What do the profilers say?

Holdontoyourhat said:
Lets compare JBR's killer and Dutroux anyway, even though you said I can't:
  • We know they both killed.
  • Both are pedophiles.
  • Both lied to their victims.
  • We know they both used the basement for crime against children.

"Both are pedophiles?"
We don't know if JonBenet's killer was a pedophile because her killer, unlike Dutroux, hasn't been identified yet, so it could all have been a staged scene. And the fact that JB showed signs of prior sexual abuse doesn't mean that the person who killed her was a pedophile.

"Both lied to their victims"
How do we know if the person who killed JB lied to her?

"We know they both used the basement for crime against children"
Dutroux kept girls in his own basement for months, whereas JB's dead body was merely found in the basement.
 
In Ghost of Christmas Past

Obsessed reporter, Jeffery Scott Shapiro, reveals a dark under world behind the Ramsey case

He advances his reasons why he considers an IDI the most obvious theory and profiles those individuals he considers to be likely intruder suspects e.g.

The Prophet
The Chase Case
The Falcon
The Santa
The Wolf
The Saint

http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/122001/coverstory.html
 
Nehemiah said:
I think B said that if he told a secret, it would no longer be a secret.

Certainly kids keep secrets, as evidenced through child sexual abuse. The perp will most always play the secret game with the child, unless he/she is a very dumb perp, or fairly mentally challenged. But...in my experience with interviewing kids, they eventually begin to trip themselves up, even if they are fearful of the perp. Once they see the interviewer as someone to be trusted, often times they will spill the beans w/out much skill on the interviewer's part. It's just so much different than interviewing adults. (Plus, there is that fine line there that the interviewer not present leading questions; if so, the child most often will follow that lead and then you get into fabrication.) So, to kind of answer your question, Camper, sometimes it does matter how big a secret, and how much value the family puts on it. But, being interrogated by LE, and by either a social worker, psychologist or psychiatrist (I can't remember which now) with LE observing, I have to think that some clues could have been given by B that would have indicated some thing that went on in the house that night. Of course what we don't have, is the interview to read....to actually read the questions that were asked of B. So much lies in the interviewer and his/her techniques.

That's why if BDI, I think he truly doesn't know it...that the parents took over, made him think she was okay, sent him to bed, and then staged it for his protection. The only real way that I can go along with this train of thought, however, is if I follow BlueCrab's theory that the GJ figured it all out while B was on the stand. I just don't believe that as a 10 year old, he could withstand interrogation and not give something away.


Nehemiah,

My understanding of BlueCrab's BDI is that Burke along with some privately invited male sleepover guests, were illicitly indulging in some Erotic Asphyxiation with JonBenet as either the willing or unwilling recipient.

Due to their youthfulness or inexperience, either the guests or Burke possibly using a stun-gun in tandem, overdid the Asphyxiation aspect, rendering JonBenet unconscious or dead.

Although I suspect Burke is covered by the Colorado Children's Code regardless of whether he is guilty or innocent. His co-conspirators would not be, assuming they are above the age of legal responsibility. So what in law makes them a special case for not being prosecuted, and also for not prosecuting the parents for any alleged coverup. Assuming of course that the GJ figured it all out while Burke was on the stand?

There have been other cases where children both preteen and juvenile have committed homicide, and although the media has been restrained in naming names. Descriptions such as a young boy or a child related to the deceased is being interviewed, or a family member has been charged with ... Generally you are told an unamed child who may or not be related to the deceased' family is implicated, but the context and relationships between the parties allows you to figure out who is involved. Most certainly for those in the locality, on the ground, they will know who the family is. So in cases as serious as a homicide any particular state's Children's Code, is not a restraint upon reporting.

So this version of BDI is becoming rather specific in that if he is responsible either accidently or not, then this fact's status is incommunicado due to the Colorado Children's Code. Also its possible JonBenet's homicide has been staged as a secret for Burke's benefit. So if the GJ think he did it then its a secret and if his parents think he did it, its still a secret.

Personally I think there is something lacking in these versions of BDI.
 
Burke was only 2 weeks +/- away from being 10. Could he have done it? I think so.

But I don't think he could have written the note, nor withstood questioning without slipping up.
 
UKGuy said:
In Ghost of Christmas Past

Obsessed reporter, Jeffery Scott Shapiro, reveals a dark under world behind the Ramsey case

He advances his reasons why he considers an IDI the most obvious theory and profiles those individuals he considers to be likely intruder suspects e.g.

The Prophet

The Prophet is an interesting one. Does anyone know what his official status is for the JBR investigation? Has his DNA been tested?

I did a little sleuthing myself, and I found this old page from his wideawake website...

http://web.archive.org/web/19980215044705/wideawake.org/robo.html

It talks about how he spent Xmas of 1996 high on Robitussin.

I do not want to name names here, because I know that is against the rules, but it seems as though he went by a different name when posting some of his more off-beat material. If you remember his former email address (the one with prophet in it), you will realize how I know that this other website is also "The Prophet"...

http://dxm.darkridge.com/people/andy.html

Two particularly creepy items from that website: (1) The extreme violence in my mind is a warning of things to come; (2) XXXX has been known to sneak up on people.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
BR doesn't have the capability to do any of the things that happened in the R's house that night, IMO. He was neither physically nor mentally capable of doing any of the things that were done. He also lacked any criminal capacity.

And I totally 100% agree with you on this point.

My point was, IF BDI (and that is not my personal theory, btw) then it was most likely an accidental killing and the parents covered it up for B's sake...to mainly save him from the pain of his actions.
 
UKGuy said:
Nehemiah,

My understanding of BlueCrab's BDI is that Burke along with some privately invited male sleepover guests, were illicitly indulging in some Erotic Asphyxiation with JonBenet as either the willing or unwilling recipient.

Due to their youthfulness or inexperience, either the guests or Burke possibly using a stun-gun in tandem, overdid the Asphyxiation aspect, rendering JonBenet unconscious or dead.

Although I suspect Burke is covered by the Colorado Children's Code regardless of whether he is guilty or innocent. His co-conspirators would not be, assuming they are above the age of legal responsibility. So what in law makes them a special case for not being prosecuted, and also for not prosecuting the parents for any alleged coverup. Assuming of course that the GJ figured it all out while Burke was on the stand?

There have been other cases where children both preteen and juvenile have committed homicide, and although the media has been restrained in naming names. Descriptions such as a young boy or a child related to the deceased is being interviewed, or a family member has been charged with ... Generally you are told an unamed child who may or not be related to the deceased' family is implicated, but the context and relationships between the parties allows you to figure out who is involved. Most certainly for those in the locality, on the ground, they will know who the family is. So in cases as serious as a homicide any particular state's Children's Code, is not a restraint upon reporting.

So this version of BDI is becoming rather specific in that if he is responsible either accidently or not, then this fact's status is incommunicado due to the Colorado Children's Code. Also its possible JonBenet's homicide has been staged as a secret for Burke's benefit. So if the GJ think he did it then its a secret and if his parents think he did it, its still a secret.

Personally I think there is something lacking in these versions of BDI.

The only part of BlueCrab's theory to which I personally aspire is the possibility that IF BDI, then the GJ could have uncovered the truth during the proceedings. I have never posted that I thought B had an older accomplice, fashioned a garrotte, wrote the ransom note, performed EA, used a stun gun, etc.. I think if BDI, then it was an accidental killing and the parents covered it up for his protection...protection from the media, protection from his conscience, general protection from being parents and knowing that their surviving child would suffer for this horrendous act.

Also its possible JonBenet's homicide has been staged as a secret for Burke's benefit. So if the GJ think he did it then its a secret and if his parents think he did it, its still a secret.

Are we not saying the same thing here?
 
Nehemiah said:
The only part of BlueCrab's theory to which I personally aspire is the possibility that IF BDI, then the GJ could have uncovered the truth during the proceedings. I have never posted that I thought B had an older accomplice, fashioned a garrotte, wrote the ransom note, performed EA, used a stun gun, etc.. I think if BDI, then it was an accidental killing and the parents covered it up for his protection...protection from the media, protection from his conscience, general protection from being parents and knowing that their surviving child would suffer for this horrendous act.

Also its possible JonBenet's homicide has been staged as a secret for Burke's benefit. So if the GJ think he did it then its a secret and if his parents think he did it, its still a secret.

Are we not saying the same thing here?

Possibly, I just find the requirement for a legal secret or proscription upon publicity, and the family secret, although plausible as a motive, to explain away the rough edges less than satisfactory.
 
Voice of Reason said:
The Prophet is an interesting one. Does anyone know what his official status is for the JBR investigation? Has his DNA been tested?

I did a little sleuthing myself, and I found this old page from his wideawake website...

http://web.archive.org/web/19980215044705/wideawake.org/robo.html

It talks about how he spent Xmas of 1996 high on Robitussin.

I do not want to name names here, because I know that is against the rules, but it seems as though he went by a different name when posting some of his more off-beat material. If you remember his former email address (the one with prophet in it), you will realize how I know that this other website is also "The Prophet"...

http://dxm.darkridge.com/people/andy.html

Two particularly creepy items from that website: (1) The extreme violence in my mind is a warning of things to come; (2) XXXX has been known to sneak up on people.

How did you find these things? I have been searching for years for the same stuff? I do have a friend who "hard copied" the site, back in 98 or so, but since it came down, I thought it had been blocked from all search engines. If you found this, try to find "barbie the ultimate 🤬🤬🤬*", and he did use Andy Savage, but that wasn't his name , so you can use it without worry.
 
BlueCrab said:
aussiesheila,

Each of the three Ramseys -- John, Patsy, and Burke -- lied in separate police interviews about Burke being upstairs asleep in bed until finally awakened at 7:00 AM and taken to the White's house. All three Ramseys told the same story, which revealed a Ramsey conspiracy to lie about Burke's whereabouts prior to the 911 call at 5:52 AM.

