Weekend Discussion thread 04/21-24/2012

[Mystic]

I just saw an ad for Plenty of Fish on another site. The owner said that they are responsible for 800,000 relationships. What he (the owner Markus) didn't say was they were all with MTR. lol. JMO.

LOL
thanks for the much needed chuckle!

 

[Ardy]

I too have been wondering why VS had no clothes on from the waist down.

It could be circumstantial evidence of a sexual assault.

Or, there could be other explanations, depending on what happened at teh actual crime scene.

Given the spot of blood on the back doorway of the car, I believe there was a lot more of it there before it was cleaned up. Therefore, I believe the facial injuries to VS occurred inside the car doorway as VS was being pulled out of the car by an enraged TLM.

I believe something happened to send TLM off into the rage that resulted in VS death. TLM has provided no testimony on "why" she decided to kill VS.

If true, there may have been blood all over the moulding and side of the car, and they may have had to clean up the evidence of blood from the side of the car before they continued to the car wash for a more thorough cleaning.

Perhaps they used VS pants to clean up some of the blood. They didn't exactly have the tools with them to thoroughly wash a car in that secluded location........so they used what they had on hand.

What was going through MR's mind...........I can't even fathom.

Why he wouldn't have thrown TLM to the ground and held her until LE arrived, I don't know. Maybe in her rage, even he was afraid of what she might do to him out on that secluded farm lane.

Perhaps she threatened him by saying.........you are in it as much as I am, or he completely lost his mind..........or he is simply a freak of nature who doesn't accept any responsibility for anything he does and justified his non action to himself by thinking he didn't actually do anything.

2) Or.....as some think.......he sexually assaulted VS and let TLM murder her.

If MR had a shred of common decency or humanity in him, I would think the first scenario would be the logical one.

JMO......................

 

[otto]

I too have been wondering why VS had no clothes on from the waist down.

It could be circumstantial evidence of a sexual assault.

Or, there could be other explanations, depending on what happened at teh actual crime scene.

Given the spot of blood on the back doorway of the car, I believe there was a lot more of it there before it was cleaned up. Therefore, I believe the facial injuries to VS occurred inside the car doorway as VS was being pulled out of the car by an enraged TLM.

I believe something happened to send TLM off into the rage that resulted in VS death. TLM has provided no testimony on "why" she decided to kill VS.

If true, there may have been blood all over the moulding and side of the car, and they may have had to clean up the evidence of blood from the side of the car before they continued to the car wash for a more thorough cleaning.

Perhaps they used VS pants to clean up some of the blood. They didn't exactly have the tools with them to thoroughly wash a car in that secluded location........so they used what they had on hand.

What was going through MR's mind...........I can't even fathom.

Why he wouldn't have thrown TLM to the ground and held her until LE arrived, I don't know. Maybe in her rage, even he was afraid of what she might do to him out on that secluded farm lane.

Perhaps she threatened him by saying.........you are in it as much as I am, or he completely lost his mind..........or he is simply a freak of nature who doesn't accept any responsibility for anything he does and justified his non action to himself by thinking he didn't actually do anything.

2) Or.....as some think.......he sexually assaulted VS and let TLM murder her.

If MR had a shred of common decency or humanity in him, I would think the first scenario would be the logical one.

JMO......................

Assaulting a child was going through the mind of MR. He had discussed kidnapping a child with another girlfriend too.

 

[CarrieBean]

Ugh, I just lost my post. I'll shorten it, lol.

My thoughts on Terri Lynne McClintic. I truly believe she is a product of her environment.

She had 3 years to concoct her story, yet admits to murdering Tori. She could have taken the rap for everything, and left out the rape (if she were protecting MR in any way) or she could have blamed the murder on MR (if she wanted to pin it all on him).

I don't recall her ever saying she felt forced by MR to do what she did. I don't believe she's out for revenge. We haven't had the opportunity to hear everything from her. Tweets just don't cover it all.

