weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #139

[Sleuth5]

I had to get up and remove myself from the computer.


(As a Websleuth addict can you IMAGINE the trauma this caused me?)

Yes! Yesterday was not a day to move a muscle if at all possible.

 

[Nosey Parker]

bbm, It all comes down to this in the end. I will not be able to watch as much as I would like in the coming week but was able to see ALV this past week. I do personally feel that she has an agenda, just haven't pinned it down yet. I can not for the life of believe that she is being honest with herself on this call she has made on her findings. It seems that no matter how many new pieces of information that she hears that contradicts with her decision in the case it still does not change her findings.? Really? At what point would it change her decision? It will not as far as I am concerned. What was the juror question? Something like, If you thought that jodi was guilty would you have taken the case? If she is/was unbiased what would guilt or innocence have to do with the price of eggs? There has to be an agenda. jmo

I still have a feeling that she is more an anti death penalty advocate than a DV advocate. That's her main agenda in this case. IMO

 

[Ricki]

Are there any legal eagles around? This is an interesting blog article regarding what could possibly be in store for ALV next week:

Will Alyce Laviolette Be Charged With Perjury?

http://tamaratattles.com/2013/04/12/will-alyce-laviolette-be-impeached-as-an-expert-witness/

I thought I read impeachment was done during cross and perjury was hard to prove. I also read the issue might have something to do with contempt. I certainly am not a lawyer and am wondering what the true issue is.

 

[Wake_me]

About ALV claiming JA driving to ambush Bianca wasn't "hostile". Remember the scene in Fatal Attraction where she's nicely sitting in their living room having tea quietly with his wife when he comes home? That wasn't hostile either.

My understanding is that JA left work basically immediately and drove 90 miles for this unexpected friendly chat. Is ALV aware of this?

 

[nadjatheresa]

Also, recall as JW had to remind ALV IM's were line after line, text messages were in boxes. 16 pages of text messages sounds like a lot more than it is, until you see how much space these boxes take up on a page, and how little space is allocated for text, per box.

Yes, I recall ALV emphasizing that the 16 pp. were "single spaced lines." Which, of course, made it sound like another manifesto! The jury will understand the space allocation.

 

[momof7]

Of course I know what the definition of battery is. So does ALV. It seems that people do not yet understand psychological abuse. It makes me sad because the ground breaking work on this, as perhaps the most devastating aspect of abuse, was done 20 and 30 years ago.

You can be battered psychologically ALV said--that's one step above abuse and one step below terrorism on her continuum.

It changes your brain chemistry, among other things. That is what PTSD is all about.

ALV said that there is a lot of new work being done on psychological abuse now and a lot of books in the works.

No matter what you think about this case, I hope that every woman learns about these things because it truly can destroy your life and the lives of your children.

IMO

Yes, it truly can. TA is a testament to that destruction IMHO. TA was not a nice guy all the time and neither was JA. They had a very dysfunctional relationship on both sides of the coin.

Its not just women that need to learn about this, men as well. I know of a man whose wife is a shrew. He probably is one of the nicest guys I have known. Since high school. He takes it and walks away. But after all these years strangers can see it I am sure. He breathes, walks, shows every ounce of the loss of self esteem. Its not a woman's issue. Men have emotions and feelings as well and women are catty and aggressive too. Its not gender specific IMHO

K

 

[Sleuth5]

I didn't think you did have personal knowledge. But the family and the media involved certainly do and it's not confidential since it's a public hearing in open court. There's no reason not to say what it's about unless the parties involved don't want to. That's my only point. It could easily be cleared up with no "fallout," but it isn't. Again.

I get your point. My impression from KCL's statement on the Court Observers thread is that there are serious concerns for anything that smacks of grounds for mistrial, and most everyone is going to err on the side of caution. That was the message I got, anyway.

 

[tinkabella]

After all these months, no one knows what "The Something" is. How crazy is that? Isn't it information which is critical? Its omission is akin to ignoring the elephant in the room. Talk about lack of context! The jury should be given the whole story.

Im hoping that the "something" is made known whether prejudicial or not. The DT has hung its hat on this abusive tirade that I believe came from a person who feels hurt, used, lied to, etc..

 

[Dmacky]

Were the titles of the books she gave JA ever disclosed?

