Weekend Discussion thread 04/21-24/2012

[Kamille]

Hi all,

Is there court tomorrow or is it a day dedicated to legal issues? I can't remember :/

Thanks

Morning n/t. Tomorrow is legal issues. No jury in until Wednesday.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Hi all,

Is there court tomorrow or is it a day dedicated to legal issues? I can't remember :/

Thanks

Legal Arguments Tuesday, Court resumes on Wednesday.

Heeney tells the jury they will be off on Tuesday. Council will be having legal arguments. Back Wednesday at 10 am.

http://twitter.com/#!/AM980_Court

 

[Kamille]

So is it because TLM was sent to a detention centre and not jail that they have no recording of MTR saying "You would do anything for a little bit of love huh?" ??????

Yes, I believe the rules for visitation are a lot more lax in a juvenile detention centre than a jail where you would have to sit face to face with a glass partition and talk to each other by phone while being video taped and recorded.

In juvi, family members or approved visitors are probably allowed to sit with the child in a common room without much supervision at all. Remember she was in for a breach of probation, not a suspect in a murder.

Thankfully I have never had the opportunity to visit anyone either in juvi or jail so I'm only going by what I've seen in other cases and in pictures of the Genest Detention Centre. If I'm incorrect on this, I hope someone will correct me.

MOO

 

[Jezbel]

And as I pointed out earlier, it was brought up without any context whatsoever. So I have to assume that it was a recorded telephone call that Derstine was privy to?

If neither the godmother, nor the recorded telephone call show up as part of the defence strategy then you can rest assured that the context of that conversation was not TLM bragging about any of those events or revelling in what she had done.

MOO

Yes, this was in reply to Ardy's question

 

[crazyladi]

Yes, I believe the rules for visitation are a lot more lax in a juvenile detention centre than a jail where you would have to sit face to face with a glass partition and talk to each other by phone while being video taped and recorded.

In juvi, family members or approved visitors are probably allowed to sit with the child in a common room without much supervision at all. Remember she was in for a breach of probation, not a suspect in a murder.

Thankfully I have never had the opportunity to visit anyone either in juvi or jail so I'm only going by what I've seen in other cases and in pictures of the Genest Detention Centre. If I'm incorrect on this, I hope someone will correct me.

MOO

So an 18yr old kills an 8yr old and she is sent to a detention centre?? Wow they really screwed this up because that is key evidence what he said... *sigh* Just another piece of evidence lost.

She should never have been sent to a detention centre with her record and what she had confessed to.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, this was in reply to Ardy's question

I was just jumping off your post Jezbel to respond about that testimony that Derstine supposedly was able to draw out of TLM on cross.

We have to remember that it was his "suggestion" that she said those things to a third party but no one put it into context so it really should be considered hearsay until they do. I'm surprised the Crown didn't jump on that.

MOO

ETA: So I'm not directing this info at you...just in general.

 

[puppyraiser]

So an 18yr old kills an 8yr old and she is sent to a detention centre?? Wow they really screwed this up because that is key evidence what he said... *sigh* Just another piece of evidence lost.

She should never have been sent to a detention centre with her record and what she had confessed to.

She was picked up on an unrelated charge and that's why she was in the Detention Centre. She was a POI almost from the beginning but didn't confess until almost 6 weeks later.

 

[snoofer]

So an 18yr old kills an 8yr old and she is sent to a detention centre?? Wow they really screwed this up because that is key evidence what he said... *sigh* Just another piece of evidence lost.

She should never have been sent to a detention centre with her record and what she had confessed to.

except that when TLM was picked up it was for parole violation not murder?JMO

as we have seen there are some nasty murder one type juvies too; why no taping of all conversations there too? Something to do with young offenders??? This needs to be addressed. IMO But since they expunge young offender files I guess it gets complicated. How do we know MTR does not have a history like this??? JMO

 

[snoofer]

She was picked up on an unrelated charge and that's why she was in the Detention Centre. She was a POI almost from the beginning but didn't confess until almost 6 weeks later.

geesh if she was a poi from the get go; then someone dropped the ball, she should have been wired from the get go IMO.

 

[crazyladi]

I totally forgot that she was picked up prior for something else...ARGH!! The YOA in Canada really sucks.

 

[Kamille]

So an 18yr old kills an 8yr old and she is sent to a detention centre?? Wow they really screwed this up because that is key evidence what he said... *sigh* Just another piece of evidence lost.

She should never have been sent to a detention centre with her record and what she had confessed to.

They sent her to a detention centre because after her name came up as a potential suspect in the video with Victoria, LE found out she had a breach of probation from her juvenile record. So they were able to lock her up while they investigated but unfortunately it appears they didn't take her seriously as a suspect at first because of all the rumours and innuendo surrounding TM and JG.

So she probably wasn't monitored all that much, especially during visitation, regarding this crime. At least in the beginning.

MOO

 

[Jezbel]

I was just jumping off your post Jezbel to respond about that testimony that Derstine supposedly was able to draw out of TLM on cross.

We have to remember that it was his "suggestion" that she said those things to a third party but no one put it into context so it really should be considered hearsay until they do. I'm surprised the Crown didn't jump on that.

MOO

ETA: So I'm not directing this info at you...just in general.

No no I know, I had this whole long post and I don't know what happened to it, the short of it I was saying, that it is going to be interesting to see if and how the defense brings this back up? If the info was discovered by recorded conversations or is the Godmother spoke about it? There was more but I don't remember now lol, oh and I was thanking you for the info and agreeing about the crown.

