What small foreign faction?

[eileenhawkeye]

You realize that anyone can write anything on Wiki without researching it (kinda like IDI here). If you search a bit more, you will find that Islam is practiced in North Korea.

This is from the CIA's website about religion in North Korea:

traditionally Buddhist and Confucianist, some Christian and syncretic Chondogyo (Religion of the Heavenly Way)
note: autonomous religious activities now almost nonexistent; government-sponsored religious groups exist to provide illusion of religious freedom

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/kn.html

 

[DeeDee249]

I doubt North Korea encourages the practice of ANY religion, but regardless, Islam is practiced there, along with the faiths you mentioned. North Korea is not a Muslim country, as Iraq, Iran, etc, are, but there are Muslims there, and the overtly anti- West/anti-America atmosphere gives them a shared focus.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I doubt North Korea encourages the practice of ANY religion, but regardless, Islam is practiced there, along with the faiths you mentioned. North Korea is not a Muslim country, as Iraq, Iran, etc, are, but there are Muslims there, and the overtly anti- West/anti-America atmosphere gives them a shared focus.

Maybe you should concern yourself with your own sources instead of mine? Because if this is any indication...

 

[slug]

just spent some time looking at religion in N.Korea and i can find loads of mentions of christianity, buddasism, confusisium and the fact that the state funded religion is the main following there but no mention of muslims.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

How can NK have muslims without mosques? SK has mosques but still its not 2nd professed religion. DeeDee's just having fun?

 

[CathyR]

How can there be a foreign faction that has so little need of money that they ask for a mere 118,000.00? Why not 5 million or more? There is no foreign faction but the writer wants you to think so. The writer has some knowledge of political events and is not an totally uneducated person. The writer is lying in the note. There are no other "gentlemen" watching, there is no one monitoring the calls or traffic at the home. The killer is acting alone and the note stating all these facts of group participation is only a ploy to make the police, FBI, etc look for a group and not an individual.
I find it interesting that John Douglas believes the RN was written before the crime as no individual is going to be able to compose the RN after the fact. Too much excitement, adrenalin, going on to be able to write a RN. Why was the RN written on paper from the home? Two theories here- both from Douglas. The writer brought one with him but either feared being caught by it and decided to rewrite it, adding more information. Super planning- writing the RN from paper from the home to avoid being traced back to the killer.
Douglas also stated that Patsy's writing while somewhat similar, is so low on the scale of matching that a handful of other suspects matched the note better than she did.
The writer is trying to disguise handwriting.

 

[Tadpole12]

How can there be a foreign faction that has so little need of money that they ask for a mere 118,000.00? Why not 5 million or more? There is no foreign faction but the writer wants you to think so. The writer has some knowledge of political events and is not an totally uneducated person. The writer is lying in the note. There are no other "gentlemen" watching, there is no one monitoring the calls or traffic at the home. The killer is acting alone and the note stating all these facts of group participation is only a ploy to make the police, FBI, etc look for a group and not an individual.
I find it interesting that John Douglas believes the RN was written before the crime as no individual is going to be able to compose the RN after the fact. Too much excitement, adrenalin, going on to be able to write a RN. Why was the RN written on paper from the home? Two theories here- both from Douglas. The writer brought one with him but either feared being caught by it and decided to rewrite it, adding more information. Super planning- writing the RN from paper from the home to avoid being traced back to the killer.
Douglas also stated that Patsy's writing while somewhat similar, is so low on the scale of matching that a handful of other suspects matched the note better than she did.
The writer is trying to disguise handwriting.

Heyya CR.

Douglas also stated that Patsy's writing while somewhat similar, is so low on the scale of matching that a handful of other suspects matched the note better than she did. - CR

What is the source material for the Douglas comment.

I've read that other samples matched upon initial visual inspection, and were later eliminated,
but I have never read of anyone other than PR with having a 'cannot be eliminated as author' designation.

 

[Plenum7]

CathyR. If we accept that the "small foreign faction" scenario is misinformation, I still want to ask - which "small foreign faction" did the author have in mind? I'd be inclined to say *none in particular* except for the detail of the threat of beheading. I think the author had some sff in mind and is alluding to a particular foreign group. But which? Cubans? Palestinians? Iraqis? Kuwaitis? Mexicans? I am also interested in the phrase "we respect your business but not the country it serves..." in this regard. Again - the author seems to have a sff in mind. Which one?

I agree. Any "small foreign faction" scenario does not match the paltry amount of money demanded as ransom. Although the perps only claim to be representing a small foreign faction - they don't claim to be in their employ. In general, the amount is a puzzle. As we know JR was worth millions. Why ask for such a small amount?

 

[DeeDee249]

Any "small foreign faction" scenario does not match the paltry amount of money demanded as ransom. Although the perps only claim to be representing a small foreign faction - they don't claim to be in their employ. In general, the amount is a puzzle. As we know JR was worth millions. Why ask for such a small amount?

