weekend discussion thread: 4/14-16/2012

[OhSoCurious]

:goodpost:

Poor TLM. Necro made her write sick things, MR made her abduct Tori, some other kid made her nuke her dog. Who made her allegedly assault the other inmate in January? Who made her stab the person at the bus stop? Who made her throw the rock through the window at the OPP office? Who made her choke the man in Sudbury? Who made her punch that girl in the face (unprovoked) in 2006? What about all the other threats and assaults on other youths in custody? Who made her assault her mother, not once, but three different occasions? Oh yes, those last three were her mother's fault. One time she poked her, one time she made her lose a job, and one time she burned her with a cigarette. Who'd she do the credit card fraud for? Someone must have made her do that too.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for TLM. Nobody made her do any of those things. She made a conscious choice and she did them, all on her own.

JMO

 

[Ardy]

Poor TLM. Necro made her write sick things, MR made her abduct Tori, some other kid made her nuke her dog. Who made her allegedly assault the other inmate in January? Who made her stab the person at the bus stop? Who made her throw the rock through the window at the OPP office? Who made her choke the man in Sudbury? Who made her punch that girl in the face (unprovoked) in 2006? What about all the other threats and assaults on other youths in custody? Who made her assault her mother, not once, but three different occasions? Oh yes, those last three were her mother's fault. One time she poked her, one time she made her lose a job, and one time she burned her with a cigarette. Who'd she do the credit card fraud for? Someone must have made her do that too.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for TLM. Nobody made her do any of those things. She made a conscious choice and she did them, all on her own.

JMO

I think you missed stabbing a taxi cab driver in the neck with a pen, punch a police officer in the face, threaten the families of corrections officers.......and a few more highlights from her past no doubt.

But.........she that was then. She is a good girl now.

JMO.........

 

[antiquegirl]

It could have happened a few ways and I think MR's sperm could easily have been deposited on another occasion on the molding on that same area and side of the car. If in fact the sperm was his....which the expert couldn't say.

It doesn't explain how VS blood got there though, although VS did have a lot of facial damage........so I am still not convinced TLM didn't start the assault in the back seat area.

JMO.........

The hammer assault happened right outside the car and that door was open, according to TLM's testimony. Since Tori's blood was found, and clothes/shoes had been discarded, it's probably safe to assume that that garbage bag was pierced by the hammer and wasn't very efficient in containing blood spatter. I can see how her blood could have gotten onto the open door frame.

JMO

 

[Ardy]

The hammer assault happened right outside the car and that door was open, according to TLM's testimony. Since Tori's blood was found, and clothes/shoes had been discarded, it's probably safe to assume that that garbage bag was pierced by the hammer and wasn't very efficient in containing blood spatter. I can see how her blood could have gotten onto the open door frame.

JMO

And........I hate to say it........especially since she used the claw end of the hammer........the wrong end.

JMO........

 

[Macright]

as per SFB73..Finally the biggest hole in the drug debt theory would be the fact that VS unfortunately was murdered within a few hours of her abduction. More than likely murdered even before a full scale police involved search had been initiated, the rapid series of events from 3:30pm onward doesn't suggest a ransom and why drive so far away from people your trying to collect the so called debt.



okay I am too lazy to back track to your original post so I am just quoting you above...

as you are well aware of by now..I think this taking of Tori by TLM was for a revenge of some sort..more than likely a drug debt or because of the refusal of TM to breed her dog with CM's... I DON'T think is was for ransom of any kind...BUT revenge by a very disturbed person, namely TLM...therefore the time frame from the kidnapping to the actual murder would fit my time frame for the reason she was taken...I have NEVER thought it was for ransom...(come on now...TM & JG were living off of welfare and food stamps) so where would they get the $$$ to pay a ransom....no no...this was purely for REVENGE..... IMO....

 

[antiquegirl]

I don't know about this MR was a crafty, master manipulator who manipulated a known life time manipulator to do his bidding theory.....and then..........