She testified that she couldn't believe she was capable of what she did to Tori.

I think she's one fugged up young girl and I believe she was abused in so many ways by so many people growing up that she never had a chance to learn any kind of morals or how to live a normal, productive life.

Still, she made her decisions and deserves more than the amount of time she was sentenced to, and I believe her mother's azz should be in prison right beside her.

 

[Kamille]

I too have been wondering why VS had no clothes on from the waist down.

It could be circumstantial evidence of a sexual assault.

Or, there could be other explanations, depending on what happened at teh actual crime scene.

Given the spot of blood on the back doorway of the car, I believe there was a lot more of it there before it was cleaned up. Therefore, I believe the facial injuries to VS occurred inside the car doorway as VS was being pulled out of the car by an enraged TLM.

I believe something happened to send TLM off into the rage that resulted in VS death. TLM has provided no testimony on "why" she decided to kill VS.

If true, there may have been blood all over the moulding and side of the car, and they may have had to clean up the evidence of blood from the side of the car before they continued to the car wash for a more thorough cleaning.

Perhaps they used VS pants to clean up some of the blood. They didn't exactly have the tools with them to thoroughly wash a car in that secluded location........so they used what they had on hand.

What was going through MR's mind...........I can't even fathom.

Why he wouldn't have thrown TLM to the ground and held her until LE arrived, I don't know. Maybe in her rage, even he was afraid of what she might do to him out on that secluded farm lane.

Perhaps she threatened him by saying.........you are in it as much as I am, or he completely lost his mind..........or he is simply a freak of nature who doesn't accept any responsibility for anything he does and justified his non action to himself by thinking he didn't actually do anything.

2) Or.....as some think.......he sexually assaulted VS and let TLM murder her.

If MR had a shred of common decency or humanity in him, I would think the first scenario would be the logical one.
JMO......................

If MR had a shred of common decency or humanity in him, this trial would not be happening. So you can count that out.

And the first scenario is lacking all logic IMO.

MOO

 

[crazyladi]

It's going to be a long drawn out boring half of the trial. It's all going to be about how great mtr is and how crazy TLM was. The music from Necro will be brought up AGAIN as well as all the damning things she said during her testimony. I am curious however to hear from witnesses on his side however it won't change my mind because he is just as guilty. I don't even really want to listen to all the bs that Derstine is going to throw out there. Mr is a coward and in the end if justice doesn't prevail karma will. Jmo

 

[Wondergirl]

They were both fully invested in this plan from the moment MR picked TLM up from her house, both hopped up on drugs, and made the first drive by the school at 3:05pm. They are both equally guilty of what happened for the next 5 hours. Only one of them put an end to the torment and fear of Victoria's family and the entire town and confessed to their part in this, all of their part eventually. And to take their punishment in it's entirety with no excuses. The other one will never do this. Even though he was the one with the access to all the news and everything that was going on in the days and weeks following. If he had a shred of human decency, he would have been the one to bring Victoria home and he would have taken his punishment for his part at the time this happened. But he will not admit to anything and will make excuses for the rest of his sorry existence. Of that I have no doubt.

Just a reminder as to why he is on trial now and what was happening around him after the murder.

Tori Stafford - A Story Through Pictures - YouTube

MOO

Great post, thank-you.

 

[Kamille]

MR's car passes the point where TLM and Tori are captured on video camera at 3:30:56 and then TLM and Tori are on camera at the same spot at 3:32:20. That's MR driving by 84 seconds before Tori and TLM get there.






http://www.scribd.com/doc/84386320/Rafferty-Trial-Evidence

This shows planning. JMO

Not to mention the drive by at 9:04am. And of course the one that TLM testified to at 3:05pm when she was in the car with him and he was daring her to do it. Which was also captured on video.

