What Room?

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by why_nutt
I agree that the initial injury occurred in her bedroom. In my opinion, the crime scene photo of JonBenet's bed paints a clear scenario. JonBenet's killer believed that a blow to the head simply renders a person unconscious, as demonstrated in such comedy movies as 1941 and Animal House and National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. In my theory, JonBenet's killer gently removed the pillow from under JonBenet's head (I believe JonBenet was sleeping on her left side/stomach, which left her head turned so that the right side of her head was up, the left side of her head being against the bed), then put it over her head with a left hand, and delivered the head blow through the pillow with a right hand. This scenario would allow for the pillow to cushion the blow enough to avoid scalp lacerations, but the pillow was also thin enough to let much of the force through without absorbing it. I believe that JonBenet's killer then lifted the pillow off JonBenet with a left hand and without thinking, put the pillow near the foot of the bed. At that point, we have exactly what the intruder theorists always want via use of a stun gun; a truly unconscious JonBenet, who will not cry out or struggle while her hair is torn from her scalp when the ligature is knotted around her neck.

I dispute whether certain neck marks are from fingernails, but let us say they were. I believe that if they are nail marks, they are from the person who tied the ligature, and represent an attempt to remove the cord, an attempt that was abandoned when the killer realized that too much bodily physical evidence was at risk of being left in the effort. After all, it would not look good the next day if, for example, Patsy's hands were examined and several broken nails were found on her hands, Why, how would an innocent mother who had done nothing more than sleep be able to explain that?

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Nedthan Johns
Here's a thought I always wondered about the 2 knifes, perhaps Patsy or John began cutting the rope with the paring knife, finding it dull, they retrived Burkes from the cupboard and brought it down with them to the basement.

I wonder if the BPD ever checked the sharpness on the knifes, and I believe only Burke's knife yielded rope fibers, is that right?

911 tape disputes Ramseys' story Burke's voice is audible, contrary to parents' statement that he was in bed asleep when mom called
By KEVIN McCULLEN Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer

BOULDER, Colo. -- Burke Ramsey was awake and asking questions as his mother phoned police to report the disappearance of his 6-year-old sister, JonBenet, officials familiar with the murder investigation said Thursday.

A digitally enhanced tape recording of Patsy Ramsey's early morning 911 call -- which includes Burke's voice, according to the officials -- appears to contradict statements by the Ramseys that Burke was asleep in bed at the time.

Patsy Ramsey didn't hang up the telephone after placing the 911 call at 5:51 a.m. on Dec. 26, 1996, allowing a few moments of conversation between the family to be recorded, the sources said.

Boulder police, who have never publicly released the 911 recording, took the tape to a California laboratory for a sound enhancement in April 1997.

John Ramsey and Burke Ramsey, then 10, can be heard on the tape, according to the officials.

The sources described this sequence:

Patsy Ramsey cries and screams, "Help me, Jesus, help me, Jesus," after setting the telephone down, apparently believing she had disconnected the call.

Another voice -- identified as Burke Ramsey's -- is heard in the background. John Ramsey says to him, "We weren't speaking to you."

Burke Ramsey replies, "But what did you find?"

Boulder police and the Boulder District Attorney's office would not comment Thursday.

But an attorney for John Ramsey blasted what he called the "vicious leak" of the 911 tape's contents. Hal Haddon said whoever revealed the information is guilty of "criminal misconduct" and should be indicted.

"This vicious leak is one more example of the pattern of official misconduct which has characterized this investigation for the past 19 months," he said in a written statement.

"Police sources leak what they claim is critical evidence and spin it against the Ramseys. The Ramseys are helpless to reply because they do not have access to the evidence.

"The situation is a disgrace to the criminal justice system, which appears powerless to prevent it."

The Ramseys insisted Burke Ramsey was asleep when Patsy Ramsey found the ransom note demanding $118,000 for JonBenet's return and when she dialed 911 to report her daughter missing, according to the officials familiar with the investigation.

The couple made that statement soon after their daughter's death, and again in July during 20 hours of separate interviews with investigators from the Boulder County District Attorney's office, according to the sources.

Police listed the enhanced 911 tape as one of the reasons to take the case to a grand jury during a two-day presentation of evidence in early June to District Attorney Alex Hunter and his assembled experts.

John and Patsy Ramsey have steadfastly denied involvement in their daughter's death. But Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner has said they continue under an "umbrella of suspicion."

Burke Ramsey was interviewed in Atlanta in July. Beckner had said police considered him an important witness in the case.

Attorneys not connected to the case had different perspectives on what the tape means.

"It's significant because if this contradicts the statements of John and Patsy and Burke Ramsey, you can reasonably conclude that there was a reason for them to mislead law enforcement officers," said Craig Silverman, a former Denver prosecutor now in private practice.

"It explains the 'umbrella of suspicion' that we've been hearing about, but it doesn't advance our knowledge as to what person did what," he said.

