weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #139

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  • #1,181
Good Nite All - See You Monday

Justice for Travis

(We will get it this time - Didn't for little Caylee).....
 
  • #1,182
I normally stay on the trial threads and very rarely bounce around to the others. Wow, I'm sure glad I don't venture out much. By the sound of some of them for instance, Armchair Psych Discussion, to me it sounds like a pro-Jodie site and lets trash Travis and his religion. In General Questions, for awhile, it was let's bash Juan. I'm staying away from those and not going back.

Maybe it's me and I'm tired and maybe I'm seeing too much into it. It took all I had to stay calm and not post but I think if I did, I would get my head bit off. :what:

If TA was my brother, I wouldn't want anyone but JM as prosecutor. I like to think TA pulled some strings wherever he is to get Juan on his case.
 
  • #1,183
I have to catch up on here and watch ALV answer questions too. Busy, busy!

IN this video at around 0:32:30 JM is grilling ALV about whether she really testified on behalf on men. Watch Willmott at that time. She does something strange. Very much like JA. Like she has an anger problem and wants to lash out.

[video=youtube;VHPW7ks8VnE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHPW7ks8VnE[/video]
 
  • #1,184
Holy ravioli! I just realized it's almost 4am!

Nitey nite all :)
 
  • #1,185
Look at the cup after the carafe shaking. Full of ice cubes. That's all.

lol!!! Yep. I saw your other post. Too sleepy to go back & look, but I'm sure you're right. Ok. Going to bed. sigh..... (drags pillow...smiley not workin')

Good night...........but tomorrow I'm going to find the part where she's up to something on the underside of the table! :seeya:
 
  • #1,186
molly333 said:
You don't need physical abuse to be in a battering relationship. Alyce was very clear about that. It's also true.
That's what the whole character assassination discussion was about. Soul murder.
Battering in her continuum was one step above abuse and one step below terrorism.

I will respect your OPINION on here but simply cannot pass on replying to this post.

On the issue of Battery , This is totally and completely incorrect. The very definition of battery means that it's PHYSICAL and not the FEAR of it.

Very clear in both a clinical setting and a legal stand point.

Battering = PHYSICAL. It's as simple as that. ie: if your significant other is BATTERING you, then you are in a PHYSICALLY ABUSIVE relationship.

Thanks for pointing this out. By definition, battery is physical. It comes from the French word battre, meaning "to beat."

"battery n. the actual intentional striking of someone, with intent to harm, or in a "rude and insolent manner" even if the injury is slight. Negligent or careless unintentional contact is not battery no matter how great the harm. Battery is a crime and also the basis for a lawsuit as a civil wrong if there is damage. It is often coupled with "assault" (which does not require actual touching) in "assault and battery." (See: assault> Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.

battery noun assault, attack, beating, harmful physical contact, injurious force, offensive action, onslaught, unlawful hitting, unlawful striking, unlawful touching
Associated concepts: assault and battery, simple battery

More here: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/battery
 
  • #1,187
BBM

What interviews? ALV saw no one but JA. Testimony yes, interviews no.

She didn't talk to anyone but Jodi.

She read interviews with these people that others had done and written up.

IMO

And NONE of the interviews indicated ANY physical abuse.
None of the journals, none of the blogs, none of the interviews, none of the emails, say anything about Physical Abuse.

The ONLY thing she has is Jodi's word about that. And ALV admitted that to JM>

BBM (above)

I have a lot of trouble knowing that ALV relied on, among other things, secondhand information presented for her reading "pleasure" to evaluate anything to do with either JA or TA.

First - I assume these interviews/testimonies are in fact depositions and therefore would have been done by her lawyers, or perhaps their assistants. The what, why and how they would be asking in these depositions would be a far cry from the what, why and how of a mental health professional trying to evaluate a personality and/or evidence of DV.

Second, JA had other lawyers before KN and JW - so which set of lawyers, or combination thereof, did the actual depositions and which story was the "current" story at the time the depositions were taken? It seems to me that whichever story she was on at the time, would have a direct bearing on Jodi's what, why and how description of the killing. Maybe abuse never came up during the deposition because neither the interviewer nor the interviewee had given it a thought at the time.

Third, no matter who did the depositions and how they were carried out, unless ALV personally knew each and every "interviewer" and their interviewing techniques and/or skills, how could she in all all good conscience, accept at face value, the validity of these "interviews" and then use this information on which to base her evaluation. When ALV said that 90% of all communication was nonverbal, I really don't think she meant a secondhand report, written by an unknown person, falls into the realm of "nonverbal". So basically, she formed an opinion based on someone else's opinion. Not really good at anytime methinks but given the magnitude of this horrific crime, I would call this pretty sleazy professionalism.

And finally - fourth. Since the only person ALV deigned to personally interview herself was JA and we all know that Jodi has this little problem with telling the truth (a) sometimes; (b) a lot of the time; (c) most of the time; or (d) always (take your pick).
 
  • #1,188
But of course, she didn't leave her job mid-shift and drive two hours because she was angry or jealous. According to ALV, it showed her 'maturity' because she was seeking 'clarification.'

Like she couldn't get clarity from a phone call when her shift was over?

She's not entitled to "clarity" from Matt's next girlfriend who she doesn't even know. Can you imagine how scared you would be if your new boyfriend's ex girlfriend somehow tracked down where you live and showed up at night, without warning demanding answers about your relationship with your boyfriend.

I would not have let her in, and I would have called the police. For realz.

Yet, Alyce did not see this as jealousy of "stalking -type behavior" because the confrontation wasn't hostil or violent. I got news for Alyce, impulsive acts driven by jealousy and a sense of ownership and entitlement over an ex boyfriend do not necessarily have to be violent or hostile -- there's no other emotion or purpose that would explain this behavior on Jodi's part.

I do wonder why Juan did not ask her about Jodi hacking into Bobby's and Travis' personal email accounts and text messages - then confronting them.
 
  • #1,189
This is a youtube sleuther clip worth watching. Did you all realise it took Juan asking three times, including two approaches and a time out for ALV to admit Travis was extremely afraid of JA and her stalking behaviour based on the IM conversation between Travis and Regan? Even at the end ALV didn't admit extremely. I want to know what the question was Juan didn't ask! It does look like she needed a timeout to admit this....

[video=youtube;asj-6JTsVes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asj-6JTsVes[/video]
 
  • #1,190
We don't know. We've speculated that she might have threatened to expose him via the "sex tape". Whatever it was it really must have been a heinous affront to TA for him to react so harshly. LAV seems to have completely ignored the fact that she completely demo'd his BMW and he didn't get angry...

I think she blackmailed him.

Unlike LAV, I will admit that I do not have certainty of such a possibility but I will say, that having reviewed the CONTEXT and PATTERNS in evidence, that she threatened to do something so vile that he gave up, and was willing to affront her threat to the point of "calling" her out!

moo

The closest thing we have to TA's side of the story of what got him so upset with her is when TA's friend Taylor Searle said TA told him "around the first of June" that JA had hacked into his MySpace. He said TA read him some of what he wrote her in response.

Searle said he told Travis, "Aren't you afraid she's going to hurt you?"

I also thought she may have shared the sex tape with someone to hurt him, and that might be why he said she scammed him. But TA told his friend only that she hacked into his MySpace. Which may be true as well.
 
  • #1,191
I read the article and I agree that Ms. LaViolette shouldn't be "destroyed". But even a tsunami of negative social media attention will not destroy her. She is not entitled to positive reviews on Amazon and her first amendment rights do not extend to the right to be paid to voice her opinions in a professional setting.

She has chosen to put herself out there professionally and personally. She chooses not only to advocate for a vicious self-confessed killer but to stretch her advocacy to making an implausible case that the killer's victim was a pedophile on the flimsiest of evidence. When confronted with a relentlessly aggressive prosecutor she exacerbates a bad situation by refusing to answer questions directly, disregarding the Court's admonitions, escalating the conflict by getting personal with Martinez, and finally misrepresenting (some would say lying about) her professional experience.

She contributes to blurring the line between her personal and professional personae by refusing to commit to an objective standard by which to judge her conclusions. She bristles when Martinez characterizes her as a human lie-detector, but her evasiveness about particulars, her numbing mantra of "context" and her holistic approach to decision-making leave her open to this kind of reductive labeling. She gives anecdotal answers to hard questions. Her thinking is too often soft and fuzzy. She insists that she lives in a perpetual gray zone, but her final opinion on Travis Alexander as an abuser is unshakably black-and-white.

