What One Thing?!?!

[Mrs. Holmes]

According to the autopsy report, the rope used to tie the wrists was "not attached to the neck ligature or the ankle bindings." She was NOT hog-tied.

It is not conclusive. There was more than enough rope dangling from her hand bindings to have hog tied her. We don't know exactly what AS did when he found her.

If those are actual foot marks on the wall it would add to the theory that she was lowered by someone over the balcony. If she became conscious or was conscious she could have tried to fight it even with legs hog tied swung against the wall.

 

[time]

None of those killers hung their victims or used loose bindings. The alternative is that a loosely bound and conscious RZ gets carried out to the balcony and dropped off the edge without her pulling out of her bindings and without putting up a struggle or damaging the narrow door, and without the killer leaving foot prints.
RZ being unconscious is very important to the murder theory in this case. That is why the injuries to her head are so important to those who believe it was murder.

Well, I think the killer still could have been female - there is no absolute proof those are Rebecca's footprints. However, I still think she could have been hung from below. She could have been hit while out in the courtyard also.

 

[jjenny]

All her injuries are to the front of her neck. She has none to the spine and no injuries to the back of the neck. Based on this Dr. CW said he can't rule out strangulation. Presumably she could have been strangled and then hung from below instead of execution style hanging from the balcony.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

From everything I've read on this case....I firmly believe that LE got this about as wrong as the Casey Anthony jury did on that verdict.

 

[curiousjo]

It is not conclusive. There was more than enough rope dangling from her hand bindings to have hog tied her. We don't know exactly what AS did when he found her.

If those are actual foot marks on the wall it would add to the theory that she was lowered by someone over the balcony. If she became conscious or was conscious she could have tried to fight it even with legs hog tied swung against the wall.

You are correct. I remember reading that AS untied RZ hands after he found her. If true, the only person who knows if she was hogtied is AS. Makes no sense that he would untie her hands - yet not untie the rope strangling her neck! Heck, why untie anything since she was obviously dead...

I do think RZ was knocked unconscious, tied up, and hung. She may have regained consciousness at some point. What a terrible death.

Hope the case is re opened soon! Any AS, JS or DS sitings? They seem to be very quiet.

 

[dovebar]

How many million-dollar mansions happen to have tables in the yard with broken legs? If you were a millionaire, wouldn't you have something like that repaired or thrown in the trash? I've literally never known anyone to keep a table with a broken leg in the yard because the minute someone set something on it, it would collapse.

Isn't it more likely that someone stood on the table to help hang her from below, and the little dust disturbed above is because she didn't go over the rail - someone disturbed it in putting their hands there and drawing the rope up and over to set it up. The combined weight of RZ and the perp on the table broke it, or she was stood on it and then it was kicked out from under her, perhaps by kicking the leg so the table dropped and so did she.

In addition to this, one thing that disturbs me is what others have mentioned - women don't search Asian and find creative, spectacular, visually shocking ways to kill themselves. They'd just take pills. Or just hang themselves inside the garage. Or just gas themselves in the garage. They don't paint odd sayings on the door with no prior history of weird behavior like this. However, men with previous violent pasts do frequently, unfortunately, kill the women in their lives.

 

[jjenny]

AS didn't untie her hands. Her hands were still bound behind her back at the wrists. It's in the autopsy report.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

AS didn't untie her hands. Her hands were still bound behind her back at the wrists. It's in the autopsy report.

I wonder about this....It would be good to get the exact details on this. This information came from somewhere. It could mean she was hog tied and what AS did is untie the rope that was tied from her legs to her hands. To perform compressions that he says he was doing in the 911 call he would have had to at least untie her hands from her feet so he could even try to get her in any kind of laying position?

It also puts into question how loose were the hand bindings? It is possible AS or the first on scene emergency people attempted to untie her and may have loosened the hand bindings.

 

[lauriej]

How many million-dollar mansions happen to have tables in the yard with broken legs? If you were a millionaire, wouldn't you have something like that repaired or thrown in the trash? I've literally never known anyone to keep a table with a broken leg in the yard because the minute someone set something on it, it would collapse.

..according to the A/R:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

"Adam ran into the main house to get a knife, pulled a nearby wooden table to the decedent's body, stood on top, cut the rope and laid the decedent's naked body on the grass."


..but------it didn't break FROM his standing on it.

Sept.2nd--press conference---@ 1hr. 6 minutes----

http://www.10news.com/video/29065367/index.html

( reporter asks about adam dragging the table over--and the broken leg.)

..sgt. nemeth: "based on the statement that we rec’d, and based on a piece of broken wood from that table, that we found, that table was dragged over there, to, so he could stand on it to cut her down".

..reporter: "and the leg broke on the way over"?

..sgt. nemeth: "the leg broke on the way over, and there was a piece of wood that we found that matched up with the leg".

-------"bizarre", as nina would say----that the table leg snapped off---and he stood on it anyway , to support his weight, and rebecca's..