Turned off his phone leaving Woodstock..........and decided turning it back on at the murder scene was a good idea

Had TLM cut the backseat and throw foam out the window.....and then stick the seat in front of his house for 4-5 days.

Threw the knife used by TLM to cut the seat back into his toolbox.

Stopped in Guelph to buy drugs and chat with BA.

Hang onto his gym bag, instead of throwing it out with the other things, which were never found.

Tell TLM to throw her shoes out the window, instead of throwing them out with the other things that were never found.

Drive to a car wash and go into a convenience store to change individually. A car wash that was never identified by TLM. A convenience store that likely had a video camera.......but was never found. Why did they go into a store to change? Were their clothes all bloody? Nobody would notice two people coming into a store with bloody clothes and changing?

And ultimately the biggest, stupidest thing a crafty manipulator would do.....

Count on TLM to keep her mouth shut forever. Why not just kill her too?

Way, way, way too many unanswered questions to make a judgement yet.

As the Judge said......examine all the evidence, take an analytic view, and keep an open mind until the trial is complete.............

JMO............

:tyou::yourock:

 

[antiquegirl]

Poor TLM. Necro made her write sick things, MR made her abduct Tori, some other kid made her nuke her dog. Who made her allegedly assault the other inmate in January? Who made her stab the person at the bus stop? Who made her throw the rock through the window at the OPP office? Who made her choke the man in Sudbury? Who made her punch that girl in the face (unprovoked) in 2006? What about all the other threats and assaults on other youths in custody? Who made her assault her mother, not once, but three different occasions? Oh yes, those last three were her mother's fault. One time she poked her, one time she made her lose a job, and one time she burned her with a cigarette. Who'd she do the credit card fraud for? Someone must have made her do that too.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for TLM. Nobody made her do any of those things. She made a conscious choice and she did them, all on her own.

JMO

:goodpost:

ITA. She needed very little to provoke her and had no impulse control. Her history says it all and it's probably not even complete.

JMO

 

[Macright]

Price of Shih Tzu puppies in the Toronto area range in price from $525.00 - $700.00... not sure if that is with papers...could be higher...not sure if TM's dog would be the stud and CM's the female BUT regardless if the female had a litter of say five puppies that would be a nice investment... if the drug debt was owed by either TM or JG and I think the figure of $400.00 was mentioned (not saying it was owed to CM) well that stud fee would wipe out the debt and CM would be in a few $$$$$....just saying...now that raises the ante........IMO

 

[Maple1]

It's my understanding that the jury could have found CA guilty of less than murder 1.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20076718-504083.html

Oops. Thanks for the info on CAnthony case. I knew that and had totally forgotten. Still shocked at trial outcome.

 

[Salem]

Guys - this is not a contest about who is more despicable than who. TLM is not on trial here.

Let's stay on topic. The topic is MR's trial.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[BorgQueen]

I find the differences of opinions to be quite interesting.
Some seem absolutely positive that MR is absolutely guilty, as charged.
Some seem unsure of some things and are waiting for all the information and evidence to be presented before they even start to decide.
Some seem positive that MR is not guilty, as charged, but only guilty of a lesser offence, such as obstruction of justice.
Some seem positive that he is absolutely innocent and that he wasn't there and this was all set up by TLM because she is just evil like that.

I am curious about what the jury has been thinking. I would think it is safe to assume that their opinions are just as varied as ours ('ours' being people posting on the internet in general, not just WS). Quite interesting, IMO.
:moo:
:moo:
:moo:

 

[Jezbel]

I'm still trying to figure out how TLM and MR's DNA and blood were found on the back of the front seats and on the side of the headrest........if I understood that testimony correctly.

JMO..........

I think it was MR's semen and TLM's blood right? Also found on the front seat too. I don't really know why TLM would be bleeding either that night or before, maybe something more happened between them that first night they met that we are not privy to? Maybe that first night they started in front and moved to the back.... I can think of a scenario but it grosses me out, so I don't even want to type it lol because I really don't want to picture these two doing the deed. Maybe even something else between them in the car another time, they do also seem odd spots for DNA to be found. I wonder if the defense will address that at all, we will probably never know.

