief, stress and an idea comes up to try to save their only son and their family from the stigma of what happened.

Mybelle, when do you think they decided to throw BR under the bus?

When the Grand Jury was convened. By then, the investigators were focusing on Patsy. I think the attorneys anticipated an indictment so they willingly served up Burke and cooked up the "Patsy was only trying to protect him" defense.

If the DA believed Burke was responsible in any way, I doubt he would have allowed him to remain around other children. Instead, the DA refused to sign the True Bill. It's obvious he wanted an indictment on something more than the Grand Jury was willing to give.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM
When one is faced with the unexpected death of their child, the last thing on their mind is social status. A mother does not accept the finality of a child's death immediately, nor "soon". The concept of parental instinct, alone, dismantles all BDI theories of which I am familiar...

I agree. The actions of a cover-up and contaminating evidence are things a guilty party would do. I just can't wrap my brain around a grieving parent doing them.

 

[MyBelle]

You said...

"I think it is entirely possible the two-hour window John Ramsey mysteriously left his house was go to his office to call his attorney and the strategy was hatched."​

Linda Arndt testified, under oath, that she didn't lose track of Mr. Ramsey. He wasn't missing & didn't leave the house to call his attorney.

The Judge may not have found her credible. Wasn't that lawsuit tossed out by the Judge?

A reporter for Vanity Fair said according to a report Arndt prepared, Ramsey did leave the house.

The ransom note warned the couple not to contact the police but to await a phone call between 8 and 10 that morning. Arndt wrote in her report that "between 10:30 and noon, John Ramsey left the house to pick up the family mail," which she later saw him open and read. At one p.m., when no call had rung, Arndt asked Ramsey and Fleet White to follow her to the kitchen. An investigator describes the scene: " She said, ' I want you to search this house. From top to bottom.' She had barely finished speaking when John Ramsey went directly to a small broken window on the north side of the house and paused.


http://bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html

 

[lawstudent]

The thing is, I do believe the Ramseys would cover for Burke, but I feel like they'd do it belatedly like most parents in that situation. They initially try to save the other child, play kind of dumb to what actually happened and blame it on a fall, and then vehemently defend the other child when the police start investigating, and try to screw up the investigation. It's harder for me to believe that they immediately went into an elaborate staging route, although if they had suspicions about something going wrong and had been thinking about it a lot, I could see it.

The murder also doesn't seem brutal to me - it does kind of seem like most things were done after the fact, whether as staging or by a predator who accidentally killed her, or for some other reason. It seems like she was unconscious when this was going on, and yet it wasn't like she was brutalized by someone taking advantage of the fact that she wouldn't cry out or resist. It does seem staged. I just can't figure it out.

I certainly don't believe Burke did it all himself. He's turned out fine and I don't believe he's a violent sociopath, and I hope he's not involved at all and I feel terrible he's been dragged into it. But there is the possibility that there was some ongoing sexual contact and then he hit her on the head and that's how his parents covered it up. I think a lot more children molest and assault siblings than we realize, without becoming so predatory that we find out about it. It can be a fairly isolated thing due to the detachment that comes with childhood - they never think it out, just act on impulse - may not realize molestation is wrong, may whack a kid with a stick because they just don't really consider the consequences and they're mad or think it's cool. It may not be calculated violence.

 

[Linda7NJ]

When the Grand Jury was convened. By then, the investigators were focusing on Patsy. I think the attorneys anticipated an indictment so they willingly served up Burke and cooked up the "Patsy was only trying to protect him" defense.



If the DA believed Burke was responsible in any way, I doubt he would have allowed him to remain around other children. Instead, the DA refused to sign the True Bill. It's obvious he wanted an indictment on something more than the Grand Jury was willing to give.

Do you believe they would toss him in the slammer?

The fact that Burke remained in home, despite his parents indictments should tell you something.

They obviously didn't fear for Burkes safety.



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