On theory is that if Patsy wrote the note (with JR's help) they were trying to point as many fingers as they could in different directions (away from them). The ransom was almost exactly the amount of JR's bonus, and they were trying to also implicate a disgruntled employee.

 

[Plenum7]

On theory is that if Patsy wrote the note (with JR's help) they were trying to point as many fingers as they could in different directions (away from them). The ransom was almost exactly the amount of JR's bonus, and they were trying to also implicate a disgruntled employee.

My preferred scenario, in the first instance, is that there was an attempt to implicate the housekeeper. But all such scenarios depend upon the ransom note being written AFTER the crime. We then need to suppose that the Ramseys - having just brutally murdered a little girl - sat down and carefully calculated misinformation, staging etc. Some people think that is not psychologically plausible. I am not convinced. People are capable of all sorts of things. But I do think the note was carefully crafted, and so one wonders if it was written *before* the crime. But then it is hard to imagine in what scenario that might have happened. There are details in the note that make me think that perhaps it was written prior to the crime. Very strange.

If it was written after the crime and its whole purpose was the direct attention away from the Ramseys, then the Ramseys were indeed cold blooded, calculating monsters. That is what some people find hard to believe. The scenario becomes psychologically unlikely. But not impossible. And then - furthermore - I think it would have to follow that their cold-bloodedness could only be explained because they needed to hide something terrible, beyond the murder. Any evidence of that?

Was the note written before or after the crime?

 

[MurriFlower]

My preferred scenario, in the first instance, is that there was an attempt to implicate the housekeeper. But all such scenarios depend upon the ransom note being written AFTER the crime. We then need to suppose that the Ramseys - having just brutally murdered a little girl - sat down and carefully calculated misinformation, staging etc. Some people think that is not psychologically plausible. I am not convinced. People are capable of all sorts of things. But I do think the note was carefully crafted, and so one wonders if it was written *before* the crime. But then it is hard to imagine in what scenario that might have happened. There are details in the note that make me think that perhaps it was written prior to the crime. Very strange.

If it was written after the crime and its whole purpose was the direct attention away from the Ramseys, then the Ramseys were indeed cold blooded, calculating monsters. That is what some people find hard to believe. The scenario becomes psychologically unlikely. But not impossible. And then - furthermore - I think it would have to follow that their cold-bloodedness could only be explained because they needed to hide something terrible, beyond the murder. Any evidence of that?

Was the note written before or after the crime?

Try and factor in that it was written before the murder and by someone other than the Rs and you will probably find it isn't so strange or hard to understand.

 

[BBB167893]

I find it interesting that John Douglas believes the RN was written before the crime as no individual is going to be able to compose the RN after the fact. Too much excitement, adrenalin, going on to be able to write a RN.

I find it interesting, too, because all of his colleagues that the police talked to challenged that assertion.

Douglas also stated that Patsy's writing while somewhat similar, is so low on the scale of matching that a handful of other suspects matched the note better than she did.

He stated that because that's what the experts the Ramseys HIRED said. Nothing more.

The writer is trying to disguise handwriting.

No argument!

 

[BBB167893]

Heyya CR.

Douglas also stated that Patsy's writing while somewhat similar, is so low on the scale of matching that a handful of other suspects matched the note better than she did. - CR

What is the source material for the Douglas comment.

I KNOW what the source material is: Rile and Cunningham, the two analysts hired by the Ramseys. Even THEY couldn't eliminate her. They're the ones who came up with that phony "1-5" scale.

I've read that other samples matched upon initial visual inspection, and were later eliminated, but I have never read of anyone other than PR with having a 'cannot be eliminated as author' designation.

You read correctly, Tadpole.

 

[BBB167893]

My preferred scenario, in the first instance, is that there was an attempt to implicate the housekeeper.

I can see that. It would explain them saying "inside job" and how the writing looked like a woman had written it.

But all such scenarios depend upon the ransom note being written AFTER the crime.

Right.

We then need to suppose that the Ramseys - having just brutally murdered a little girl - sat down and carefully calculated misinformation, staging etc.

I don't think there was anything careful or calculated about it, at least not entirely.

Some people think that is not psychologically plausible. I am not convinced. People are capable of all sorts of things.

Damn skippy!

If it was written after the crime and its whole purpose was the direct attention away from the Ramseys, then the Ramseys were indeed cold blooded, calculating monsters.

Not necessarily.

That is what some people find hard to believe.

I know.

But not impossible. And then - furthermore - I think it would have to follow that their cold-bloodedness could only be explained because they needed to hide something terrible, beyond the murder.

Quite so.

Any evidence of that?

Enough for me!

Was the note written before or after the crime?

After.

