What small foreign faction?

[BBB167893]

Every single RDI scenario has to establish some reason why the R's claimed the RN was on the rear staircase.

Agreed.

Somebody even posted that PR put it in a place she's habitually used to. Hello?!?:waitasec: If RDI then they only 'stated' where they found the note. They didn't actually place the note anywhere. Why would they?

That's kind of the point, HOTYH. They probably DIDN'T place the note anywhere. They SAID it was there to put suspicion on someone who would know about that spot. That's how I look at it.

There's no purpose within RDI to claim the ransom note was found in an obscure place. It doesn't add to staging,

I challenge those assertions. Or I would, but cici seems to have a leg up.

The placement is an important clue because the bottom of the rear staircase, in a house with a main staircase, is not an appropriate place to leave a ransom note. There had to be a reason...

Agreed, again.

 

[BBB167893]

The lack of logic is where we frame both a foreign faction AND the housekeeper.

I'm not sure that was exactly the intent, but that "lack of logic" as you put it is the kind of thing I'd expect from an amateur!

The convolution is PR framing a housekeeper framing a foreign faction.

Sounds pretty consistent with what the feds said about "staging within staging" to me!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Steve Thomas: How would a stranger know which stairway PR would come down that morning? (p63).

Its a good question deserving a good answer. Its really a key question. Two stairs, the ransom note placed on only one of them.

If it was habit for PR to use the rear stairs, then she might put it on the rear stairs to direct attention toward a perp that was familiar with her habits. If the objective is to frame a foreign faction, then why point inward? Doesn't that cause more local questioning and suspicion? Wouldn't the housekeeper she was implicating then turn on PR with incriminating testimony and evidence? This idea, like the writing of the ransom note itself, is too self-defeating to be plausible or even taken seriously.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Sounds pretty consistent with what the feds said about "staging within staging" to me!

Archaic.

Nowadays, this should been phrased as a question. That is, 'was there staging within staging?' since its obvious 14 years later we dont know who killed JBR, why they killed her, why they wrote the ransom note, why it said what it said, or even what SBTC stands for.

 

[BBB167893]

If it was habit for PR to use the rear stairs, then she might put it on the rear stairs to direct attention toward a perp that was familiar with her habits.

I think that's what we're saying.

If the objective is to frame a foreign faction, then why point inward?

I think it was more "throw s*** at the wall and see what sticks."

Doesn't that cause more local questioning and suspicion?

Maybe. It can also cause reasonable doubt.

Wouldn't the housekeeper she was implicating then turn on PR with incriminating testimony and evidence?

According to you guys, that's what happened anyway! For all I know, maybe that was part of it: "who would you most likely believe? A pair of rich socialites, or a flat-broke, redneck servant?"

This idea, like the writing of the ransom note itself, is too self-defeating to be plausible or even taken seriously.

Well, HOTYH, that's where you're wrong, because apparently, there are several people who take it seriously. I'm not necessarily one of them; I'm just trying to see it from their POV.

 

[BBB167893]

Archaic.

Yeah, that's the kind of answer I expected. More's the pity.

Nowadays, this should been phrased as a question.

Okay: "why was there staging within staging?" Anything to oblige!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well, HOTYH, that's where you're wrong, because apparently, there are several people who take it seriously.

Thats the whole problem, SD. There will always be 'several people' willing to take ANYTHING seriously.

 

[BBB167893]

Thats the whole problem, SD. There will always be 'several people' willing to take ANYTHING seriously.

HOTYH, you took the words right out of my mouth, brother!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Steve Thomas: How would a stranger know which stairway PR would come down that morning? (p63).

Obviously ST was going about some way of implicating PR, an innocent parent, for a brutal and senseless child murder. It was either that or the house cat.

Really, though its a very good question. Within IDI, how would a stranger know which stairway? There are several possible answers:

1. It didn't matter which surface it was on, they figured it would be found. They chose the first conveninent surface.
2. They had to put it there reluctantly at a moment because there was no time for anywhere else.
3. They were there at 6 AM, heard which way someone was coming, placed the note and ran. Guarantees a few minutes delay while PR and JR read the note. Not looking out the window.
4. The note was on the rear stairs all night long. The front stairs were being watched by one intruder the entire time.

RDI: PR was writing a note from herself to herself and wanted herself to find it easily so she put it where she always leaves notes to herself. :banghead:

 

[BBB167893]

Steve Thomas: How would a stranger know which stairway PR would come down that morning? (p63).

Obviously ST was going about some way of implicating PR,

I'd agree with that.

an innocent parent, for a brutal and senseless child murder.

Well, obviously I don't agree with several of those terms. I don't think she was innocent, and I don't think we can truly call it murder. But you knew that already.

It was either that or the house cat.

Yeah, from what I've seen, those WOULD be the choices! The house cat makes more sense than the Three Stooges from Ongo Bongo Land.

Really, though its a very good question. Within IDI, how would a stranger know which stairway?

Now you're talking.

There are several possible answers:

1. It didn't matter which surface it was on, they figured it would be found. They chose the first convenient surface.
2. They had to put it there reluctantly at a moment because there was no time for anywhere else.
3. They were there at 6 AM, heard which way someone was coming, placed the note and ran. Guarantees a few minutes delay while PR and JR read the note.
4. The note was on the rear stairs all night long. The front stairs were being watched by one intruder the entire time.

Interesting.

RDI: PR was writing a note from herself to herself and wanted herself to find it easily so she put it where she always leaves notes to herself. :banghead:

I don't think that's what my fellows are trying to say, HOTYH. If it were, I'd be :banghead: right with you. But I'll let them make their statements.

 

[Plenum7]

HOTYH. As I see it, the placement of the RN would point to a RDI scenario in which the Ramseys were initially attempting to incriminate the housekeeper LHP. I don't have the quotes handy but Patsy reported that the housekeeper would leave notes for her in that location. And, in fact, the housekeeper was expecting some money from the Ramseys and Patsy said that when she first saw the note she thought it was from LHP about that money. In that case, the content of the note was pure theatre. The referemnces to the sff were meant to seem bogus and theatrical. The important parts of the note, in that case, were those elements that indicated an "inside job" - familiarity with JR, the sum being the same as JRs bonus etc. And, sure enough, the housekeeper is the first person the Ramseys pointed to because they believed from the start that it was an "inside job" - much of the content of the RN AND its location at the rear stairs points to an inside job. The "foreign faction" stuff is then just window dressing. That is - to be clear here - in such a scenario PR wrote the note and wanted it to look like it was written by LHP (and co.) but included in the note theatrical elements she imagined LHP (and co) might have included to throw the cops off the trail. Evidently, the Ramseys didn't take the "foreign faction" stuff at all seriously from the start. The location of the note points to an "inside job".

I am prepared to consider IDI scenarios but not random intruder versions. If it was an intruder it was still an "inside job". Everything about this case says it was an inside job. Or at very least an intruder who had studied (scoped) the Ramseys and knew their habits. Or, at least, that is true of the RN crime. There are two crimes here. (1) the murder of the little girl and (2) the ransom note, obstruction of justice - if indeed there was not attempted kidnapping.

An "inside job" might include a scenario of a political/corporate crime, i.e. someone connected with JRs business.

What I find most implausible is any random intruder theory. The perp had knowledge of the Ramseys. The location of the note is another element that says so.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

That is - to be clear here - in such a scenario PR wrote the note and wanted it to look like it was written by LHP (and co.) but included in the note theatrical elements she imagined LHP (and co) might have included to throw the cops off the trail.

Q: Was this crime intended to frame the housekeeper?
A: Yes
Q: What evidence is there that suggests this?
A: The ransom note was found on the rear stairs.
Q: What? Really? Is there anything else?
A: The ransom note talks about things only someone intimate to the family would know.
Q: Like what?
A: JR's bonus.
Q: So PR threw a preloaded scenario at the housekeeper, to make it look like the housekeeper did it and blamed Korea?
A: Yes.
Q: Why wouldn't PR see that the housekeeper would have an airtight alibi just like everyone else had that night, and would be quickly eliminated by the police?
A: Cant think of everything what with all that panic. Besides PR was just an amateur, didnt know what to do.
Q: Doesn't that answer work for any phenomenon.
A::crazy:

 