Defense attorney Scott Robinson questioned whether such a tape recording would be admissible in court. He said there is not a lot of case law on such a situation.

Even assuming the tape is valid, Robinson said he quickly could think of six or seven scenarios that would explain the snippet of dialog, with interpretations ranging "from the sinister to the sad and sympathetic."

Hunter's office will not disclose the starting date or location for the Boulder grand jury. But sources said the 16-member grand jury would be convened sometime after Labor Day.
(Kevin McCullen writes for Rocky Mountain News in Denver. Staff writer John Ensslin contributed to this report.)
AP-NY-08-20-98 2314EDT
August 21, 1998
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0821jonn1.html

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by eliza
I have to disagree with you Ned when it comes to whether Burke was able to inflict the head wound. I think Burke was fully capable of delivering that blow, especially if he had been angry at the time. What Burke was incapable of doing is covering up the crime scene the way it was done. I feel the reason Burke asked "what did you find" is because he had no part in the plan to cover-up. I think the Ramseys sent him to his room and he was told to stay there until they came to get him. I feel when he hears his mother on the 911 call and talking about a ransom note I think he was truly confused. I think John was very angry when Burke suddenly appears, asking questions at a very crucial moment when he was told to stay in his room. This could be the reason John snaps at Burke at the very end of the 911 call.

Ok...but Patsy said "the KILLER WROTE THE RANSOM NOTE...right???"; so now what does that mean???; FYI
below/very compelling INFO from R's...!!!~~~...don't ya think?

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/note/

Who Murdered JonBenét Ramsey? To answer that question, perhaps it's best to listen to John and Patsy Ramsey, the parents of the victim:

LARRY KING: "So you agree that whoever authored the ransom note probably killed the child?"

JOHN RAMSEY: "I agree."

PATSY RAMSEY: "I would agree with that."

(Source: the Larry King Live show - May 31, 2000 - CNN cable channel)

Who Wrote Ransom Note? :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

o.m.g...now what???...!~!!~~~

 

[Ivy]

Blaze... Patsy has lied many times during the investigation. What makes you think that her saying the killer wrote the note wasn't a lie as well? Why, after lying and lying and lying, would she tell the truth about something so significant to the case, something that could implicate her as the killer? I don't believe for a minute that she would. Anyway, why would she find it necessary in the first place to say the killer wrote the note? If an intruder killed JonBenet, wouldn't it be a no-brainer to assume he wrote the note?

I am convinced that Burke killed JonBenet, and that John and Patsy sent him to his room and then staged the coverup. Patsy wrote the note, but she is not the killer.

 

[Shawna]

OMG There are e mail documents on the Cassiopaea site. An employee who worked for another Boulder CEO Jirka Resavy said he was fired for talking about the Jonbenet Ramsey case




http://www.cassiopaea.com/archive/wiley3.htm

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Nedthan Johns
Ned: I have a hard time believing that any 9 year old child could inflict a skull fracture of that magnitude, therefore Burke is IMO the less likely suspect. To small to have done such a thing IMO.

First Ned, Burke was 3 weeks from turning 10 years old. And second, I guess you never had a son in Little League baseball or you would know differently.

Besides the flashlight, there was a baseball bat found at the crime scene. Any normal 9 or 10 year old boy could swing it hard enough to crack the skull of a 6 year old little girl.

And finally, if Burke was asking "what did you find" on the 911 call it was probably because he couldn't understand what the ransom note was all about. He wouldn't have been present when the note was written and the majority of the staging took place to cover up his actions.

 

[Nehemiah]

Ned, I agree that I don't think Patsy would have mismatched JB's hair decor, especially on such an important day as Christmas, when everyone is dressed up.

Maybe she did, or maybe not...According to the maketoast site, these items were removed from the body:

# black/white/red hairtie
# blue hairtie
# a third hairtie

So, JB did have a matching hairtie (black/white/red). Perhaps the blue and "third" hairtie were elastic bands that were under the hairties? Would someone such as the coroner characterize "hairtie" and "elastic band" as both being hairties? I just don't know but that did catch my eye.

I am a mom of boys so have never dealt with hair decorations but I do know that they match the clothing.

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Pook
Yeah - put an actual golf club up against the photo of the skull fracture. Then measure the club out and check the measurement dimentions of the fracture. The club will slide directly inside the hole. Oddly enough, even the pitch of the club on the #6 measures up to it.

Maybe this is why(the reason) John had to have his golf clubs retrieved by sister-in-law Pam...ya think?

04-18-2000 Steve Thomas, "JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation"

Page 48:

"That evening John went to Crist Mortuary to discuss funeral arrangements. In addition to the usual rites, transportation was needed for burial to Atlanta. Patsy awoke while he was gone and staggered from the bedroom to a couch, bearely able to speak, and told her sisters she needed some things from Fifteen Street.

John was overhead to ask somebody quietly, "Did you get my golf bag?"

When I learned of that statement, it seemed totally out of order.

