weekend discussion thread: 4/14-16/2012

[Flossie JMO]

Link is not working. Thanks though.

oh sorry let me see if I can find the rest of the text of the article

 

[Flossie JMO]

Link is not working. Thanks though.

Hope it's ok to post longer portion of article, all I can find:

SUSPECT ACTED OUT OF REVENGE: TORI'S MOM
Charles Lewis and Adrian Humphreys, National Post
Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009

Terri-Lynne McClintic turned Michael Rafferty in to police -- telling officers about the abduction and murder of Victoria "Tori" Stafford -- only after she learned he was dating another woman while she was in jail, said the dead girl's mother.

"From what I am told, and I don't know if it stands true or not, but the only reason that she confessed was that she found out he had found another girlfriend out here and that was pretty much her way of getting back," Tara McDonald said.

<modsnip>

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1622098&p=2

 

[antiquegirl]

Okay, thanks for pointing that out. But how did TLM know that Tory would be walking alone that day?

Two possibilities and these are just guesses:

(1) TLM was staking out that school prior to April 8 and happened to "get lucky" that day

(2) TLM spoke to "someone" earlier that day and was told Tori would be alone

MOO!

 

[antiquegirl]

I'm not sure I would take CM's word on that. Also, if that was so, wouldn't defense have called CM to testify about that?

The defence has not had its turn yet. And for all we know, CM is lying in a hospice somewhere and may be too ill to testify.

JMO

 

[Flossie JMO]

<rsbm>

With all due respect Ardy, how do you think the reasons for the abduction would be supportive of either side's assertion?

An abduction is an abduction, regardless of the reason. If I were to abduct a minor simply because I was a weirdo who loved kids or wanted a playmate for my pet rabbit, it doesn't matter. It is the established fact that a child was taken without permission from the parent that constitutes the abduction, not the reasons for it.

MOO

Hi there, jmo, I think it would establish who drove the event so to speak. JMO

 

[Flossie JMO]

thanks flossie for your post ...

from what i read, it sounds like CM was upset with TM for not agreeing to breed their dogs, and perhaps so upset that TM didn't go back to CM's house again. is it possible that TLM was privy to either this discussion or the grudge her mother felt towards TM?

hi there, I wonder about this, and the drug debt TM stated JG had. Could it have been to C? I have no idea. I know TLM stated in her interview that she loves her Mom, it was in the context of the assaults, but I wonder, and wonder at if it could be a motive for the kidnap and brutal murder, and could be why she won't say so? Could her mother have been driving this?

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Hi there, jmo, I think it would establish who drove the event so to speak. JMO

I think that MTR should have known better tho, he should have known that no matter what you never take a child you don't know into your car. If indeed she told him she was babysitting, why would he go to Guelph. He should have just left them there and went to Guelph on his own.

 

[Flossie JMO]

I think there is alot CM could tell us.:moo:

Will look for a link, I do recall Cm saying something about telling, or selling, the true story. Not that I believe that, but it was in MSM somewhere. JMO

 

[flipflop]

Hope it's ok to post longer portion of article, all I can find:

SUSPECT ACTED OUT OF REVENGE: TORI'S MOM
Charles Lewis and Adrian Humphreys, National Post
Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009

Terri-Lynne McClintic turned Michael Rafferty in to police -- telling officers about the abduction and murder of Victoria "Tori" Stafford -- only after she learned he was dating another woman while she was in jail, said the dead girl's mother.

"From what I am told, and I don't know if it stands true or not, but the only reason that she confessed was that she found out he had found another girlfriend out here and that was pretty much her way of getting back," Tara McDonald said.

<modsnip>

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1622098&p=2

This link from May 2009 and the other link posted a few posts ago, also from the same month, were both written before anyone admitted to drug use, just saying. We later found out who was addicted to oxy and who was dealing, so who knows if these quoted stories were a cover for any type of drug connection.

 

[Macright]

so it seems that TM knew from the start that this might be revenge on the part of TLM..maybe the breeding of the dogs was a way to pay down a drug debt...but it fell through..I would imagine $400.00 was a lot of money to someone like CM/TLM/TM/JG... just curious...since none of these individuals were working...what was their source of income...I believe I read that both TLM & TM were out that day picking up food stamps.... sad... JMO

 

[Flossie JMO]

I'm not sure I would take CM's word on that. Also, if that was so, wouldn't defense have called CM to testify about that?

Hey I totally understand your opinion. Just putting the article out there. No idea if she will be called or is alive etc.

 

[Flossie JMO]

Sorry JBean, will try and find a working link, and understand copyright won't allow me posting the whole article. That's always a problem I know, articles in many cases are no longer available once some time passes.

 

[Macright]

This link from May 2009 and the other link posted a few posts ago, also from the same month, were both written before anyone admitted to drug use, just saying. We later found out who was addicted to oxy and who was dealing, so who knows if these quoted stories were a cover for any type of drug connection.

actually if memory serves me, TM had already given an interview in her backyard and admitted to using oxy....:moo: before these two were arrested..

 

[brighidin]

Two possibilities and these are just guesses:



(2) TLM spoke to "someone" earlier that day and was told Tori would be alone

MOO!

Who do you mean by "someone"? TM?
Why would "someone" tell TLM, a veritable stranger, save for two chance drug related meetings, that Tori was going to walk home alone?

Tori never walked home alone: her brother or grandma dealt with that. Besides, no one knew that she was going to be walking home alone since TM assumed her brother was going to walk with her, and he did go back to find her, it was just too late.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19472771.html
When she did not return home from Oliver Stephens school with her brother, mom and her family began a frantic and futile search before going to the police about 6 p.m.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19474236.html
This was supposed to be the first time Tori and her brother were walking home from school alone.

No one knew Tori was going to walk home alone because she wasn't supposed to.

moo

 

[Flossie JMO]

Who do you mean by "someone"? TM?
Why would "someone" tell TLM, a veritable stranger, save for two chance drug related meetings, that Tori was going to walk home alone?

Tori never walked home alone: her brother or grandma dealt with that. Besides, no one knew that she was going to be walking home alone since TM assumed her brother was going to walk with her, and he did go back to find her, it was just too late.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19472771.html
When she did not return home from Oliver Stephens school with her brother, mom and her family began a frantic and futile search before going to the police about 6 p.m.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19474236.html
This was supposed to be the first time Tori and her brother were walking home from school alone.

No one knew Tori was going to walk home alone because she wasn't supposed to.

JMO if it happened, it was not TM that told anyone. JMO


(McDonald had moved into a house at Frances St. a week before. April 8 2009 was the first day Tori would be allowed to walk home alone from school.)

&#8220;Did your mother regularly pick them (Daryn and Tori) up from school,&#8221; asked Derstine.

&#8220;Yes.&#8221;

&#8220;Whose idea was it that they would walk home (that day)?

&#8220;Mine.&#8221;

Except for her mother and boyfriend, McDonald testified that no one knew that Tori was allowed to walk home alone that day.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...nvestigation-one-of-opp-s-largest-court-hears

 

[Macright]

Who do you mean by "someone"? TM?
Why would "someone" tell TLM, a veritable stranger, save for two chance drug related meetings, that Tori was going to walk home alone?

Tori never walked home alone: her brother or grandma dealt with that. Besides, no one knew that she was going to be walking home alone since TM assumed her brother was going to walk with her, and he did go back to find her, it was just too late.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19472771.html
When she did not return home from Oliver Stephens school with her brother, mom and her family began a frantic and futile search before going to the police about 6 p.m.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19474236.html
This was supposed to be the first time Tori and her brother were walking home from school alone.

No one knew Tori was going to walk home alone because she wasn't supposed to.

it's strange that if Tori knew her brother would be back to walk her home and was told before hand that this would be the case why would she not wait for him...this leads me to believe that TLM concocted another lie and told Tori that she was sent to take her home....and since Tori knew TLM (somewhat through their dogs and Mother's contacts with TLM's Mother she went off with her...:moo:

 

[dar107]

I am interested to know everyone's opinions on what will happen after the crown rests. Do you think that Derkstine will be calling witnesses, and presenting a case for MR?

Or do you think the defence will rest with only closing arguments, attacking the crowns case chapter by chapter, trying to create doubt in the jury that the crown has proved it's case beyond reasonable doubt?

I am very curious about this. Also IIRC, the time for Derkstine to make an opening statement would have been right after the Crowns opening, and he chose not too. Am i just confused about this, as it seems more logical that Defence would make their opening after the crown rests? Any input on this would be appreciated!

 

[antiquegirl]

actually if memory serves me, TM had already given an interview in her backyard and admitted to using oxy....:moo: before these two were arrested..

Your memory is correct. This is the MSM article from May 16, 2009:

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/635366--tori-s-mother-admits-addiction

(Not bashing anyone here. Just answering a question and confirming Macright's memory.)

 

[gardenia]

i think this "revenge" idea or "drug debt" was what was on everyone's minds when VS first disappeared... and i was always under the impression from TM's press conferences that she knew 'something' & thought that it would all get worked out (JMO!).

 

[brighidin]

JMO if it happened, it was not TM that told anyone. JMO


(McDonald had moved into a house at Frances St. a week before. April 8 2009 was the first day Tori would be allowed to walk home alone from school.)

&#8220;Did your mother regularly pick them (Daryn and Tori) up from school,&#8221; asked Derstine.

&#8220;Yes.&#8221;

&#8220;Whose idea was it that they would walk home (that day)?

&#8220;Mine.&#8221;

Except for her mother and boyfriend, McDonald testified that no one knew that Tori was allowed to walk home alone that day.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...nvestigation-one-of-opp-s-largest-court-hears

Thanks. I was looking for more detailed tweets but only found the LFP recaps. The part I bolded above doesn't mesh with Tori being allowed to walk home alone though. One sentence says "they" meaning Tori and her brother and the other says Tori alone. Frustrating!

I thought I read something before about her brother walking another kid home and then going back for Tori, which indicates to me that they were going to walk home together. I'll have to find that, unless any one else wants to do that.