 

[sundrop]

Based on a private statement of one of the close Zahau family members the table leg was already broken and had been when they visited the house months earlier.

 

[ufos8mycow]

The table being used makes no sense to me either.

I would like to know how tall the brother is. Considering Rebecca was 5'3 or so and the report says she was hanging 23.5 inches from the ground. Together that would mean that the top of her head was at most 7'2 from the ground. Then the rope was around her neck so let's take 6 inches off that as a minimum to reach the rope to cut. That leaves us with roughly 6'8 to reach the rope.

Now without knowing the brothers height I will use 6'(I'm 6'). That seems about average in the world. Now if a 6' man had a knife in his hand and extended it above his head it would reach 90" or 7'6. (I just did it against my wall barefoot and flatfooted.)

I see no reason why he would have had to get a broken table to cut her down. Even if he is a shorter person I think it would give him plenty of room to spare.

 

[MissJames]

The table being used makes no sense to me either.

I would like to know how tall the brother is. Considering Rebecca was 5'3 or so and the report says she was hanging 23.5 inches from the ground. Together that would mean that the top of her head was at most 7'2 from the ground. Then the rope was around her neck so let's take 6 inches off that as a minimum to reach the rope to cut. That leaves us with roughly 6'8 to reach the rope.

Now without knowing the brothers height I will use 6'(I'm 6'). That seems about average in the world. Now if a 6' man had a knife in his hand and extended it above his head it would reach 90" or 7'6. (I just did it against my wall barefoot and flatfooted.)

I see no reason why he would have had to get a broken table to cut her down. Even if he is a shorter person I think it would give him plenty of room to spare.

You need leverage to cut against the rope ,especially if it was difficult to cut . Just being able to get the knife up that high doesn't give you the ability to cut through it.
I think he would have to hold the rope with one hand and cut with the other ,closer to chest height ,or slightly above. JMO
I've stood on wobbly items when I had no other choice.

Coming across a person hanging will get the adrenaline flowing. Time is of the essence.

 

[ufos8mycow]

You need leverage to cut against the rope ,especially if it was difficult to cut . Just being able to get the knife up that high doesn't give you the ability to cut through it.
I think he would have to hold the rope with one hand and cut with the other ,closer to chest height ,or slightly above. JMO
I've stood on wobbly items when I had no other choice.

Coming across a person hanging will get the adrenaline flowing. Time is of the essence.

Rebecca weighed 100 lbs. So her weight alone was enough to keep the rope tight to make an easy cut. Also when both ends of a rope is tied off it takes little force to the rope to gain force enough to cut it.

Even if he had lifted her by the waist to relieve tension the rope would have to be cut with one hand. That means he used the ropes natural tautness to make the cut.

I don't think it is possible to hold a rope in one hand that is supporting 100 lbs. Not unless you are standing above the person/object and have the rope wrapped around your hand. Imagine you are standing on the same level as the weight you are trying to cut down. To reach out and grab a rope and raise it. The after the cut you're holding a small diameter rope that still has 100 lbs on it.

More likely you would put one arm around the weight/body and use the other hand to make the cut. Which takes me back to what I posted. She was only 2 feet from the ground. I would have no problem holding a 100 lb woman by the waist and have plenty of room to reach the rope to cut.

 

[dovebar]

Has there been a police reenactment of the way a 6', 175 lb man could stand on a table with a broken leg, support the additional weight of a 100 lb. woman, and have enough stability to cut a rope? How on earth would a broken leg not give way before he could cut the rope? It just seems impossible to me - even more impossible than RZ trussing herself up the way she did and jumping off the balcony.

 

[ufos8mycow]

Someone on the Rope & Knot thread already made up a very nice graphic for my point in the above posts.

Graphics

Seems others have the idea about the table too.

Also if you look at the picture on that page you will see that the broken leg side of the table is against the tree and that would allow someone to stand on it with some added safety.

So that adds a little to the discussion about the broken table leg.

 

[dovebar]

Horse patooties.

Everyone, go out, put a broken table against a tree, and put 280 lbs. of weight on it, minimum.

No offense.

 

[sundrop]

Wow, you just flew right by my previous post - the table leg was already broke and had been broken for months prior to the death.

 

[Zale]

Wow, you just flew right by my previous post - the table leg was already broke and had been broken for months prior to the death.

Are you saying Adam Shacknai LIED when he stated that a leg broke as he was pulling the 4-legged table over?

 

[dovebar]

Are you saying Adam Shacknai LIED when he stated that a leg broke as he was pulling the 4-legged table over?

Probably they would claim that it was broken but somehow just sitting on the leg, but AS didn't know it was broken so it "appeared" to break when he dragged it over.

What he's lying about, IMO, is that he stood on it.

 

[lauriej]

Wow, you just flew right by my previous post - the table leg was already broke and had been broken for months prior to the death.

..if that's the case, why would JS have not had it fixed, or replaced? it doesn't make sense to me to keep a broken table, and the broken off leg, around for months.

..and why would adam lie about it to LE ?