Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

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  • #321
Yes, it is against the law to lie to police.........but there is no requirement to answer any or all questions police may put to you. That is why the police asked him if he was "willing" to be interviewed.

MTR lied all the way through the interview, but that fact isn't surprising given that by the date of the interview, he was already "all in" on his misguided hope to not be involved.

Of course he WAS already involved, voluntarily or involuntarily, and he should have gone to the police immediately, with his legal counsel to insure accuracy in his statement, and given a full statement of events to the police. That would have been the wise course of action, but it isn't beyond the realm of possibilities that he thought he wouldn't have been believed. He may have been terrified of going to prison. He could make bad and selfish decisions........or he could be guilty as charged.

In the fullness of the trial and evidence..........we may learn which of the above possibilities is the most likely.

Until then.............MTR is presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

Well he is not innocent of letting Tori's family SUFFER not knowing where the body of their murdered child is. Their daughter was laying in garbage bags with rocks on her in a field and HE knew it...according to his lawyer IMO:banghead:
 
  • #322
As everyone waits for the forensic evidence, I would illustrate problems that can be sometimes encountered as per the OJ Simpson trial.

Like may others, I watched the complete trial and had determined in my own mind that although I believed OJ was "probably" guilty.......I didn't believe the Prosecution had proven their case.

Their many problems with their evidence, and their scrambling around in mid-trial left many uneasy as to the accuracy of their evidence.

One of the most crucial items of evidence was the blood smattering found at the back gate of his ex-wife's home. There was a trail of blood from the front of the home where the bodies were found all the way to the back gate and beyond.

The blood contained the DNA of NS, RG, and OJ.

Also contained in the blood, which was discovered by the defense DNA experts, was a certain chemical which is found in a powdery form inside test tube containers, such as the type used by the police forensic team to store the blood samples.

When revealed, the defense immediately claimed the blood had been stored in the containers and moved to the scene of the crime. They said it had been placed there by corrupt LE.

The prosecution were baffled, and immediately tried to explain the presence of the chemical in the blood. They discovered the chemical was contained in a certain type of burger from McDonalds..........and the testimony was that OJ had eaten that kind of burger just before the murders occurred.

Later tests revealed though, that this chemical could not be ingested and then transferred through the blood stream, and the prosecution was left without an explanation.

Years later, a documentary did an investigation and found the chemical was only contained in the "sauce" on the burger........and quite likely would have been transferred to the hands of OJ. Even had he washed his hands, some residue would remain and mix with his blood if cut at the scene of the crime.

Had the prosecution known that...............the results of the trial could have been much different.

And so..........we wait for the forensic evidence and hope it proves what happened. I somewhat doubt that it will............but we can hope, because the Crown's case is being picked apart, little by little, fact by fact.........from the discovery of TLM's writings and journals describing a similar scenario to recanting and admitting to the murder. and recanting that she bought the hammer, to recently learning that it was her using MTR's cellphone to call people.

I certainly don't want a guilty party being let off because of technicalities, or an innocent party found guilty.......and sincerely hope the evidence is there and it is irrefutable.

Yes saw the whole OJ trial also. To me OJ's trial was nothing but a real life soap opera. Amazing what money can buy eh?! But in the end Karma bit OJ right in the hiney. :floorlaugh: JMHO
 
  • #323
From your post:

Originally Posted by dilbert
If he's anything like the "wimpy coward" that many here claim him to be, it doesn't surprise me that he tried to hide his involvement. TLM could have threatened him and his family if he said anything, it's been proven in court, through her previous writings, that she had the means to find the names and addresses of witness that were responsible for putting her in juvie. Who's to say she wouldn't do that again and actually follow through, after all, she had already bashed in the skull of an 8yr old, it wouldn't be much harder for her to make a few calls and have one of her "Crips" buddies make a home visit to MR's mom.

I agree it was stupid of him to not go to the police, if it is in fact true that he helped with the clean up, but no one can say what they'd do for sure unless you have been put in those shoes, I don't care who you are or what you say. If you felt your family was threatened and wasn't the type to trust the police, you'd keep your mouth shut too.

MOO

My questions stand: Is there any evidence that MR felt his family was threatened and that he did not trust the police? Did we hear ANYTHING about this at all? HTH. JMO


No evidence that his family was threatened as far as I know but I suppose the defence can use that as another theory. Who would be afraid of cops if they're totally innocent, anyway? The detective clearly stated that he was there to interview him because his name was brought up. As a possible witness. Someone who knew TLM. Why would that intimidate an innocent person if they had nothing to hide? Will the defence try to portray MR as a meek, weak, law abiding citizen who wa afraid of his own shadow? <insert muscle flexing photo of the accused murderer>.