She offers all this as the cornerstone in defense of an essentially indefensible client. She may very well believe in her cause, but she professes her faith in the face of Travis Alexander's grieving family and a grim and mounting cost to the state of Arizona. She provokes the anger of real victims of domestic abuse who feel insulted by her presentation. And then she complains about the outrage that her professional opinions and her personal conduct have drawn.

I disagree with the article that "nearly anyone would fall apart at such collective aggression aimed at them". Many people would have gone into the trial prepared for what might be coming. They would delete their Twitter and Facebook accounts. They would go dine with good friends in places far away from the courtroom. An escape from on-line bullying is one tiny power button away; a single mouse-click can silence all those clamorous voices.

Of course, Ms. LaViolette should not be menaced or attacked physically. But an on-line expression of genuine rage may in fact be cathartic and healthful, and, in the end, be a valuable contribution to the context on which LaViolette draws to form and express her opinions.

My web-moniker notwithstanding, I'm far too lazy to pick up any pitchfork, virtual or otherwise, and, misguided as she is, I can see that Ms. LaViolette's hands are empty. But if she is scared by the on-line mob rushing at her with their virtual pitchforks, she should glance back over her shoulder. Squinting hard into the shades of gray that surround her, she might finally make out the flesh-and-blood devil that looms right behind her. And Jodi's holding the biggest pitchfork of all.

FANTASTIC AMAZING POST My smilies aren't working so I cannot find the CLAP CLAP CLAP button. Also, I really wish our emoticons made sound - would love one with hooping and hollering and whistling!
 
  • #1,192
I read the article and I agree that Ms. LaViolette shouldn't be "destroyed". But even a tsunami of negative social media attention will not destroy her. She is not entitled to positive reviews on Amazon and her first amendment rights do not extend to the right to be paid to voice her opinions in a professional setting.

She has chosen to put herself out there professionally and personally. She chooses not only to advocate for a vicious self-confessed killer but to stretch her advocacy to making an implausible case that the killer's victim was a pedophile on the flimsiest of evidence. When confronted with a relentlessly aggressive prosecutor she exacerbates a bad situation by refusing to answer questions directly, disregarding the Court's admonitions, escalating the conflict by getting personal with Martinez, and finally misrepresenting (some would say lying about) her professional experience.

She contributes to blurring the line between her personal and professional personae by refusing to commit to an objective standard by which to judge her conclusions. She bristles when Martinez characterizes her as a human lie-detector, but her evasiveness about particulars, her numbing mantra of "context" and her holistic approach to decision-making leave her open to this kind of reductive labeling. She gives anecdotal answers to hard questions. Her thinking is too often soft and fuzzy. She insists that she lives in a perpetual gray zone, but her final opinion on Travis Alexander as an abuser is unshakably black-and-white.

She offers all this as the cornerstone in defense of an essentially indefensible client. She may very well believe in her cause, but she professes her faith in the face of Travis Alexander's grieving family and a grim and mounting cost to the state of Arizona. She provokes the anger of real victims of domestic abuse who feel insulted by her presentation. And then she complains about the outrage that her professional opinions and her personal conduct have drawn.

I disagree with the article that "nearly anyone would fall apart at such collective aggression aimed at them". Many people would have gone into the trial prepared for what might be coming. They would delete their Twitter and Facebook accounts. They would go dine with good friends in places far away from the courtroom. An escape from on-line bullying is one tiny power button away; a single mouse-click can silence all those clamorous voices.

Of course, Ms. LaViolette should not be menaced or attacked physically. But an on-line expression of genuine rage may in fact be cathartic and healthful, and, in the end, be a valuable contribution to the context on which LaViolette draws to form and express her opinions.

My web-moniker notwithstanding, I'm far too lazy to pick up any pitchfork, virtual or otherwise, and, misguided as she is, I can see that Ms. LaViolette's hands are empty. But if she is scared by the on-line mob rushing at her with their virtual pitchforks, she should glance back over her shoulder. Squinting hard into the shades of gray that surround her, she might finally make out the flesh-and-blood devil that looms right behind her. And Jodi's holding the biggest pitchfork of all.

What a fantastic analysis.
How beautifully written.
So lucid and astute.
Applause applause applause!

