What's in this cellar room photo?

[Bobbarita]

And there was some conversations re the boys (Burke and someone called Evan?) and them not flushing the toilet in the basemement.Why do you think LE insisted on that subject?

Did they ever take a DNA sample from this Evan?



7 TRIP DeMUTH: A couple of questions

8 Tom. With Evan Colby, was there ever a time

9 when Burke and Evan were under the porch without

10 their clothes on something, like that?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).

12 TRIP DeMUTH: Can you tell me about

13 that?

14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think

15 Cynthia Savage, my housekeeper-nanny, told me

16 about that one time. They were, there isn't a

17 porch to be under, but I think Evan taught Burke

18 that it was easier to go pee-pee outside than to

19 take the time to go inside to go pee-pee, so he

20 sort of taught him how to go behind the tree.

21 Evan is a little guy.

22 TRIP DeMUTH: How little is little

23 Evan?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I want to say

25 Burke was probably six or seven, Evan was 7 or

0120

1 8, or something like that.


-----------------

10 TRIP DEMUTH: Who used that bathroom?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: The boys. You know, Burke and

12 Evan were down there playing with the trains. They

13 would go in there and use it.

14 TRIP DEMUTH: What do you mean that they had

15 not flushed that toilet, what do you mean by that?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think someone had gone

17 to the potty and hadn't flushed it. It was there for

18 several days.

19 TOM HANEY: Are we talking urine?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It was just

21 reported to me. It was, mom, the bathroom is pretty

22 yucky, and Linda took care of it is the way I think it

23 went.

24 TRIP DEMUTH: How common was it for Evan and

25 Burke to not flush?

0410

1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Burke is pretty well

2 trained, because that is one of my big pet peeves, but

3 Evan I don't know about.

4 TRIP DEMUTH: What does that mean, Patsy,

5 when you say you don't know about?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know whether he

7 flushes regularly.

8 TRIP DEMUTH: That could imply, I don't know

9 about him because he doesn't flush, or I wanted to

10 clear that up.

11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I would believe

12 it was Evan that used it and didn't flush rather than

13 my son. I would like to believe that.

14 TRIP DEMUTH: Was it a more than one-time

15 occasion in this bathroom down there?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember that one.

17 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that? It doesn't have

18 to be precise, I mean how long before Christmas?

19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I don't know

20 exactly. I just remember it happening.

21 TRIP DEMUTH: Right before Christmas?

22 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't remember. I just

23 remember the event that there was a dirty bathroom bowl

24 and obviously the boys were down there using it and not

25 flushing.

0411

1 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know, did Linda clean it

2 up, do you know?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: I -- I am sure she did, but I

4 didn't go down there and double check it.

In answer to your question I think LE was considering that evidence may have been flushed down the toilet.

 

[DeeDee249]

I had seen on the evidence lists that LE had taken "water from toilet". I assumed they took it to get DNA evidence from any urine or feces there. I had also read that some of the toilets were "taken apart" to look for things that light have been flushed. Don't know exactly what was done, though, or how much the fixtures were disassembled.

 

[Ames]

Except the tape we are looking at is grey on both sides.

I think you are mistaken about this tape and the tape on her mouth. They were different according to JR (who was there and removed the tape), because he commented on it when shown the grey tape. BPD were determined to find evidence against them, so they used their imagination to find the tape and the means by which the Rs obtained it, not unlike what happens here.

There IS a stain on the duct tape that is pictured in the crime scene photo...I wonder what it is.

 

[Ames]

rashomon,

No problem, for myself it was the status of the barbie nightgown that did it. I intuitively knew it was no accident that it was located in the wine-cellar. As you know others had alternative explanations such as static cling etc. I reckon the white blanket is included to give the impression that JonBenet has been scooped from her bed wrapped in the blanket and taken down to the basement.

Nice to see you posting again, I have always enjoyed your comments. Just think what else might be lurking in as yet unexamined interviews. The barbie doll which I have great difficulty visualising, but appears to be in the bottom right of the gown. Please correct me if I am mistaken. The resolution on those crime-scene photos will have been greater, allowing Patsy to immediately identify the doll. One wonders with Patsy's immediacy, if the doll is meant as staging, since ramnesia is normally the order of the day?


This appears to be the case, and most likely, a last minute decision one that probably saved them from a court appearance!