That wall is getting sticky with all the BS that's being thrown. It might just collapse when the jury will start to realize that nothing concrete is holding it up.

:moo:
 
  • #324
Do you know this for a fact? Have people been charged (other than giving false information at traffic stops)? I have read that LE will sometimes lie to suspects during interviews to trick them into admitting something. During a police interview, nobody is under oath, neither the interviewer or the interviewee.

The Code also includes, under obstructing justice, intimidating, bribing or otherwise corrupting someone in respect to their evidence or interfering with a juror.

Examples of obstruction of justice are:
•paying a person to give false evidence;
•threatening or actually assaulting a person because they operated in a police investigation;
•lying to police officer including giving a false name, the circumstances of the crime, the identity of the driver at the moment of a motor vehicle accident;
•removing parking tickets from under windshield wiper; or
•hiding or destroying evidence.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/CriminalLaw/LawArticle-117/Obstruction-of-Justice.aspx
 
  • #325
Did the accused child abductor, rapist, murderer take a polygraph?
 
  • #326
Yes, the BS being thrown by TLM may very well be recognized by the jury. I agree. So many lies from a life time liar/criminal to weed through.
 
  • #327
The Code also includes, under obstructing justice, intimidating, bribing or otherwise corrupting someone in respect to their evidence or interfering with a juror.

Examples of obstruction of justice are:
•paying a person to give false evidence;
•threatening or actually assaulting a person because they operated in a police investigation;
•lying to police officer including giving a false name, the circumstances of the crime, the identity of the driver at the moment of a motor vehicle accident;
•removing parking tickets from under windshield wiper; or
•hiding or destroying evidence.

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/CriminalLaw/LawArticle-117/Obstruction-of-Justice.aspx

JMO, I really like that last charge. :hills:
 
  • #328
Little Tori was murdered and for that no matter what part MR took part off he is guilty. However people need to know that there are girls out there that are just pure evil and it isn't always the man that is the organizer of these crimes.

I agree. It is not always the man. In this case, however, he was behind the wheel. He was the driver, literally. He had total control of Tori's fate. He had a little girl in his car who he apparently did not know. He could have dropped her off anywhere at anytime during his cruising. Not in rural Mt. Forest where she was brutally murdered and disposed of underneath a pile of rocks.
 
  • #329
Yes, the BS being thrown by TLM may very well be recognized by the jury. I agree. So many lies from a life time liar/criminal to weed through.

Did you listen to the police interview with the accused? The one that was taken on May 15th., almost a month after he allegedly helped cover up the disposal of an 8 year little girl according to his attorney? 4 days before his accomplice confessed? The one where he states he didn't know that missing girl? That missing girl who was dead underneath a pile of rocks that he allegedly helped dispose of?
 
  • #330
Snipped and BBM

I'm wondering why he didn't tell LE right when he was arrested where Tori's remains were. Did he deny any involvement for the two months it took to find the remains. I always suspected that he may have tipped LE as to where to find them, but that was almost end of july, he was arrested in May.

JMO but how could he help locate Tori's remains? He plead not guilty therefore he's innocent, he shouldn't have known where her remains where. Oh ya but his defense says MR was there to help clean up the mess TLM created. Maybe the defense will claim TLM hit MR on the head with the hammer and he suffered from amnesia. He doesn't remember it was his idea to abduct Tori, he doesn't remember raping Tori listening to her screaming out in pain or trying to fight him off. BUT he does remember a couple of things thank goodness; he remembers, TLM bashing Tori with the hammer and helping TLM clean up. That's all he remembers though.

I think MR's defense should have talked to me before they opened their mouths. I could've gave them a more believable tactic. JMO ok. :sick:
 
  • #331
bbm

Rafferty may not have had priors but there is documentation that he was involved in a "violent confrontation"

Last month{April as article is May21 2009}, police were called to the home after a violent confrontation between Rafferty and his mother's boyfriend,
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9520751-sun.html

This jury will see right through the smoke and mirror defense tactics.
They are using magician illusions that Rafferty was not involved


jmo

bbm....ohh I like that. Magician illusions!
 
  • #332
The accused, from evidence presented so far, claims he did not know his accomplice very well. Almost like an acquaintance rather than a friend or even a girlfriend. He described his accomplice's mother as messed up in the interview.

But yet, he helped this woman who he claims was just someone he didn't really know except that her mother was messed up, take a stranger's child and drove the child and this woman he did not know too well, on shopping sprees to buy garbage bags, a hammer and then drove these strangers 2 hours away to Mt. Forest.

Does that make any sense to anyone?
 