 

[DeeDee249]

My preferred scenario, in the first instance, is that there was an attempt to implicate the housekeeper. But all such scenarios depend upon the ransom note being written AFTER the crime. We then need to suppose that the Ramseys - having just brutally murdered a little girl - sat down and carefully calculated misinformation, staging etc. Some people think that is not psychologically plausible. I am not convinced. People are capable of all sorts of things. But I do think the note was carefully crafted, and so one wonders if it was written *before* the crime. But then it is hard to imagine in what scenario that might have happened. There are details in the note that make me think that perhaps it was written prior to the crime. Very strange.

If it was written after the crime and its whole purpose was the direct attention away from the Ramseys, then the Ramseys were indeed cold blooded, calculating monsters. That is what some people find hard to believe. The scenario becomes psychologically unlikely. But not impossible. And then - furthermore - I think it would have to follow that their cold-bloodedness could only be explained because they needed to hide something terrible, beyond the murder. Any evidence of that?

Was the note written before or after the crime?

I see it the opposite way. I think it was written AFTER, and I'd say if it was written before, it was MUCH more cold-blooded. That would indicate a pre-meditated murder and I do not believe this was.

 

[Toltec]

On theory is that if Patsy wrote the note (with JR's help) they were trying to point as many fingers as they could in different directions (away from them). The ransom was almost exactly the amount of JR's bonus, and they were trying to also implicate a disgruntled employee.

Yeah, by Son of a B*#ch Tom Carson! Tom Carson was the one who fired Nedra and her two daughters and closed down the Access Graphics office in Atlanta.

John told Detective Linda Arndt that it was "an inside job".

The small foreign faction consisted of Tom Carson and the ex-employees of Access Graphics...who had dinner together at Pasta Jays.

The "we respect your bussiness but not the country that it serves" tells me that what the note is saying is that the ex-employees liked working at Access Graphics but did not like John Ramsey.

 

[madeleine]

Yeah, by Son of a B*#ch Tom Carson! Tom Carson was the one who fired Nedra and her two daughters and closed down the Access Graphics office in Atlanta.

John told Detective Linda Arndt that it was "an inside job".

The small foreign faction consisted of Tom Carson and the ex-employees of Access Graphics...who had dinner together at Pasta Jays.

The "we respect your bussiness but not the country that it serves" tells me that what the note is saying is that the ex-employees liked working at Access Graphics but did not like John Ramsey.

And who would have known better about JR's bonus than someone working with him.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Try and factor in that it was written before the murder and by someone other than the Rs and you will probably find it isn't so strange or hard to understand.

The RN placement should be a clue. JBR's bed, kitchen near phone would be the places JR or PR would put the RN if they were staging a kidnapping.

Every single RDI scenario has to establish some reason why the R's claimed the RN was on the rear staircase. When RDI attempts to explain why it is so obviously backpedaling.

Somebody even posted that PR put it in a place she's habitually used to. Hello?!?:waitasec: If RDI then they only 'stated' where they found the note. They didn't actually place the note anywhere. Why would they?

When we use logic and think about the placement of the RN and how superfluous it is to RDI, the phenomenon becomes more evidence of intruder. There's no purpose within RDI to claim the ransom note was found in an obscure place. It doesn't add to staging, it subtracts from it because it would beg the question why the back stairs and not the main stairs or JBR's bed or the kitchen near the phone?

The most logical staging placement would be on JBR's bed, because JR and PR would believe thats the first place parents would look for their daughter. Instead of finding their daughter, they found the ransom note.

The placement is an important clue because the bottom of the rear staircase, in a house with a main staircase, is not an appropriate place to leave a ransom note. There had to be a reason...

 

[claudicici]

RDI could argue the R's said that's where the note was found to implicate the housekeeper,who would leave notes there for PR.
If IDI,the intruder must have been familiar with the R's habits to know that they would use the spiral staircase.
IMO after everything I read recently I believe PR said the note was found there because the note was written to herself from herself.It makes sense to her because it describes her mind set.So it would be at a place that makes sense to her as well,which would be the bottom of the staircase where she would normally find notes.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

RDI could argue the R's said that's where the note was found to implicate the housekeeper,who would leave notes there for PR.
If IDI,the intruder must have been familiar with the R's habits to know that they would use the spiral staircase.
IMO after everything I read recently I believe PR said the note was found there because the note was written to herself from herself.It makes sense to her because it describes her mind set.So it would be at a place that makes sense to her as well,which would be the bottom of the staircase where she would normally find notes.

This is illogical, convoluted, and implausible.

The lack of logic is where we frame both a foreign faction AND the housekeeper.

The convolution is PR framing a housekeeper framing a foreign faction.

The implausible is where PR departs from where a kidnapper would normally place a ransom note, and instead, since she was 'writing a note from herself to herself' puts it in a place YOU claim is where all notes are normaly placed. That implies familiarity which directs attention inside the house, the opposite of the desired staging effect.

There's so many problems with your idea I probably didn't get them all!

RDI needs a logical, clear, and plausible scenario as to why PR/JR would claim the ransom note was found on the rear stairs. Just typing something doesn't do it. The ransom note author who wrote 'familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics' likely gave the placement of the ransom note some thought and consideration.