MOO

 

[Mystic]

If she did know her, as in "hey there's one of the kids that was petting my dog the other day", then how convenient for him that they chose the one day that Victoria was alone after school to attempt this abduction. I'll bet she wasn't even walking home but rather waiting for her brother. And it's possible that TLM really wasn't going to approach a child and that maybe Victoria did call out to her and ask where her dogs were which started the conversation. Now why TLM wouldn't say this is how it happened would be beyond me. Maybe she still can't come to grips with the fact that Victoria had approached her in a trusting way and that she made the decision to lead her to her eventual fate.

Even if it happened this way, it still doesn't prove that she knew that Victoria was TM's daughter.

MOO

that's exactly how i have felt it occurred, VS had seen TLM walking the dog/s and didn't feel threatened at all to talk to her or walk off with her

 

[matou]

“It was what I wanted to be true. What I told myself was true. All of it was true up to the point of the murder. The only thing that wasn’t true in the document was that it isn’t Mr. Rafferty who committed the murder. It was myself.” Rafferty smiled wanly when McClintic said that. During most of his ex-girlfriend’s star-turn on the stand, he’s occupied himself taking extensive notes. On Wednesday, however, Rafferty put his pad aside and watched intently, often with a bemused expression on his face.

I somehow missed that. Thanks to whoever brought up this article again. I also noticed how DiManno calls TLM "drug-addled" in the title of the article. Funny term. JMO

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...ddled-mcclintic-offered-to-take-fall-for-beau

 

[jolady]

At this point, I don't believe Tori was specifically targeted. I think that in a town this small people are bound to know each other, whether just in passing, buying drugs, from the grocery store, whatever. I think that a little girl would have died that day (or soon after) even if Tori hadn't unfortunately walked home alone that day...it would have been another little girl. Even if they had to grab one off the street.

I don't think TM buying pills from TLM's mother had any part of it and I don't think the girl MR dated, who had a daughter who played with Tori, had anything to do with it. I think they just waited for an opportunity, and Tori just happened to be walking alone that day. It looks like Tori was always with someone walking and that day just happened to be unusual and fit it with these 's plans.

bbm
Just a comment on the bolded portion, Woodstock is a city with 35,000 people and alot of smaller communities surrounding it. Everyone does not know everyone. Maybe in the drug community, I can't speak to that, but not everyday people. There are 6 major grocery stores in the city that I can think of offhand. I didn't want people to think that there is just 1 that you shop at regularly and recognize the same people. There are at least a half dozen elementary schools as well. HTH.

 

[tmhco]

I too have been wondering why VS had no clothes on from the waist down.

It could be circumstantial evidence of a sexual assault.

Or, there could be other explanations, depending on what happened at teh actual crime scene.

Given the spot of blood on the back doorway of the car, I believe there was a lot more of it there before it was cleaned up. Therefore, I believe the facial injuries to VS occurred inside the car doorway as VS was being pulled out of the car by an enraged TLM.

I believe something happened to send TLM off into the rage that resulted in VS death. TLM has provided no testimony on "why" she decided to kill VS.

If true, there may have been blood all over the moulding and side of the car, and they may have had to clean up the evidence of blood from the side of the car before they continued to the car wash for a more thorough cleaning.

Perhaps they used VS pants to clean up some of the blood. They didn't exactly have the tools with them to thoroughly wash a car in that secluded location........so they used what they had on hand.

What was going through MR's mind...........I can't even fathom.

Why he wouldn't have thrown TLM to the ground and held her until LE arrived, I don't know. Maybe in her rage, even he was afraid of what she might do to him out on that secluded farm lane.

Perhaps she threatened him by saying.........you are in it as much as I am, or he completely lost his mind..........or he is simply a freak of nature who doesn't accept any responsibility for anything he does and justified his non action to himself by thinking he didn't actually do anything.

2) Or.....as some think.......he sexually assaulted VS and let TLM murder her.

If MR had a shred of common decency or humanity in him, I would think the first scenario would be the logical one.

JMO......................

I believe the most reasonable explanation for a little girl who is found in a remote area deceased, with no pants, evidence of her blood mixed with semen in HIS vehicle, and eye witness testimony, is sexual assault. JMO

 

[robynhood]

...agree with ya carrie...POST # 375...But need help from other posters..I am certain that TLM was seen around Tori's school on a few ocassions...IMo & other posters who have been on hear may remember too...IMO...I remeber hearing that TLM was seen on video walking her dog....before April8 2009 >>>> and I THINK stated that she did somewhere on this forum way back after Tori was found on July 19 , 2009...Please am I not correct?????....IMO ...I have this gut feeling that Tori MAY have met her walking her dog....very pecular that The ONE day Darren was NOT there she was TAKEN....my be coincidence ...but just IMO ...and think I read this here @ the very beginng of this case in 2009 ????...anyone remeber????.....IT may explain why Tori believed there was a puppy to see again????....robynhood

 

[Ardy]

If MR had a shred of common decency or humanity in him, this trial would not be happening. So you can count that out.

And the first scenario is lacking all logic IMO.

MOO

If MR had called the police at the crime scene, he likely would sitting in the same place as he is now........IMO

LE isn't going to show up at a horrific crime scene and let anyone walk away.

TLM said MR did it.......and MR was arrested and charged on her statement.

If she said he did it at the scene..........why would the result be any different?

JMO...........

 

[robynhood]

..thanks Mystic knew I read that same thing...Tori knew TLM had a dog! thanks agin ..robynhood!

 

[Wondergirl]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of evidence would you expect to find on a body that was decomposing for over three months and a suspect who was free to cover his tracks for 6 weeks? Should we not even try cases where DNA doesn't reveal the complete facts of the case? JMO

Well said, good post.

 

[robynhood]

Well said, good post.

...excellent post ..agree 100 percent

 

[tmhco]

If MR had called the police at the crime scene, he likely would sitting in the same place as he is now........IMO

LE isn't going to show up at a horrific crime scene and let anyone walk away.

TLM said MR did it.......and MR was arrested and charged on her statement.

If she said he did it at the scene..........why would the result be any different?

JMO...........

They would have had forensics which is precisely why he did not call. JMO

 

[jolady]

I too have been wondering why VS had no clothes on from the waist down.

I believe the most reasonable explanation for a little girl who is found in a remote area deceased, with no pants, evidence of her blood mixed with semen in HIS vehicle, and eye witness testimony, is sexual assault. JMO

Snipped by me.
I am not going to say that I fully understand the forensic evidence, because I don't. But I don't believe TS's blood was found mixed with semen. A spot was examined and found with TS's blood and unidentified sperm fractions. I don't even know if this is possible but it is how I am thinking this could have happened (because I really, really don't want to believe the rape). I would concede that the sperm is MR's. It is evidence that he had sex with TLM in the front seat and I would think it is safe to assume he has had sex with others in the car. It doesn't appear that he used a condom with TLM, is it not possible that there was sperm fractions on his hands or hers while they are cleaning/wiping themselves and it is transferred to side mouldings and elsewhere. Then TS's blood is splattered during the murder and it lands on one of the spots. I don't think this is a coincidence that it landed on an exact sperm spot because they didn't swab the entire car, it is my understanding that they examined spots that clearly had blood stain on it as that is what they were looking for. Makes sense to me that blood splatter/stain would be more visible than sperm. So there could be sperm fractions all over the car but were not examined as it was not evident because it isn't highlighted by the blood. Not sure if this makes sense. Any thoughts?

 

[Kamille]

If MR had called the police at the crime scene, he likely would sitting in the same place as he is now........IMO

LE isn't going to show up at a horrific crime scene and let anyone walk away.

TLM said MR did it.......and MR was arrested and charged on her statement.

If she said he did it at the scene..........why would the result be any different?

JMO...........

Because the forensics would have been there right along with TLM. Or the lack of forensics as it were if you are to believe his version of events. And he knew it. So he didn't call. If his story was true and he'd have called the police at the scene, he would be a free man today.

MOO