No, because that assumes they were reasonably rational. How would they know that something they tossed in might not come back to haunt them. Proof that it was not an irrational pot pourri designed to confuse the sharpest intellect lies in the cleaning of the flashlight. Someone knew that if the flashlight could be linked to the crime-scene and that their prints or dna was on the flashlight then all the staging in the world was of no value. Then there is the pineapple snack, which as per their version they have to deny.

One thing I am certain of is that someone reverted from a sexual assault scenario to a kidnap scenario. Now lets assume this is correct then under a sexual assault scenario the parents would become prime suspects, and likely be detained. Under a kidnap scenario the parents may avoid scrutiny and gain time to evade arrest and flee the crime-scene. As per the FBI corporate protocol for employee kidnap. Who knows what transpired in the early hours with calls being made to whichever agency?

Just what is a barbie doll doing underneath a bloodstained barbie-nightgown in a wine-cellar where an intruder is assumed to have sexually assaulted JonBenet, and where are her size-6 underwear?

.

I was one of the ones that had thought it arrived there via static cling...while taking the white blanket from the dryer. Because John said, in one of his interviews...when shown the Barbie nightgown...."that's not supposed to be there". I took that to mean, that neither HE nor Patsy PUT it there...so how did it get there? BUT...if there was blood on it....that changes my opinion.

 

[MurriFlower]

I can't be sure about that. I see only one side of the tape. I don't feel LE imagined finding the tape in the two stores. And as they had it tested against the tape taken from JB, I doubt that was imagined either. I realize you put a lot of credence into what JR and Patsy SAY. I don't, and i feel most RDI don't either.

You see, I went to quite a lot of trouble to try to demonstrate that the tape WAS grey on both sides, but you have chosen to ignore that, as I think you choose to ignore anything contrary to your own opinion.

I put credence into what the Rs say for the simple reason that I do not believe they had any involvement in their daughter's death, so they therefore had no reason to lie.

You, on the other hand, because you believe they DID IT, believe nothing (unless it suits your purposes) of what they said.

I'm also very suspicious of the BPD's findings, because I think there were those who were prepared (for reasons of their own) to do whatever it took to convict them. Finding tape in stores in Boulder and then finding charges for the amount the tape costs proves nothing, in fact, in any other circumstances, it would not even warrant comment, let alone become some kind of 'evidence'!

Obviously the picture of the grey tape that maddy posted from another forum was a different size, colour and type from that JBR's father described removing from her mouth. How does this affect RDI? Well, if they stop denying it and accept that there was grey tape and there was black tape, then there was obviously two (or more) IDI involved, who just happened to have a different roll of tape each. Nothing unusual about this I suppose for and IDI, but REALLY a BIG problem for RDI. Why? -- because there was there not only ONE type of tape not sourced to the R's, but there was TWO types!! BOTH of these have to be "accounted for".

So rather than account for them, RDI chooses to just deny!!!

 

[rashomon]

rashomon,

No problem, for myself it was the status of the barbie nightgown that did it. I intuitively knew it was no accident that it was located in the wine-cellar. As you know others had alternative explanations such as static cling etc. I reckon the white blanket is included to give the impression that JonBenet has been scooped from her bed wrapped in the blanket and taken down to the basement.

UKGuy,

Yes, I well recall that this has always been your position: that the nightgown had been put there on purpose.

I reckon the white blanket is included to give the impression that JonBenet has been scooped from her bed wrapped in the blanket and taken down to the basement.

I'm of the same opinion.

Nice to see you posting again, I have always enjoyed your comments.

Thanks, UKGuy. Ditto from me. I have always been interested in your theory as to what triggered the fatal sequence of events on that tragic night, and in your analysis of the Ramseys' subsequent staging to misdirect LE.

Just think what else might be lurking in as yet unexamined interviews. The barbie doll which I have great difficulty visualising, but appears to be in the bottom right of the gown.

I looked at it, and too think I can see something there which could be the blonde head of a Barbie doll.

Please correct me if I am mistaken. The resolution on those crime-scene photos will have been greater, allowing Patsy to immediately identify the doll. One wonders with Patsy's immediacy, if the doll is meant as staging, since ramnesia is normally the order of the day?

If the doll was part of the staged scene - what do you think the stager wanted to accomplish by putting it there?

No, because that assumes they were reasonably rational. How would they know that something they tossed in might not come back to haunt them.