The cops, with Burke's voice on the enhanced 911 tape, trapped the Ramseys by not letting them know they had Burke's voice on the 911 call until all three Ramseys had been individually interviewed. After the 1998 interviews were complete with respect to trapping the three Ramseys and locking in their responses about Burke's whereabouts at 5:52 AM, the cops told them they had Burke's voice on the 911 tape. All three were busted!

Shortly thereafter Burke changed his story and said he had been faking sleep -- but that's totally irrelevant. The 911 tape proves Burke was DOWNSTAIRS at 5:52 AM, not upstairs faking sleep. So even Burke's revised story is a lie.

BlueCrab
There you go again BlueCrab, asserting something as fact when it is not. This is not a fact - "Ramsey voices, including that of Burke were heard on the enhanced 911 tape" - this is an assertion made by some, disputed by others.

Even if Burke's voice is proven to be on that tape all it proves is that the Ramsey's lied about Burke being awake. And they could have lied for any number of reasons other than one of them killed JonBenet eg they just might have wanted to keep Burke out of it. It's a perfectly obvious and understandable reason. Haven't you thought of this? Yes of course you must have. So please stop ignoring this possibility for the purpose of propping up your theory.

Oh, I've just realised you've slipped in two BlueCrabFacts in your post. This is not a fact either - "Burke changed his story and said he had been faking sleep". You know Burke didn't change any story at all. The first time he was asked he said he had been faking sleep. Perfectly reasonable thing to do, I would have thought with a mother like Patsy ranting on in the next room. So please also stop twisting facts for the purpose of propping up your theory.
 
Camper said:
Quite a tennis match, but back to square one again.

For the tennis players, it was never about the money was it, at least not for an 'unidentified perp'. It may have been about protecting status and money, by covering up truth.

Nehemiah, great input. HOW TO keep a secret, does it matter on HOW large the secret is, or the family VALUE of keeping the secret? Anyone remember how long the interview with Burke was, he did say something to the effect that everyone has secrets. Wonder if that interview was recorded, BC do you know?

>>>

Why would a pedophile ask for such a family specific amount of money? Why would an intruder ask for such a family specific amount of money?

>>>

Watched LKL the other night that was a show of LK's 20 years on TV. I either had forgotten OR never saw the one with Steve Thomas and PR/JR. Steve FLAT verbally said that PR was good for it. JR took ombrage, wild and wooly is a mild description of his return volley.

I can see Steves view.

I can also see swirling a child against a tile wall with the red shirt half on and half off over JonBenet's head, and smashing her skull, leaving the child unconscious or in a state of convulsions. Then the coverup ceremony. THIS IS A NEW thought for me. So 'what' would a court of law do to mother now? Temporary insanity? How long is temporary would it cover hours and hours of prepping time to make it look like an intruder did IT, and what of the person who would HELP in the coverup in a case like that?

The night of December 25 could certainly have had an OMG moment, what do we do? The FBI, Steve Thomas and most of the world most likely thinks it is a possibility too.

Wish an attorney or judge would check in on WS today IF they are lurking, and help with answers to my questions. We at one time did have a judge who read here and posted legal information for us. Are you still here?

I would dearly love to see that entire show in full AGAIN after so many years.

UK Guy I will check out that link another time.


.

PR called 911 after finding the RN. The killer got away while JR and the police were busy getting money and looking for JBR in the neighborhood. JR found JBR in the basement after the police asked him to inspect the house more carefully.

There was never any 'coverup ceremony'.
 
Brefie said:
More like a cover up marathon - they had the time.
The time you're talking about was the time the intruder used to write the RN, make the garrote, and kill JBR.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
PR called 911 after finding the RN. The killer got away while JR and the police were busy getting money and looking for JBR in the neighborhood.

They looked for her in the neighborhood that morning? I wasn't aware of this; can you source it, please?
 
Nehemiah said:
And I totally 100% agree with you on this point.

My point was, IF BDI (and that is not my personal theory, btw) then it was most likely an accidental killing and the parents covered it up for B's sake...to mainly save him from the pain of his actions.
BR was probably asleep within minutes of coming home and stayed that way until morning.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
The time you're talking about was the time the intruder used to write the RN, make the garrote, and kill JBR.

There was no intruder.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
BR was probably asleep within minutes of coming home and stayed that way until morning.

Well, possibly...but not necessarily since all we have to go on are the R's words.
 
Nehemiah said:
They looked for her in the neighborhood that morning? I wasn't aware of this; can you source it, please?
What, everything needs to be sourced? I can tie my shoes, and I know that PR described JBR to the 911 operator, and that means the police put her description on the air.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
This is so wrong its not even funny. Pedophiles dont have a code for moral conduct which says they never kidnap, ransom, kill, or whatever. You said they do. There's no standard for pedophilic conduct, that they abide by.

Prove it, show me just ONE pedophile that molested & kidnapped for ransom. All it would take for you to disprove what I stated is a single link to such a case...Ain't gonna happen but why don't you go ahead and try? You're wrong!

Just because you continue to insist they do, doesn't make it so.

I keep saying to myself I am still a size 5...but guess what?
 

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