So strange how quotes don't seem to work properly from my Ipod on a regular basis through Tapatalk.

 

[roseofsharon]

mtr's lifestyle as the time of the crime makes me question this.

28 years old, living at home-somewhat nomadic, illegal activity, lying like a rug, oodles of money running through his account. Yet, he lives at home. Enabled it appears. I have to question if he ever was held accountable for his actions. Appears he has few limits set on his behavior, current charges aside. He does not seem to follow social conventions and lives on the periphery of society...parasitically taking from those around him. It makes me wonder is it that nobody tried to set limits on him; or was there something about his nature that it was impossible for someone to set limits on his behavior. Jmo

imagine what a world would be if we all lived with scanty social convention and have only scantily learned to impose self limits based on legal, societal and moral codes. Imagine the outcomes of like minded people such as that congregating together. Who would pay taxes, would anyone be sober? What kind of chaos would all that lying and scheming cause. Who would get done those things that need to get done in the community. Who's rights would be protected. How safe would that society be. Sounds a bit like gotham doesn't it. Jmo

good post snoofer!!

 

[roseofsharon]

She was picked up on an unrelated charge and that's why she was in the Detention Centre. She was a POI almost from the beginning but didn't confess until almost 6 weeks later.

So now I'm wondering if MR, sometime during this six-week period, didn't return to TS's body and remove the undergarments. Lifting and throwing rocks would have been his forte.

Did TLM testify TS was buried with no undergarments.

MOO

 

[snoofer]

So now I'm wondering if MR, sometime during this six-week period, didn't return to TS's body and remove the undergarments. Lifting and throwing rocks would have been his forte.

Did TLM testify TS was buried with no undergarments.

MOO

tlm had no vehicle or license. Who would LEND her their vehicle? JMO

i believe TLM was picked up on the unrelated charge four days after Tori went missing; someone correct me if I am wrong. JMO

why would MTR do that? i would assume they were tossed with the other stuff LE can't find.

 

[roseofsharon]

tlm had no vehicle or license. Who would LEND her their vehicle? JMO

i believe TLM was picked up on the unrelated charge four days after Tori went missing; someone correct me if I am wrong. JMO

why would MTR do that? i would assume they were tossed with the other stuff LE can't find.

No no, not TLM ... I was throwing out a possibility that MR returned to the scene to remove TS's undergarments whilst TLM was in the detention centre.

Why? ... To remove all waist down articles of clothing that he thought may have contained his DNA.

Remember when this all first happened, they did not think they would ever be caught, so may have just left undergarments on.

That's why I asked, if it had been testified to by TLM that TS had been buried with no undergarments.

MOO

 

[Tahorn]

geesh if she was a poi from the get go; then someone dropped the ball, she should have been wired from the get go IMO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/24/f-stafford-trial-timeline.html

Testimony from march 8th tells why TLM was picked up.

 

[Oldsoul2]

Also from that same article...

To Rafferty, however, McClintic made a vow if suspicion should settle on the couple. “I said that I would take the fall for everything, that I would say it was all me. He had more to lose than I did. He had a life, a job, things going for him and I had nothing.”

Rafferty purportedly pointed out the consequences of making such a claim. “You know that it would be first-degree murder, right?”
BBM

That statement right there shows the snake that is Michael Rafferty IMO. He is confirming with her that she knows the consequences of taking the fall so that he can have the confidence that he's got her wrapped around his finger and that she will go ahead with it if it should come to that. Explains why he was so confident in the following weeks that he could just go on with his ordinary schedule of pill popping and "fishing".

For the life of me I will never understand why, when TLM's name was given to LE by the mother of the victim herself, that they would have put her in a juvenile detention center and not an adult jail where they could tape all of her conversations during her visits. Especially since she was 18 at the time. Hopefully another lesson learned in this horrible saga.

MOO

Doesn't this also scream that he was the one who in fact killed Tori? JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

Often when Derstine has cross examined, he has pulled more testimony from witnesses that the Crown has not revealed.

This is a link to Derstine gaining evidence through testimony during his cross examination of TM.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1142826--tori-stafford-murder-trial-mother-s-shortcomings

There are too many links for too many cross examinations to post them all, but we know Derstine's cross examination revealed TLM's letters, journal entries, choice of death rap music, assaults on her mother, and lengthy criminal record. The comments that TLM made to her godmother regarding microwaving the dog and not regretting the murder and wanting to do it again were all revealed by Derstine's cross examination.

The information can be found by looking at Derstine's cross examination of the witnesses............JMO..........

Rosie Dimanno's, poorly written, condescending article that you linked to here only talks about all the innuendo about Tara MacDonald, that has been filling the blogosphere's since the beginning of the case, including, likely, by the accused himself.

Surely you don't think Derstine is going to focus the blame on Victoria's mother? That is surely to backfire, and all chances of a not-guilty verdict will fly out the window.

JMO

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1142826--tori-stafford-murder-trial-mother-s-shortcomings

 

[BorgQueen]

Doesn't this also scream that he was the one who in fact killed Tori? JMO

They really messed up by not taking tips that videoperson could have been her more seriously. Even if they thought TM was involved, they should have still had an eye on TLM any way. Tips were called in about her more than once, apparently. They really stuffed this up...