[claudicici]

hotyh,I'm not talking abut PR planning and executing a crime with a clear head like a criminal would,a real kidnapper would have had thoughts like how do I not get caught ,where do I place the note etc as primary,clear thoughts in his head.
The PR I imagine committing this crime was obsessed with an idea,an idea that primarily made sense to her and only her.She had to do this.The placement and the content of the RN to me are an outcry ,when I say PR said she found it where she found it ,I'm not saying she said this as a strategy to divert LE from thinking she did it herself. She said it because she was convincing herself ,to justify her own actions to HERSELF not to anyone else it would make sense it had to be at a familiar place.Whatever happened to JB made sense,symbolic sense in every detail to PR,whatever was written in the RN made sense to PR because it is a mirror of her mindset and the placement of the RN had to justify it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

hotyh,I'm not talking abut PR planning and executing a crime with a clear head like a criminal would,a real kidnapper would have had thoughts like how do I not get caught ,where do I place the note etc as primary,clear thoughts in his head.
The PR I imagine committing this crime was obsessed with an idea,an idea that primarily made sense to her and only her.She had to do this.The placement and the content of the RN to me are an outcry ,when I say PR said she found it where she found it ,I'm not saying she said this as a strategy to divert LE from thinking she did it herself. She said it because she was convincing herself ,to justify her own actions to HERSELF not to anyone else it would make sense it had to be at a familiar place.Whatever happened to JB made sense,symbolic sense in every detail to PR,whatever was written in the RN made sense to PR because it is a mirror of her mindset and the placement of the RN had to justify it.

You seem like a nice person although somewhat misguided. I'll tell you in the same tone RDI uses that neither JR nor PR had anything to do with the murder. JBR was murdered by a middle-aged asian male.

If the objective was videotape, then it was probably met. If the objective was to steal JBR, then it got botched by JBR herself. If the objective was to gain high publicity for a manuscript or notariety for a crime, then that worked.

Because it involved a seemingly senseless murder of a small child, its really hard to figure out why someone would do that. It always is hard to figure out.

Although the perp likely wanted to see the reaction of local and federal LE to the mystery created by the crime, and wanted the mystery to cause his words which he thought were really important to be published globally. A megalomaniac who springboarded an agenda by creating a high profile murder. And wanted to show how little regard he paid to JBR's life because of a lifestyle.

 

[claudicici]

I think JB was killed by someone that paid extremely high regard to her life ,in their mind,I think JB was killed so she could be a perfect angel,become untouched and innocent forever and be reunited with her mother who is one with her...

see,this does not make sense to you,but it makes perfect sense to me,it clicks in my mind,I can completely understand what happened now.

just like a middle aged asian male makes sense to you but to me it does not make sense at all.

there is one truth out there and I do still think there is a chance that one day we'll know.

 

[MurriFlower]

I think JB was killed by someone that paid extremely high regard to her life ,in their mind,I think JB was killed so she could be a perfect angel,become untouched and innocent forever and be reunited with her mother who is one with her...

see,this does not make sense to you,but it makes perfect sense to me,it clicks in my mind,I can completely understand what happened now.

just like a middle aged asian male makes sense to you but to me it does not make sense at all.

there is one truth out there and I do still think there is a chance that one day we'll know.

There WAS somone else who might fit that description too. McSanta.

 

[claudicici]

...and his wife .....!...but then why would the R's not care for them to get prosecuted?
why would they print pictures of JB on Santa's lap in their book?why would they not give straight forward answers during their interviews?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I think JB was killed by someone that paid extremely high regard to her life ,in their mind,I think JB was killed so she could be a perfect angel,become untouched and innocent forever and be reunited with her mother who is one with her...

my bold

This is fiction without basis in fact. Fiction ought to draw at least something from fact!

Its impossible to reconcile your idea with the crime scene photos of JBR, and the description of her injuries in the autopsy report esp. sexual assault injuries. Sorry but it simply doesn't work.

Its impossible to characterize the murder as anything but brutal. There are other injuries besides the severe head, neck, and vaginal injuries.

 

[claudicici]

It's hard t explain but that's not at all what I mean.
Imagine you see yourself and your little girl as one entity.Imagine you were hurt.
Imagine you were trying to deal with an image you think you have to portray.
You have to be gorgeous,perfect in all areas.
But you know something is wrong.You don't feel pretty.
You go back to that pain ,to that anguish and you act it out on your entity.
Christians believe Jesus died for their sins.He is their image and their savior.
JB could have been PR's personal Jesus.
The facts are PR's words.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The facts are PR's words.

I'm glad you said this. We dont know that PR was involved in the murder, whereas we do know the ransom note author was.

The facts are the ransom note author's words:

foreign faction
disrespect for US
two gentlemen

14 years later there's no argument to invalidate this, but there is an argument that invalidates PR or JR involvement. The argument was clearly explained. A word to the wise...