I think they were in position where they simply had to take that risk.
For they had only the alternative either to confess or to cover it up. There was no in-between. It was all or nothing.
They obviously did try to remove incriminating evidence, but also made mistakes (as stagers often do, especially in in non-planned crimes where they have neither the time nor the frame of mind to think everything through rationally).

Proof that it was not an irrational pot pourri designed to confuse the sharpest intellect lies in the cleaning of the flashlight. Someone knew that if the flashlight could be linked to the crime-scene and that their prints or dna was on the flashlight then all the staging in the world was of no value.

But they could also have opted for simply putting the flashlight back in the drawer where they had taken it from. Since it was theirs, finding their prints and DNA on it would be expected.
In one of the interviews, Pasty even admitted (more or less) that the flashlight did belong to them - at least she said it looked like one they had, and also said where it was normally kept: in a drawer near the the spiral stairs. (She was shown a crime scene picture of this open and empty drawer).

UKGuy, what do you think they used the flashlight for? I believe it was used by the Ramseys illuminate the kitchen area to write the ransom note because they did not want to put the full lights on. And didn't a neighbor notice flickering light in that area some time after midnight?

Then there is the pineapple snack, which as per their version they have to deny.

They had deny that, yes. Sleeping people can't eat, and since they told LE that JonBenet had alredy been asleep when they arrived home, they had no choice but to stick to that lie. I can't understand why none of interviewers used this unique opportunity to snap the trap shut by directly confronting the Ramseys with Burke's testimony contradicting their own version. For Burke said JonBenet had been awake when they got home and walked up the stairs.

Just what is a barbie doll doing underneath a bloodstained barbie-nightgown in a wine-cellar where an intruder is assumed to have sexually assaulted JonBenet, and where are her size-6 underwear?

I don't recall info about the barbie-nightgown being bloodstained.
Can you direct me to the source where it says that?

 

[Ames]

<<SNIPPED FOR LENGTH>>>
I don't recall info about the barbie-nightgown being bloodstained.
Can you direct me to the source where it says that?

LAB CLASS XX???-2136(?)-4153(?) SECTION: DNA TESTING
AGENCY(?) NAME &#8211; CD0878136 &#8211; F2 ACBLDER(?)

EXTRACTED(?) BY: blacked out EXTRACTION DATE: 123196(?)
ABSTRACT(X) AFA(?) ?/? ???
RAMSEY, PATSY W/F
RAMSEY, JOHN W/M
RAMSEY, JONBENET W/F

Two lines BLACKED OUT
DATE COMPLETED/JANUARY 13, 1997
EXTRACT(?) DESCRIPTION
#5A,5B# (?) Bloodstains from shirt
#7 Bloodstains from panties
#14B Bloodstain ????? from JonBenet Ramsey
#14J DNA? Or Swab? with Saliva????
#14L, #14M Right and Left hand fingernails from JonBenet Ramsey
#15A, #15B Samples from tape
Bloodstains from white blanket
#17A, #17C Bloodstains from nightgown??
#13A, #13B Semen ??? stain from black blanket
Bloodstain Standard from John Andrew Ramsey


---------------------------------------------

I had never heard anything about bloodstains on the Barbie nightgown either Rash, until someone posted this!

 

[UKGuy]

LAB CLASS XX???-2136(?)-4153(?) SECTION: DNA TESTING
AGENCY(?) NAME – CD0878136 – F2 ACBLDER(?)

EXTRACTED(?) BY: blacked out EXTRACTION DATE: 123196(?)
ABSTRACT(X) AFA(?) ?/? ???
RAMSEY, PATSY W/F
RAMSEY, JOHN W/M
RAMSEY, JONBENET W/F

Two lines BLACKED OUT
DATE COMPLETED/JANUARY 13, 1997
EXTRACT(?) DESCRIPTION
#5A,5B# (?) Bloodstains from shirt
#7 Bloodstains from panties
#14B Bloodstain ????? from JonBenet Ramsey
#14J DNA? Or Swab? with Saliva????
#14L, #14M Right and Left hand fingernails from JonBenet Ramsey
#15A, #15B Samples from tape
Bloodstains from white blanket
#17A, #17C Bloodstains from nightgown??
#13A, #13B Semen ??? stain from black blanket
Bloodstain Standard from John Andrew Ramsey


---------------------------------------------

I had never heard anything about bloodstains on the Barbie nightgown either Rash, until someone posted this!