  • #333
No evidence that his family was threatened as far as I know but I suppose the defence can use that as another theory. Who would be afraid of cops if they're totally innocent, anyway? The detective clearly stated that he was there to interview him because his name was brought up. As a possible witness. Someone who knew TLM. Why would that intimidate an innocent person if they had nothing to hide? Will the defence try to portray MR as a meek, weak, law abiding citizen who wa afraid of his own shadow? <insert muscle flexing photo of the accused murderer>.

That wall is getting sticky with all the BS that's being thrown. It might just collapse when the jury will start to realize that nothing concrete is holding it up.

:moo:

jme, a lot of people are afraid of police. I am not defending anyone, but believe we don't have enough information to judge, YET.
 
  • #334
Did you listen to the police interview with the accused? The one that was taken on May 15th., almost a month after he allegedly helped cover up the disposal of an 8 year little girl according to his attorney? 4 days before his accomplice confessed? The one where he states he didn't know that missing girl? That missing girl who was dead underneath a pile of rocks that he allegedly helped dispose of?

Sigh ... they are both proven liars, so for now I'm choosing to believe the one who seems to have the least to lose. While TLM may be despised, at least she "manned up" somewhere along the line and tried to help bring Tori's broken little body home.

MTR never manned up ... he's got a lawyer for a mouthpiece (i say that with total affection ;)) who gets paid to project just about anything that might get his client off, or less than life in prison. No offence to Derstine .. he's just doing the best with what he's got to work with.

JMO
 
  • #335
JMO I know there is one thing we can all agree on, (although some may want to add to the list). Terri Lynn McC is evil, criminal, sick, rotten to the core, manipulative, wicked, nuked her dog in a microwave, admitted to hitting Tori with a hammer ect., ect., ect. She plead guilty, is incarcerated. End of TLM hopefully. This is MTR's trial. And so far the one thing we know as fact is MTR and TLM were together April 8, 2009, in his car with Tori. They took her from the parking lot of the nursing home to where her remains were found over three months later.:moo::moo:
 
  • #336
bbm

Rafferty may not have had priors but there is documentation that he was involved in a "violent confrontation"

Last month{April as article is May21 2009}, police were called to the home after a violent confrontation between Rafferty and his mother's boyfriend,
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9520751-sun.html

This jury will see right through the smoke and mirror defense tactics.
They are using magician illusions that Rafferty was not involved

jmo

I wonder if this ex-boyfriend of MTR's mom will even be called to the stand. Having an argument with a family member is hardly indicative that someone is a pedophile. It was TLM who confessed to the violent hammer murder, wasn't it?

As for the word "violent", who can trust the media's interpretation of an event from info provided by the other party? Not me. I've seen too many mistakes and embellishments by the media to trust facts, much less an adjective. As someone pointed out, no one knows which of the two men started this or caused the most damage. No charges were laid, so I'm going to assume that there weren't much, if any, injuries.

vi·o·lent &#8194; &#8194;[vahy-uh-luhnt] Show IPA

adjective

1. acting with or characterized by uncontrolled, strong, rough force: a violent earthquake.
2. caused by injurious or destructive force: a violent death.
3. intense in force, effect, etc.; severe; extreme: violent pain; violent cold.
4. roughly or immoderately vehement or ardent: violent passions.
5. furious in impetuosity, energy, etc.: violent haste.

Last night one of my neighbours had a violently raucous party. I'm just getting over a violent cold myself, where I experienced violent sneezing fits. ;)

JMO
 
  • #337
jme, a lot of people are afraid of police. I am not defending anyone, but believe we don't have enough information to judge, YET.

Intimidated, perhaps but I have never heard of an innocent person being afraid of the police especially when they are only being asked about someone who they knew. Most people are more than willing to help find a missing child. Like TLM's neighbours and hundreds of others who called in tips when Tori was "missing".

One only be afraid if they are hiding something. A crime they may have been a part of. imo
 
  • #338
I always suspected that he may have tipped LE as to where to find them, but that was almost end of july, he was arrested in May.
<rsbm>

MTR was not instrumental in locating Tori's remains. Det. Smythe found them on a combination of gut feeling and some sketches TLM had provided.
 
  • #339
Intimidated, perhaps but I have never heard of an innocent person being afraid of the police especially when they are only being asked about someone who they knew. Most people are more than willing to help find a missing child. Like TLM's neighbours and hundreds of others who called in tips when Tori was "missing".

One only be afraid if they are hiding something. A crime they may have been a part of. imo

I can understand and respect your opinion even when I don't share it. JME, a lot of folks are afraid of police.

I do hope we one day will know what really happened. I have Tori and her family in my prayers, as horrifying as all of it is to me, I am not her family and my heart breaks for them.
 
  • #340
<rsbm>

MTR was not instrumental in locating Tori's remains. Det. Smythe found them on a combination of gut feeling and some sketches TLM had provided.

and the blackberry ping!!!
 
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