JMO

 

[Jezbel]

Poor TLM. Necro made her write sick things, MR made her abduct Tori, some other kid made her nuke her dog. Who made her allegedly assault the other inmate in January? Who made her stab the person at the bus stop? Who made her throw the rock through the window at the OPP office? Who made her choke the man in Sudbury? Who made her punch that girl in the face (unprovoked) in 2006? What about all the other threats and assaults on other youths in custody? Who made her assault her mother, not once, but three different occasions? Oh yes, those last three were her mother's fault. One time she poked her, one time she made her lose a job, and one time she burned her with a cigarette. Who'd she do the credit card fraud for? Someone must have made her do that too.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for TLM. Nobody made her do any of those things. She made a conscious choice and she did them, all on her own.

JMO

I thought it was said she assaulted her mother twice, when was the third time?

 

[snoofer]

Based on what we know about these types of crimes in general...
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/omc-ned/abd-rapt-eng.htm (thanks HK)

First remove this accused from the equation.

Then ask yourself these questions.

1. What is the most likely reason for this abduction/murder

2. In general who would we most likely be looking for as the suspect

3. Now go back to the evidence

4. Now consider who's car Tori was in, where she was found, the condition of her body, the behavior before and after of the accused.

What does common sense tell us? JMO

"Keeping it simple". MOO

 

[Jezbel]

one would place ones hand there as leverage to get put of the back seat.

I agree if his was a two door car, but it's a four door, you don't climb forward and out. I have a four door and sometimes am in the back with my daughter, i just open the door and get out, no need for me to hold onto to the back of the front seat.

JMO

 

[Jezbel]

The hammer assault happened right outside the car and that door was open, according to TLM's testimony. Since Tori's blood was found, and clothes/shoes had been discarded, it's probably safe to assume that that garbage bag was pierced by the hammer and wasn't very efficient in containing blood spatter. I can see how her blood could have gotten onto the open door frame.

JMO

I see what you're saying and understand your point, I have thought about that myself, but i just find it too much of a coincidence that it would have landed in the exact same spot as semen, yes I know it couldn't be proved if it was MR's but the chances of it landing there still seem very slim to me.

JMO

 

[Jezbel]

If only more people were capable of doing this Ardy. JMO

I think people are viewing the evidence different ways, to some what has been presented is proof enough of what happened, others want more concrete evidence, forensic or otherwise.

JMO

 

[SFB73]

If you look at the spot where the blood and semen were found on the passenger seat, it is on the side gusset about 3 or 4 inches below the headrest. If this seat folded down fully, it would make an excellent platform to elevate a female participant for sexual activity with a male standing outside the car, the area where the evidence was found matches up to relatively the same area where the genetailia of both people would be positioned if having sex in a position like this. Of course this is just a theory and would only be possible if the seats in those vehicles fold completely down so the headrest would be aligned with the glovebox. Again, this is not critical evidence anyhow as it could have been there long before the day in question. The key evidence in my opinion is the blood drop left from VS that was mixed with sperm, unfortunately it couldn't be determined who's sperm it was. Common sense would lead one to think the obvious.

 

[Flowercb]

That isn't the motive Derstine is putting forward. He says that she told him much later on during the drive, that it was for a drug debt. So I'm not sure where this coming from.

At that point, MTR should have turned around and driven home. The fact that he didn't and continued with the girl in his car is enough to convict. IMO:twocents:

 

[Flowercb]

I think people are viewing the evidence different ways, to some what has been presented is proof enough of what happened, others want more concrete evidence, forensic or otherwise.

JMO

Like a confession. <modsnip>, there is more than enough evidence, circumstantial and concerete to convict MTR. I went into this with an open mind and it was closed after facts/evidence/personality/behaviour/relationships.....were presented.JMO:jail: