Wayne Millard: Dellen Millard Charged With Murder In The First Degree #1

[deugirtni]

Sorry, I slipped and I call all guns shot guns, not knowing the various types and names. I will correct my post.

What shotgun? Is it now the consensus that those walking tattoo catalogues - the three matthews - deal in contraband shotguns??? What next? Given that long guns, including shot guns and pellet guns, while somewhat restricted, are legal in Canada, this trade must be quite challenging. (Incidentally, I gravely doubt that a shotgun blast to the eye would leave a tidy eye-socket entry - or temple entry, for that matter so I presume there's more to this story.)

 

[swedie]

Wayne apparently referred to it as "Dellens project", this would indicate, to me at least, that Dellen was on board with the idea/project.



Being rich would have left the door open for Dellen to simply be an 'investor' as a profession in my opinion.



The fact that Dellen was in negotiations for the project, would indicate that Dellen was in agreement. I believe Wayne accompanied Dellen when Dellen went to view and subsequently purchase the farm. That would suggest that WM was also in agreement with Dellens choices at the time. It has also been stated that WM liked to drink, maybe WM enjoyed the company of the younger people and his son and had a drink or two with them as opposed to being a pushover who had his house turned into a 'frathouse' against his wishes. Business is often risky in my opinion, I think there was trouble in aviationland and the Millards were caught in the middle. Again in my opinion I think WM committed suicide due to many reasons, one being alcohol, which is a known depressive to an alcoholic, another being that the business that he wanted to succeed for his son was bottoming out due to whatever reason, but probably due in part to hiring the wrong guy to bring in business. Add to that the death of his girlfriend, grief adds to if not brings on depression. Add to that the overwhelming burden of a business that his father built up and which he knew he couldn't continue, this in my opinion could cause him to get depressed and feel inadequate. There are a lot of reasons here for WM to have been suffering from extreme depression and depression is known to be a strong precursor to suicide. I would also like to know which, if any, anti-depressants he was taking as many have the side effect of suicide.



I think any expert in the field of depression or alcoholism would be helpful. IMHO

BBM - LE believe otherwise.

Tim Bosma's accused killer, Dellen Millard, has now been charged with killing his father and Toronto woman Laura Babcock.

Millard's co-accused in the Bosma case, 26-year-old Mark Smich of Oakville, Ont., also faces a first-degree murder charge in connection to the death of the 23-year-old Babcock, who went missing in the summer of 2012, OPP announced Thursday.

I tend to believe these charges came about because LE discovered evidence to prove otherwise. Bottom line; three people dead and DM is the common denominator. Bad luck, coincidence? BTW not all alcoholics are depressed and commit suicide when the going gets rough. Maybe this is what DM told LE the night WM died. There is nothing to back up the assumption WM was depressed or things were tough for him. We do know it has been stated LB suffered from depression. If I missed MSM reports stating WM suffered from depression, could you kindly post a link. TIA.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741

 

[swedie]

Sorry, I slipped and I call all guns shot guns, not knowing the various types and names. I will correct my post.

No worries from me deugirtni, I did the same. We must get educated on types of guns. Yes people have been known to commit suicide with shot guns. Must be awkward, but it is possible and has happened.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/thesaurus-category/british/Types-of-gun-and-general-words-for-gun


Warning: Graphic article. I felt weird/creeped out googling this info. Wonder if LE found any such searches on the accused computer(s)?

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/firearms

We seem to be going in circles debating and discussing this case. New information and of course new opinions have come up but no new facts as of late to point toward guilt or innocence. Hopefully within a year we will have many more of the facts and will be able to put many questions to rest. Personally, in the end all I want is justice for Tim, Laura and William. Those guilty of this sick and senseless murder NEED to be held accountable and if the two sitting in jail accused of these murder are the ones responsible, I hope they suffer miserably in their cells and are never free of their suffering or free to walk amongst us again. JMHO.

 

[swedie]

Wayne apparently referred to it as "Dellens project", this would indicate, to me at least, that Dellen was on board with the idea/project.



Being rich would have left the door open for Dellen to simply be an 'investor' as a profession in my opinion.



The fact that Dellen was in negotiations for the project, would indicate that Dellen was in agreement. I believe Wayne accompanied Dellen when Dellen went to view and subsequently purchase the farm. That would suggest that WM was also in agreement with Dellens choices at the time. It has also been stated that WM liked to drink, maybe WM enjoyed the company of the younger people and his son and had a drink or two with them as opposed to being a pushover who had his house turned into a 'frathouse' against his wishes. Business is often risky in my opinion, I think there was trouble in aviationland and the Millards were caught in the middle. Again in my opinion I think WM committed suicide due to many reasons, one being alcohol, which is a known depressive to an alcoholic, another being that the business that he wanted to succeed for his son was bottoming out due to whatever reason, but probably due in part to hiring the wrong guy to bring in business. Add to that the death of his girlfriend, grief adds to if not brings on depression. Add to that the overwhelming burden of a business that his father built up and which he knew he couldn't continue, this in my opinion could cause him to get depressed and feel inadequate. There are a lot of reasons here for WM to have been suffering from extreme depression and depression is known to be a strong precursor to suicide. I would also like to know which, if any, anti-depressants he was taking as many have the side effect of suicide.



I think any expert in the field of depression or alcoholism would be helpful. IMHO

From your post #356 Tarmarind. You stated:
How do we know that WM started the MRO for Dellen? It says that WM said it was Dellen's project. This could well mean that Dellen started it, he could have had input from WM. I see no rationale for calling in an expert for depression and alcoholism to explain about the MRO ! Many judges and professionals not just airline pilots are prone to the odd tipple or two from my knowledge. Are you suggesting that alcoholics are incapable of holding down a job or of any rational thinking?


UBM - Question; so in your opinion an expert in the field of depression or alcoholism would be helpful or not. Please clarify. TIA.

BBM - Hmm I really have to wonder about that. Doesn't sound like WM enjoyed his housemates much. MOO.

In the past, Dellen had had other friends live in the basement, and although his father was not happy with this communal living situation, he never kicked anyone out. Instead, Wayne used tactics like not stocking the fridge in the hopes that this would make the basement a less attractive crash pad.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...ived-at-home-of-wayne-and-dellen-millard.html

 

[Tamarind]

[/U]

From your post #356 Tarmarind. You stated:
How do we know that WM started the MRO for Dellen? It says that WM said it was Dellen's project. This could well mean that Dellen started it, he could have had input from WM. I see no rationale for calling in an expert for depression and alcoholism to explain about the MRO ! Many judges and professionals not just airline pilots are prone to the odd tipple or two from my knowledge. Are you suggesting that alcoholics are incapable of holding down a job or of any rational thinking?


UBM - Question; so in your opinion an expert in the field of depression or alcoholism would be helpful or not. Please clarify. TIA.

An expert in the field of depression and alcohol would be helpful in assessing a cause for suicide not for explaining why he supported an MRO.

BBM - Hmm I really have to wonder about that. Doesn't sound like WM enjoyed his housemates much. MOO.

In the past, Dellen had had other friends live in the basement, and although his father was not happy with this communal living situation, he never kicked anyone out. Instead, Wayne used tactics like not stocking the fridge in the hopes that this would make the basement a less attractive crash pad.

I can see from the 'refrigerator' comment that like most parents of teens, its not a joy having to restock the refridgerator especially if its friends who eat or drink from it without replenishing it. That doesn't mean that WM did not enjoy their company JMO

 

[cansleuther]

What shotgun? Is it now the consensus that those walking tattoo catalogues - the three matthews - deal in contraband shotguns??? What next? Given that long guns, including shot guns and pellet guns, while somewhat restricted, are legal in Canada, this trade must be quite challenging. (Incidentally, I gravely doubt that a shotgun blast to the eye would leave a tidy eye-socket entry - or temple entry, for that matter so I presume there's more to this story.)

The Hamilton Spectator originally reported that a shotgun was used:

The shotgun death of his father, Wayne Millard, last December was considered a suicide at the time.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3236885-clairmont-accused-bosma-killer-cowers-in-court/

 

[Carli]

The Hamilton Spectator originally reported that a shotgun was used:



http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3236885-clairmont-accused-bosma-killer-cowers-in-court/

Hmmm. Quite so. Interesting on more than one count.

Firstly, it raises a question of why engage the services of the Triple Ms (Three Matthews) to acquire a gun you could pick up at the local gun emporium? Perhaps, if you were intending to murder people, you might not want to acquire a registered guy, but Canad'a controversial long gun registry had already been all but tossed under the train. Moreover, - OK, so call me guilty of profiling but - it looks to me that buying merchandise from the Triple Ms would be any guarantee that the weapon might not already have a history.

Secondly, although, reportedly, shotguns are successfully used in approximately 3 percent of suicides, it's guaranteed to be a pretty messy affair and not at all the tidy little entry wound implied in the "shot in the eye" sudden death of WM. Basically, if the victim - or somebody else, in the case of murder - shoots at point blank range and the shots explode in the head, there will be very little left of that appendage which will instead be rather extensively redistributed around the room. Determining that the entrance wound was at an eye position would therefore be quite challenging. If the shotgun blast was NOT at point blank range, but some distance away, as one would think might lead to the probable determination of murder, the shot balls would have numerous impact wounds all over a person's face and would be much less likely to be fatal. (For those who aren't faint of heart, images of these results can be found online. Even without the TOS I wouldn't post the links here.) But considering the possibilities, I suppose there could also be a limited number of variations. For instance, a person determined to commit suicide but faint of heart, might rig up some kind of apparatus involving the gun trigger, string and a doorknob - that would allow the trigger to be released remotely either by kicking the door closed or (heaven forfend), if someone were trying to make a hideous impression on someone else by killing himself and tied that string to an outward swinging door, then the trigger would be pulled by the next person who opens the door. In either case, however, the target would be both further away and imprecise and shot would most likely end up all over the place, including the victim's face- something police investigators might surely have noticed when arriving on the scene. So again, preferring to wait until the trial(s), I meanwhile don't feel at all confident in arriving at either the shotgun as murder weapon or the shot in the eye conclusions. IMO. MOO. etc.

 

[Arnie M]

Hmmm. Quite so. Interesting on more than one count.

Firstly, it raises a question of why engage the services of the Triple Ms (Three Matthews) to acquire a gun you could pick up at the local gun emporium? Perhaps, if you were intending to murder people, you might not want to acquire a registered guy, but Canad'a controversial long gun registry had already been all but tossed under the train. Moreover, - OK, so call me guilty of profiling but - it looks to me that buying merchandise from the Triple Ms would be any guarantee that the weapon might not already have a history.

Secondly, although, reportedly, shotguns are successfully used in approximately 3 percent of suicides, it's guaranteed to be a pretty messy affair and not at all the tidy little entry wound implied in the "shot in the eye" sudden death of WM. Basically, if the victim - or somebody else, in the case of murder - shoots at point blank range and the shots explode in the head, there will be very little left of that appendage which will instead be rather extensively redistributed around the room. Determining that the entrance wound was at an eye position would therefore be quite challenging. If the shotgun blast was NOT at point blank range, but some distance away, as one would think might lead to the probable determination of murder, the shot balls would have numerous impact wounds all over a person's face and would be much less likely to be fatal. (For those who aren't faint of heart, images of these results can be found online. Even without the TOS I wouldn't post the links here.) But considering the possibilities, I suppose there could also be a limited number of variations. For instance, a person determined to commit suicide but faint of heart, might rig up some kind of apparatus involving the gun trigger, string and a doorknob - that would allow the trigger to be released remotely either by kicking the door closed or (heaven forfend), if someone were trying to make a hideous impression on someone else by killing himself and tied that string to an outward swinging door, then the trigger would be pulled by the next person who opens the door. In either case, however, the target would be both further away and imprecise and shot would most likely end up all over the place, including the victim's face- something police investigators might surely have noticed when arriving on the scene. So again, preferring to wait until the trial(s), I meanwhile don't feel at all confident in arriving at either the shotgun as murder weapon or the shot in the eye conclusions. IMO. MOO. etc.

Carli ... it appears your imagination has gone wild and you conjure up many possibilities .

The Tim Bosma threads on this forum have been exceptionaly focused on factual information as best as the contributors can provide

I suggest we keep it that way until new information is presented

thank you.

 

[Carli]

Carli ... it appears your imagination has gone wild and you conjure up many possibilities .

The Tim Bosma threads on this forum have been exceptionaly focused on factual information as best as the contributors can provide

I suggest we keep it that way until new information is presented

thank you.

Thanks for the advice, Arnie, but , so far as I can tell, there is extraordinarily meagre 100 percent factual information available, don't you think? Certainly IMO. My post was an just an effort to contribute to the question of whether or not a shotgun was used in the sudden death of WM and whether a shotgun blast leaves a clean entry into an eye ( as reported). It's a rather grossly disturbing scenario I'll grant you, but no reason to shy away from considering the practical possibilities, is it?

Which bit of alternative "factual" information would prefer we discuss?

I'd be perfectly content to tell you what my druthers are, but am happy, instead to listen to your recommendation.

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks cansleuther, but I really didn't mean anything at all or in particular when I said 'shotgun'.. to me a 'shotgun' is a handgun. I need to learn gun names, or at least remember to just call any type of gun just a 'gun'. Perhaps the Spec reporter also does the same thing, although that would not be good.

The Hamilton Spectator originally reported that a shotgun was used:

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3236885-clairmont-accused-bosma-killer-cowers-in-court/

 

[deugirtni]

Forget the 'shotgun' thing, as I said, I made a mistake, as I'm sure the Spec writer also did. If an officer(s) however, said 'to the eye', then I would imagine in their experience, they might know how to tell just because of their experience, training, education, etc.

Thanks for the advice, Arnie, but , so far as I can tell, there is extraordinarily meagre 100 percent factual information available, don't you think? Certainly IMO. My post was an just an effort to contribute to the question of whether or not a shotgun was used in the sudden death of WM and whether a shotgun blast leaves a clean entry into an eye ( as reported). It's a rather grossly disturbing scenario I'll grant you, but no reason to shy away from considering the practical possibilities, is it?

Which bit of alternative "factual" information would prefer we discuss?

I'd be perfectly content to tell you what my druthers are, but am happy, instead to listen to your recommendation.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not sure if I read it here or on another thread, but someone somewhere was having difficulty, as I had been at one time, in opening news reports. Many MSM sites will only let you read x many articles before they want you to pay for a subscription, and so the site won't allow you to read perhaps an article linked in a thread. Someone enlightened a thread before, and it works like a charm. When you are at the link that you want to open, right click, and it will give you the option of 'open in a private window'; if this is chosen, it will open in a separate link which can't tell how many times you've been there. If the article desired is not a link but you just want to search perhaps within a specific media site, same thing, just open a private browser in a separate window and you're good to go. Thought I'd share, as I have been using computers forEVER and did not know about that.

 

[swedie]

Thanks for the advice, Arnie, but , so far as I can tell, there is extraordinarily meagre 100 percent factual information available, don't you think? Certainly IMO. My post was an just an effort to contribute to the question of whether or not a shotgun was used in the sudden death of WM and whether a shotgun blast leaves a clean entry into an eye ( as reported). It's a rather grossly disturbing scenario I'll grant you, but no reason to shy away from considering the practical possibilities, is it?

Which bit of alternative "factual" information would prefer we discuss?

I'd be perfectly content to tell you what my druthers are, but am happy, instead to listen to your recommendation.

Do we know it was a sudden death? Personally I hope it was. I haven't read anything article that states or suggests it was a clean entry wound. I would assume a coroner would have been able to determine the point of entry of a bullet regardless of the type of gun used. MOO.

I've looked into your statement claiming (as reported) but cannot find anything. But just rereading an old article...
In the case of Wayne Millard, several police sources say, the wound that killed him was a gunshot to the eye. A detective in the Bosma case told me there were relatives who had expressed doubt the elder Millard would commit suicide. Police now say it was the son who killed him.

"It was still unknown if there was the location of her body," said her dad. "They obviously have found enough evidence to feel they could lay a charge."

A joint project of police, which includes the OPP, Toronto and Hamilton Police, now allege that Millard, 28, is in fact a serial killer -- accused of three separate murders over a 10-month period.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2014/04/20140411-073659.html

We will have to wait for the trial to find out the rest of the facts. MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

Do we know it was a sudden death? Personally I hope it was. I haven't read anything article that states or suggests it was a clean entry wound. I would assume a coroner would have been able to determine the point of entry of a bullet regardless of the type of gun used. MOO.

I've looked into your statement claiming (as reported) but cannot find anything. But just rereading an old article...
In the case of Wayne Millard, several police sources say[/U], the wound that killed him was a gunshot to the eye. A detective in the Bosma case told me there were relatives who had expressed doubt the elder Millard would commit suicide. Police now say it was the son who killed him.

"It was still unknown if there was the location of her body," said her dad. "They obviously have found enough evidence to feel they could lay a charge."

joint project of police, which includes the OPP, Toronto and Hamilton Police, now allege that Millard, 28, is in fact a serial killer -- accused of three separate murders over a 10-month period.]

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2014/04/20140411-073659.html

We will have to wait for the trial to find out the rest of the facts. MOO.

I think it's always a good thing to remember that charges are actually 'allegations', of course we always hope that these allegations can be proven and that the justice system is using money wisely. A trial will bring all of the evidence to the fore (hopefully) and a jury will (again hopefully) determine any truth brought about by testimony. So charges themselves are not facts in my opinion.

 

[robynhood]

hmmm..Of course charges are allegations...until they ARE PROVEN in our ONTARIO courts!...As I have posted several times along with others here .IMO Only.... I believe (IMO) that there is EVIDENCE to the charges DM has been charged with...IMO again .BUT of course that is JMHO again.As we all know there is a PUBLICATION BAN to protect the evidence discovered in all 3 cases ...BUT we do know that the person taking DM out for the test drive had a tattoo with the word " AMBITION on his wrist ...and that he was on a test drive the day before which was verified by that large man in the industrial complex ...I shall also mention that Sharlene Bosma could identify who her Hubby went out on that test drive...( ha ha ha ha I shall be jumped on for that statement no doubt)....She definitely received her husband's ashes in a shoe box ....Le announced that one Publicly( go back on here and listen to the announcement if you wish)...I do agree the final hours shall be presented in court and all the video tapes , calls from DM burner phones too...robynhood

 

[Carli]

Do we know it was a sudden death? Personally I hope it was. I haven't read anything article that states or suggests it was a clean entry wound. I would assume a coroner would have been able to determine the point of entry of a bullet regardless of the type of gun used. MOO.

My bad. I used the phrase "sudden death" in the manner I understood its customary medical and legal use However, upon consulting Mr. Webster, I discover it actually precludes an unexpected demise involving violence. Clearly there's no doubt that violence was involved, whether self inflicted or otherwise, it being quite rare for such a death to be accidental. (Mind you, there have been several cases of persons accidentally shooting themselves while cleaning their long guns, haven't there? )

http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/sudden death

DEFINITION: sudden death: unexpected death that is instantaneous or occurs within minutes or hours from any cause other than violence.

 

[cansleuther]

Forget the 'shotgun' thing, as I said, I made a mistake, as I'm sure the Spec writer also did.

The "Spec writer" in question is Susan Clairmont, a veteran crime reporter who has covered numerous gun-related cases - including the Billy Mason case, which involved a shotgun, and the Tyler Johnson case, which involved a handgun. It is difficult to imagine a journalist with her experience making such an error, though it certainly is a possibility. Of course, it's also possible that the source who provided her with the information was the one who made the error and she simply reported what she was told. Or it could be that an error was not made at all and a shotgun was actually used.

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do you think any expert in depression or alcoholism would be helpful in determining why WM started the MRO business for DM?

Yes, absolutely! First check out the definition of a "Dry Drunk", an Alcoholics Anonymous concept referring to people who have stopped drinking but still behave as if they are drinking, to get an idea of some of the core characteristics that keep people drinking. After all WM only started drinking again when things were not going well with the hangar...when he started the project he was likely a dry drunk (seeing as he returned to drinking shortly thereafter)

* The individual has a low tolerance for stress. They easily get upset if things are not going their way.
* The dry drunk continues to engage in unhealthy behaviors. In order to deal with their lack of satisfaction in recovery this individual may turn to new vices.
* Such an individual can suffer from loneliness and lack of interest in activities to fill their time. The fact that they make minimal effort to build a life in recovery means that things remain unsatisfactory.
* Denial can be as big a problem for the dry drunk as it can be for the practicing addict. The individual may refuse to see that their life in recovery needs to change. Due to this denial they may continue to live a miserable life in recovery indefinitely.
* Dry drunks may romance the drink. They forget how bad things were and can now only remember the good drinking days. This type of reminiscing is dangerous because it can only lead to relapse or increased resentment about being sober.
* Such a person is likely to suffer a lot from self-pity. Recovery is not as satisfying as they expected and they will feel cheated because of that.
* The dry drunk tends to be full of pride and feels over-confident about their abilities. They will not seek help from other people because they believe they already have all the answers.
* This individual may continue to engage in unethical behavior.

http://alcoholrehab.com/addiction-recovery/dry-drunk-syndrome/

Now take a second to think about what a "Wet Drunk" (one who is drinking) is all about. All those things, plus the dent that drinking makes in your abilities. And DM had to grow up with that.

So when DM wrote in WM's obit, "He would answer a question with a story" and called him "a man of vision. Yet To Be Realized" and said "A Master Pilot... Many who knew Wayne Millard, knew him as a pilot. Rightfully so, as he defined himself by the responsibilities of the trade"...well what a horrible state to be in, having your identity wrapped up in being a pilot but being unable to work as one due to alcoholism...babbling on with stories that go nowhere like Grandpa Simpson, and full of dreams that can't be reified...

IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

"The Seven Major Mistakes in Suicide Investigation"

By Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S.
Homicide and Forensic Consultant


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...earch/7mistakes.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

[Tamarind]

"The Seven Major Mistakes in Suicide Investigation"

By Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S.
Homicide and Forensic Consultant


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...earch/7mistakes.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

So according to that link it seems to suggest that it would be a possibility that LE were not doing a good job? I am just wondering then, why if it is assumed that LE were not doing a good job identifying a homicide and documented it incorrectly as a suicide, why are we supposed to believe that they have done an exquisite job with the TB and LB cases? Is infallibility case sensitive? Just a thought.