What was part of the staging,what not?

[madeleine]

The (alleged) placing of the RN looks like staging. Why those stairs? Why laid out like that? Why was it that important that Patsy find it the second she went downstairs? I think a mother would notice her child's absence quickly enough and placing the note on the kitchen table would suffice.

Posted re this on another thread,their behaviour towards Burke that morning tells me they knew exactly there was no threat ,there was no SFF.They were the first ones not to pay attention to the RN.Show me one sentence or one action that shows that they truly believed what was written in the RN.

 

[Sophie]

Similarly, I don't know the full story of the poster, Spade, on FFJ, but you'll find his narrative of his meeting with Smit over there. Interesting stuff...

 

[madeleine]

The 98 Smit/JR LE interview,sometimes it sounds like a rehearsed play.

 

[BBB167893]

Most crimes are as they appear to be.

Yes, and I know how this one appears to me.

Lou Smit said he only had one case in 100's where there was actual staging.

At least he admits that he hasn't got any experience with this level of staging. On our side, you have the CASKU agents. Not much change out of a dollar there, imo.

 

[madeleine]

He actually disagrees with most of the R team players.JR says it was someone known,Archuleta agrees,so does John Douglas....did I miss someone.

 

[Jane Osa]

Sorry, but I don't think a kidnapping 'gone bad' results in: Pineapple snacks, three page ransom notes, strangling & hitting & ligature, plus sexual assault with paint brush (you'd expect much worse unfortunately), plus redressing, plus a blanket over the body, plus leaving said body, plus opening presents, because, oh, gee, maybe there's underwear for girls!, oh, right, plus leaving the body but, make sure that flashlight & batteries are wiped down, .....what else have I missed......

Sorry, if I seem belligerent - I just get very impatient.....and angry on behalf of little Jonbenet.....sick of the rationalizations to exonerate her killers.

But, you know, I'm not omnipresent...just my opinion....

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't buy the "well FW didn't see her because the lights weren't on and JR probably switched them on and that's how he saw her but doesn't recall now if he did or didn't"

I don't think the body was there when FW went down to the basement and I understand why the R's always thought FW is a pain in their @@@@@.He was their friend and he probably immediately felt that something stinks big time.The contradictions,everything.

There are some depositions out there but FW's remained sealed.Does anyone know why?

The problem with this is the livor mortis patterns. They prove she was not moved after being dead after a period of 15-20 minutes had elapsed. If a dead body is moved before livor patterns become fixed, there will be a new pattern in addition to the first pattern. JB had only one livor pattern. There is only one way this theory works. We know she was placed on her back following death and left there for a time, at least until livor was fixed. If she was somewhere other than the wineceller, it is possible that she was not there when FW looked (early that morning) and put there later by JR when he "disappeared" between 10 am and noon. However, by that time, rigor mortis has set in and was advancing. So if she was moved, she was in the exact same position as she was left when she died.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Sorry, but I don't think a kidnapping 'gone bad' results in: Pineapple snacks, three page ransom notes, strangling & hitting & ligature, plus sexual assault with paint brush (you'd expect much worse unfortunately), plus redressing, plus a blanket over the body, plus leaving said body, plus opening presents, because, oh, gee, maybe there's underwear for girls!, oh, right, plus leaving the body but, make sure that flashlight & batteries are wiped down, .....what else have I missed......

Sorry, if I seem belligerent - I just get very impatient.....and angry on behalf of little Jonbenet.....sick of the rationalizations to exonerate her killers.

But, you know, I'm not omnipresent...just my opinion....

Oh good. Just your opinion.

 

[Jane Osa]

Hmmm...just like your signature says!

 

[Sophie]

HOTYH, the last official to talk about the case was Beckner. He said they were going through every possible scenario for JBR's murder. Neither he nor the new DA (who will be heading up any prosecution, not Mary Lacy) appeared to believe that the DNA evidence as it stood was sufficiently compelling to exclude the Ramseys. They presumably accepted that they didn't understand DNA and wanted to hear expert opinions and the results of new tests etc.

Re your point about not knowing what sort of DNA we are talking about (eg. from skin cells or whatever), you are right. However, today you will pick up all sorts of other people's DNA: the guy who used your shopping basket before you at the supermarket will probably have left skins cells on the handle and very probably coughed or sneezed, too. You may have covered your mouth while coughing and leave both skin cells and saliva cells on the basket for the next person to pick up.

I'd also have to say that I'd have expected Lin Wood to be on this like flies around a cow's bum if the DNA was as diverse as you are suggesting.

 

[madeleine]

What were lacy's own words back in 2006 regarding DNA?Hm?No one can be excluded.And I think she DID talk about this case.

 

[Ravyn]

And like I said before til I hear from the new DA what ML said of the DNA clearing the Ramsey's means nothing...

 

[madeleine]

And like I said before til I hear from the new DA what ML said of the DNA clearing the Ramsey's means nothing...

Exactly.It might be convinient for some,what Lacy did but it is going to backfire someday .IMO.I hope she sleeps well and doesn't have conscience issues.
Maybe the new DA won't make the same mistakes,I mean he could have left it like it is.But he didn't.There IS a small chance.

 

[BBB167893]

Hmmm...just like your signature says!

What HOTYH forgets is that it's not just YOUR opinion. It's the opinion of several experts on child abduction and murder.

Tell you folks what: I'll go one better. If HOTYH can show me a case where a child was found murdered in their own home with all of the factors Jane Osa listed, he'll just about put me out of business. Because at least then I'll have a lead I can wrap my head around!

 

[BBB167893]

HOTYH, the last official to talk about the case was Beckner. He said they were going through every possible scenario for JBR's murder.

Thus the worry I was telling him about.

Neither he nor the new DA (who will be heading up any prosecution, not Mary Lacy) appeared to believe that the DNA evidence as it stood was sufficiently compelling to exclude the Ramseys. They presumably accepted that they didn't understand DNA and wanted to hear expert opinions and the results of new tests etc.

The lines are fairly easy to read bewteen, aren't they?

Re your point about not knowing what sort of DNA we are talking about (eg. from skin cells or whatever), you are right. However, today you will pick up all sorts of other people's DNA: the guy who used your shopping basket before you at the supermarket will probably have left skins cells on the handle and very probably coughed or sneezed, too. You may have covered your mouth while coughing and leave both skin cells and saliva cells on the basket for the next person to pick up.

Thus the problem.

I'd also have to say that I'd have expected Lin Wood to be on this like flies around a cow's bum if the DNA was as diverse as you are suggesting.

No doubt.

 

[Roy23]

Lacy sure does get a lot of bad press around here. I understand it to an extent but even a Federal Judge admitted that all the evidence points to an intruder. That happened when Steve Thomas was muzzled by the Ramsey's. They basically put a clown suit on him.

 

[BBB167893]

Lacy sure does get a lot of bad press around here.

All of it well-deserved.

I understand it to an extent

How so?

but even a Federal Judge admitted that all the evidence points to an intruder.

That's not quite accurate. The judge said that all the evidence SHE SAW pointed to an intruder. She never saw the police file.

That happened when Steve Thomas was muzzled by the Ramsey's. They basically put a clown suit on him.

I wasn't aware that either of those happened.

Moreover, we all seem to have gotten off-subject of this thread.

 

[Sophie]

Lacy sure does get a lot of bad press around here. I understand it to an extent but even a Federal Judge admitted that all the evidence points to an intruder. That happened when Steve Thomas was muzzled by the Ramsey's. They basically put a clown suit on him.

Hi Roy,

1) Lacy deserves the bad rep. In her haste to exonerate the Ramseys, she didn't realise that she was basically hobbling the case against many potential defendants, not just the Ramseys. An intruder who fit all the criteria and confessed but whose DNA didn't match probably wouldn't even see court because of her faith in the unknown DNA. She basically handed the defence their reasonable doubt and this may harm the case under future prosecutors.

2) The Federal judge didn't see all the evidence. She admitted this herself.

3) Muzzled him? Er, he can still sell, market and discuss his book and is free to opine on the case (eg. Greta interview him regarding the JMK debacle, clown suit notwithstanding). He certainly doesn't discuss it that much any more but, then, he and his family deserve some peace so you can't really blame him from limiting his comments to the occasional update. He has a life. This isn't being muzzled.

 

[Sophie]

All of it well-deserved.



How so?



That's not quite accurate. The judge said that all the evidence SHE SAW pointed to an intruder. She never saw the police file.



I wasn't aware that either of those happened.

Moreover, we all seem to have gotten off-subject of this thread.

Sorry, Dave: that'll teach me not to read to end of thread before replying

 

[BBB167893]

Sorry, Dave: that'll teach me not to read to end of thread before replying

Heck, the cat's out of the bag now.