They have not, IIRC ~ BUT, the best part is the Juror's have not forgotten that ALV also gave her magazines. One of the questions was (not verbatim) Jodi wrote a secret coded message in a magazine, was that message intended for you? :giggle: JM let that question go, so I would imagine he is saving that little bombshell for his rubuttal, or closing arguments. I was so happy to see the jury has NOT forgotten about those magazine's! :great:

 

[atthelake]

Are there any legal eagles around? This is an interesting blog article regarding what could possibly be in store for ALV next week:

Will Alyce Laviolette Be Charged With Perjury?

http://tamaratattles.com/2013/04/12/will-alyce-laviolette-be-impeached-as-an-expert-witness/

AZ lawyer has addressed this very subject on the court observers thread.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[G&AMom]

,

Speaking of warm and compassionate, she responded to JM when he asked her if she ever had any physical contact with JA that she may have rubbed/patted her arm but stated there was a glass wall between them when she was interviewing her so she didn't know if she had or not. That doesn't make any sense unless she vaulted over the glass barrier.

I thought the same thing! Huh?

I think she must have been trying to say both what happened in the jail and when she's been seeing JA in court, but got the whole thing totally garbled. Much like the rest of her testimony.

 

[Cailin Rua]

What the heck is the Human Magnet Syndrome?

Something about "why we love people who hurt us."

 

[momof7]

Incredible, right?

My take was that ALV believed the story about the stranger in the restaurant because Travis actually was seeing Lisa at the time. Sort of like, Jodi said the galactic ruler of Arcturus beamed me a message through the fillings in my teeth that Travis was seeing Lisa, and ALV believes it because the message was accurate. I think you're correct, though -- ALV was talking about the relationship between Travis and Lisa, not the idiot story JA told.

That is something that has bothered me a bit as well. ALV didn't even seem to consider that JA could have gotten this information in some other way such as hacking into his emails or phones. Also, she spoke about patterns and contexts yet didn't see a pattern that everytime someone 'cheated' she was told by a mutual friend showing up at her work? That's odd.

Part of me feels that is what those texts are about. She hacked into his emails or/and phone. Found some things and possibly did some things like send some emails. Pretending to be TA and said things to see what would happen with the female. Being immature, she might have done something to catch him in the act or even pretended to be somebody she wasn't to see what he would do/say.

Love to know what happened there.

K

 

[EGirl]

I can't figure out how it went over ALV's head that the jury was trying to ask her just this question. They knew that Travis wasn't calling Jodi a liar about him with another woman. He was calling her a liar about how she found out about him seeing another woman. THAT was obvious, but ALV looks befuddled and keeps saying that Jodi's story was true because he was seeing Lisa.

^THIS!

I was yelling at the screen! They KNEW that she found out by snooping through his phone and emails. Her BS story was the woman coming into the restaurant.


:banghead:

 

[G&AMom]

Agree.

And sometimes the use of ----> isn't what it seems to be on the surface. Could be genuine, could be passive aggressive

If you're not privy to the relationship and all it's nuances, you'd have a hard time determining if one person is really trying to diffuse the situation or is being passive aggressive, using innocuous sounding phrases in a way that pushes the other person's buttons.

To the outsider, it could appear that one person is getting all nancied up.

Every couple has shorthand, whether they're romantically involved or just best buds. With no understanding of both people in that relationship any one sided evaluation is irresponsible and careless.

JMO

ITA! Plus, just the fact that we have come to use Emoticons and smilies and slang like LOL shows how easy it is to misunderstand the written word. I kept hoping someone would bring that up.

 

[nadjatheresa]

My understanding is that JA left work basically immediately and drove 90 miles for this unexpected friendly chat. Is ALV aware of this?

Yes, she is.

 

[Truth Detector]

I can understand where people don't like Sheriff Joe, but what were the chances he'd actually open the package himself? Folks like this bomber never think about all the other people standing around.

Signed,

Someone was used to be a secretary & office manager and whose job would have been to open that package

Why would a bomber care who was standing around?

To a terrorist, the more the merrier.

I would not expect a terrorist to be caring, compassionate or even necessarily thoughtful.

The descriptors selfish, hateful, and murderous come to mind, however.

Come to think of it, that sounds exactly like the defendant in this case.

Hmmm... :waitasec:

 

[carnnell]

I posted this article a day or two ago. Very worth reading.

Female Stalkers, Part 2: Checklist of Stalking and Harassment Behaviors

http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/02/1...ecklist-of-stalking-and-harassment-behaviors/

Written by Dr Tara J. Palmatier

Stalking and Harassment Behaviors List

In order to compile a list of stalking behaviors, I reviewed 4 stalking/harassment/perpetration assessment scales: 1) the Composite Stalking Scale (Davis, Ace, & Andra, 2000; Dye & Davis, 2003); 2) the Courtship Persistence Inventory (Sinclair & Frieze, 2000); 3) the Relationship Pursuit (Cupach & Spitzberg, 2000; 2004) and 4) the Unwanted Pursuit Behavior Inventory (Palarea & Langhinrichsen-Rohling, 1998; Langhinrichsen-Rohling, Palarea, Cohen, & Rohling, 2000). The following list of behaviors are a compilation from these 4 scales:

I BBM the behaviors Arias has done as we know it from the trial:

Spying on you.
Following you.
Driving by your house, place of work, school or other locations where you’re likely to be.
Tracing your whereabouts, activities and other relationships on Facebook, Twitter and other social media.
Hacking into your computer, email, Facebook accounts, etc. (i.e., electronic stalking).
Creating a false identity to gain access to your Facebook/social media pages or enlisting a friend to do so.
Stealing your post mail. (I wouldn't put it past Arias to do this)
Going through your trash. (I wouldn't put it past Arias to do this)
Breaking into your car, home or office.
Seeking out your friends, family and colleagues to talk about you/get information about you.
Searching for information about you by means other than asking you for it.
Threatening to harm/kill herself.
Threatening to harm/kill you.
Threatening to harm/kill your children.
Threatening to harm/kill your new wife/girlfriend, children, family members or friends.
Threatening to harm/kill a pet.
Threatening your job and your reputation.
Threatening your freedom by making false allegations to the police.
Threatening to/destroying your property or your loved one’s property.
Sending you unwanted gifts.
Violating protective orders.
Verbally abusing you.
Physically abusing you.
Psychologically abusing you.
Vandalizing your property or a loved one’s property.
Threatening to divulge information that would be harmful to you.
Blackmailing you.
Holding you physically or blocking your egress to force you to speak with/listen to her.
Taking you someplace against your will to force you to talk with her.
Forcing you or tricking you into having sex (e.g., getting you intoxicated).
Calling you repeatedly to discuss “the relationship” or showing up on your doorstep uninvited to discuss “the relationship.”
Showing up uninvited to your home, school or place of work to see you.
Invading your personal space by standing too close or brushing against you. Doing unrequested favors.
Insisting that you “be friends.”
Seeking physical proximity by applying for jobs where you work, joining your gym, church, professional/social/sports groups or clubs, moving into your neighborhood or building, etc.
Manipulating/coercing you into dating or rekindling the relationship.
Making exaggerated expressions of affection to you and your friends and family (e.g., saying , “I love you” within a few days/weeks of knowing you or after the break-up; doing unwanted favors, giving your friends and family gifts, etc.)
“Befriending” your current romantic partner in order to harm the relationship and/or monitor you. (I think of Bionca/Matt issue)
Telling stories about you to family, friends and loved ones to show how well she knows you.
“Befriending” your friends to get close to you.
Enlisting your friends to intercede on her behalf to talk or be involved with her.
Trying to destroy your other relationships—both platonic and intimate.
Calling you repeatedly and hanging up.
Repeatedly texting/emailing/leaving voicemails.
Sending photos of herself or of the two of you or posting photos of the two of you together on Facebook and other social networks.
Writing about you or tweeting about you.
Smearing and defaming you online to get your attention or to punish you.
“Objectifying” you so that she can abuse, attack, malign and hurt you without feeling empathy or remorse.
Leaving or sending threatening objects (e.g., marked up photos of you, photos taken without your knowledge, , weapons, drugs, bizarre objects like an animal heart or soiled feminine hygiene product, etc.)
Stealing your personal objects to possess “a part of you.”
Using the court and law enforcement to harass you (e.g., making false allegations, filing restraining orders, petitioning the court for frivolous changes in custody, etc.)
Attempting to take your children away or limit your access by making false allegations or engaging in Parental Alienation.

This list is by no means exhaustive. Additionally, research finds that female stalkers tend to be more “creatively aggressive” in their stalking acts, tend to engage in cyberstalking with greater frequency, are more motivated by the desire for an intimate relationship with their victim, and are more likely to engage in stalking activities during daylight hours than their male counterparts (Alexy et al, 2005; Purcell el al., 2001, p. 2056). [*To spare myself comments pointing out that men engage in these behaviors, too; yes, they do. However, I tailor myself writing for a male audience. When women-focused abuse/domestic violence websites make their language gender neutral, so will I.]

 

[momof7]

ITA! Plus, just the fact that we have come to use Emoticons and smilies and slang like LOL shows how easy it is to misunderstand the written word. I kept hoping someone would bring that up.

Yes...I agree. lol can be an embarrassed laugh as well depending on the statement or context of the conversation.

The written word doesn't show the 'context' of the conversation because it can only show what the reader takes from it. If you don't know the whole conversation or people behind it, you have no clue what it really means other than what the words are saying. IMHO

I don't know if that makes a bit of sense, but I agree with you

K

 

[G&AMom]

I thought I heard that she actually "missed work" that day so that she could go confront Bianca". Same dif I guess. How "Assertive" of her to do such a thang.

Ah, but she's only assertive occasionally. Dr. Samuels said so. She could take on the whole Taliban single-handedly, but still be under Travis' thumb. Or something.