There had been two golf bags in the house, but he had not specified which one he wanted.

Neither bag was collected by police

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Nedthan Johns
Ivy: John and Patsy may not have known that Burke had struck JonBenet on the head with the Maglite. After all, there was no outward indication that her skull had been fractured. Burke probably didn't admit to them he'd struck her. Why would he admit it if he thought that if he kept quiet about it, they'd never find out he'd done that to her too, in addition to everything else?

Ned: I have a hard time believing that any 9 year old child could inflict a skull fracture of that magnitude, therefore Burke is IMO the less likely suspect. To small to have done such a thing IMO.

Burkes question on the 911 call of "what did you find" clearly implies he had no idea of what was going on, when he woke that morning

Ditto; Burke IMHO is (thePatsy?) faking-it-to-make-it-to-stay-alive for now until he can come up with a solution(plan) to get/bring JUSTICE FOR JONBENET...IMHO, he will be the one to move/go forward with this!

http://crime.about.com/library/weekly/aa101600b.htm
Burke's doodles... Have you compared those to patients --

crimeADM :young boys -- who have said that they drew similar things and they were sexual in nature?

Have looked at a lot of Kid's drawings. Kids like all people Hodges are very aware and deep down know about sexual matters from day one almost..

crimeADM Do you feel Burke is in danger? Probably not. Ramseys despite their deceit are Christians in their own way and very concerned about next world. They need

Hodges:
Burke to "justify" their cover-up and Im convinced feel God has already forgiven them for continuing to lie because they are protecting Burke. They are sadly mistaken now. Burke's doodles were done after the murder. Wouldn't they

crimeADM: indicate more his thoughts about the murder than anything before?

Hodges: Yes, which is what I showed they did in my book. When your sister is murdered in your household you are constantly terrified. He is in incredible pain and needs the truth.

Only that will save him or he will spend his whole life defending
his parents when he knows the truth deep down.

crimeADM Did Steve Thomas work with you on the book at all?

Hodges Not at all. We spoke after the book.

crimeADM So you believe Burke has firsthand knowledge of the murder and is afraid -- or is otherwise unable -- to discuss it?

Hodges: As studies show there are really no secrets in families. Deep down kids know everything only they don't know they do but find ways of telling you. Recall how JonBenet told the gardener "Do roses know their thorns hurt"--decode that idea and you see she's telling you about abuse.

...for more pull above URL and read on...

 

[Toltec]

Christmas letter 1995....Burke is taking sailing lessons in Charlevoix; he is beginning to be "quite the sailor!".

Christmas letter 1996..."Burke's little league team was #1."

Burke can swing a bat and Burke can tie knots.

 

[Toth]

You can say he was on the verge of becoming a ten year old solo circumnavigator of the world who was expert in knot tying and bat swinging all you want; he was asleep the entire night.
The dna is not his.
The note is not his.
The voice on the 911 tape is non-existent.

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Toth

he was asleep the entire night.
If he was up all night dancing a jig, YOU wouldn't know it, Toth.

The dna is not his.
True. But the DNA appears to not be from ANYBODY. No source. No way of telling if it's even related to the crime. No way to tell if it's only contamination.

The note is not his.
That's obvious. Wasn't Patsy a good Mom to write it for him!

The voice on the 911 tape is non-existent.
This is still an unknown. However, the recently released CD recording of the 911 tape has Patsy's voice on it just as Thomas documented. Therefore there is no reason to doubt that Burke is also on it.

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Toth
You can say he was on the verge of becoming a ten year old solo circumnavigator of the world who was expert in knot tying and bat swinging all you want; he was asleep the entire night.
The dna is not his.
The note is not his.
The voice on the 911 tape is non-existent.

I agree. IMHO Burke was "pretending to be asleep to stay alive!"; let's go to the source of Burke info in Xmas ltrs... it's a Patsy thought/thing about Burke (for whatever/unknown reason) IMHO! :dontknow:

 

[ajt400]

Originally posted by Pook
Yeah - put an actual golf club up against the photo of the skull fracture. Then measure the club out and check the measurement dimentions of the fracture. The club will slide directly inside the hole. Oddly enough, even the pitch of the club on the #6 measures up to it.

If one cannot make the assumption, or even eduacated guess as to whther or not a stun gun could or could not have been used int he murder with nothing but a photo---then the same has to be said of the golf club.

 

[SisterSocks]

I think the dirty deed happened in basement where the scream was heard by neighbor...

 

[Toltec]

While Burke is capable of striking JonBenet and tying knots, I do not believe he is responsible for his sisters death. I do believe however; that he is responsible for molesting JonBenet. He and JonBenet played Doctor which angered Patsy...and Patsy being Patsy blamed JonBenet. My belief is that Patsy struck JonBenet and staged a kidnapping. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe Patsy tied the garrote tightly. Her body swelled and the cord became embedded in her neck.

This is my opinion which cannot be snuck over to yonder forum.