I particularly liked the paragraph in which you point out her fuzzy thinking and her insistence on greys, until it comes to her opinion about Travis, which is "unshakably black and white".

But the entirety is so very, very good.
 
  • #1,193
I agree, Samuels seemed more like the professional expert, gun for hire.
ALV doesn't but her opinion is so confounding it leaves us all scratching our heads.

Not for nothing but both Samuels and ALV seem like bumbling buffoons who can't get out of their own way or formulate any opinion based on the principles of their professions. That's my opinion.
 
  • #1,194
I seriously wonder if the Defense team put a lot of "expectations" onto ALV. Kinda like in baseball, when the bases are loaded and the batter is being told by the coach that you needed to bring it home, cuz otherwise the team loses. ALV may, correctly or not, believed that she was the DT's only hope. That her testimony could save JA or be the decider of guilt or innocence, life or death.

bbm, It all comes down to this in the end. I will not be able to watch as much as I would like in the coming week but was able to see ALV this past week. I do personally feel that she has an agenda, just haven't pinned it down yet. I can not for the life of believe that she is being honest with herself on this call she has made on her findings. It seems that no matter how many new pieces of information that she hears that contradicts with her decision in the case it still does not change her findings.? Really? At what point would it change her decision? It will not as far as I am concerned. What was the juror question? Something like, If you thought that jodi was guilty would you have taken the case? If she is/was unbiased what would guilt or innocence have to do with the price of eggs? There has to be an agenda. jmo
 
  • #1,195
Not trying to bash Ms Alyce or anything, but I honestly was listening to the you-tube that was posted of court today. I left the room to get me some Frosted Flakes and upon returning when I heard her tone of voice I could totally tell that Juan was up...her tone of voice is soooo different when Ms. Wilmont is questioning her than it is with Juan !

Gggggggggreat! observation
 
  • #1,196
Not for nothing but both Samuels and ALV seem like bumbling buffoons who can't get out of their own way or formulate any opinion based on the principles of their professions. That's my opinion.

Not to mention the glaring obviousness that Samuels was "taken" by JA and ALV is so biased against men. The fact that ALV DID NOT mention her husband, or father of her children, as one of the positive men in her life screamed that she herself was possibly a victim of abuse, and therefore feeds her obvious bias.
 
  • #1,197
:furious::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
Step off Princess....he's mine....:great::floorlaugh:

In ALV's world, this conversation never existed.

Not possible for women to show aggression or anger towards anyone. Y'all are just victims!

:great:
 
  • #1,198
Not to mention the glaring obviousness that Samuels was "taken" by JA and ALV is so biased against men. The fact that ALV DID NOT mention her husband, or father of her children, as one of the positive men in her life screamed that she herself was possibly a victim of abuse, and therefore feeds her obvious bias.

Good Morning, Good Morning.

I do remember ALV on the stand speaking of her men relatives and that they were all great. I remember she was facing the jury but do not remember who was up and what they were asking but she did say that.
 
  • #1,199
I'm sorry. :(

I have one of those too. Just last Fall. No priors, just jealousy. She was leaving him. He shot her, then himself. Just heartbreaking. :(

So sad to hear. Damn. Just don't understand how people can't realize things aren't working out and just go their separate ways. I know its difficult if kids (and pets...ha) are involved but it's never worth ending any life over. More fish in the sea...etc.
 
  • #1,200
The closest thing we have to TA's side of the story of what got him so upset with her is when TA's friend Taylor Searle said TA told him "around the first of June" that JA had hacked into his MySpace. He said TA read him some of what he wrote her in response.

Searle said he told Travis, "Aren't you afraid she's going to hurt you?"

I also thought she may have shared the sex tape with someone to hurt him, and that might be why he said she scammed him. But TA told his friend only that she hacked into his MySpace. Which may be true as well.

My son's ex gf hacked into his MySpace after they broke up. At the time, it was more popular than FB, and the kids met other kids there by commenting each other, and then PRivate Messaging on there. So his ex figured out his password, and went into his PMs, and sent rude replies to a couple of girls he was talking to. One of them was a co-worker of his, so it caused some needless drama ands so he was very angry.

My point is that hacking into a MySpace can be very damaging if one gets into the PMs. She could have threatened to share some of their 'dirty secrets' with his PPL people or his Mormon ward.
 
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