Ames,
Thanks, its a Screen Capture of the DNA lab report shown on the 48 Hours program. the image is floating about somewhere, maybe I should have it since its a crucial piece of evidence. I flagged the blood-stained barbie nightgown up, since I have never accepted it arrived in the basement accidentally.

.

 

[SunnieRN]

You see, I went to quite a lot of trouble to try to demonstrate that the tape WAS grey on both sides, but you have chosen to ignore that, as I think you choose to ignore anything contrary to your own opinion.

I put credence into what the Rs say for the simple reason that I do not believe they had any involvement in their daughter's death, so they therefore had no reason to lie.

You, on the other hand, because you believe they DID IT, believe nothing (unless it suits your purposes) of what they said.

I'm also very suspicious of the BPD's findings, because I think there were those who were prepared (for reasons of their own) to do whatever it took to convict them. Finding tape in stores in Boulder and then finding charges for the amount the tape costs proves nothing, in fact, in any other circumstances, it would not even warrant comment, let alone become some kind of 'evidence'!

Obviously the picture of the grey tape that maddy posted from another forum was a different size, colour and type from that JBR's father described removing from her mouth. How does this affect RDI? Well, if they stop denying it and accept that there was grey tape and there was black tape, then there was obviously two (or more) IDI involved, who just happened to have a different roll of tape each. Nothing unusual about this I suppose for and IDI, but REALLY a BIG problem for RDI. Why? -- because there was there not only ONE type of tape not sourced to the R's, but there was TWO types!! BOTH of these have to be "accounted for".

So rather than account for them, RDI chooses to just deny!!!

In MHO, the BPD did a piss poor job of looking for ANY evidence, let alone the tape. What was in Johns golf bag that he had to have so soon after Jon Benets death? Were the suitcases packed by the doors, ready for the trip, ever checked? When John said the Barbie gown wasn't supposed to be there, to me that was a clue that they were going to remove it and forgot. Maybe it was supposed to be placed where the size 6 underwear was, in one of the suitcases. Remember, the tape was matched by the company who made it, to the store in Boulder where the Ramseys shopped. The BPD couldn't have made that part up, it's too easy to disprove.

To me the staging was well thought out. Even though it threw suspicion on the Ramseys, it also left enough holes to put doubt in peoples minds. They lucked upon the perfect amount of suspicion and lack of proof. The Ramseys are not/were not dumb people, but they also had a lot of luck on their side.

As for the flashlight, if there was IDI, it would have been taken out of the house, if it had been theirs. The Ramseys, IMHO, messed up big time by taking ALL fingerprints off the outside and batteries. IDI having spent, supposedly HOURS in the Ramsey house, would have either worn gloves, or left finger prints everywhere, not wiped down a flashlight and left everything else untouched, with intact Ramsy fingerprints.

I honestly do not believe that the flashlight was used to hit JB. I think it was a red herring. I think the weapon was the bat (most likely PR's from her womens softball league (which was why Burke didn't recognize it as his.).

And that the time John disappeared is when it was placed outside and JB was moved to the wine celler. I wonder how they could possibly say JB was not moved after her death, when she had been moved by both JR and the officer at the scene after being taken from the basement. Makes no sense whatsoever to me. Now, I would believe that she had both blenkets present when she was killed, but I really don't believe that John could have seen her with no lights on, as Fleet White did not. I think FW thought about this also.

Please forgive my rambling, but believe it or not, this is following a long time thinking about the staging of JB. The only reason in my mind for parents to do something so elaborate, is to protect another family member. One who tried to tell the truth when this all started, but was stopped from doing so.

 

[Ames]

Ames,
Thanks, its a Screen Capture of the DNA lab report shown on the 48 Hours program. the image is floating about somewhere, maybe I should have it since its a crucial piece of evidence. I flagged the blood-stained barbie nightgown up, since I have never accepted it arrived in the basement accidentally.

.

I wonder why it says "Bloodstains from nightgown???" What's with the question marks? Almost like the DNA lab report is questioning whether or not it is actually bloodstains or not. Kinda looks like a DNA Lab would know the difference between bloodstains, and say....Kool-Aid stains.

 

[otg]

I wonder why it says "Bloodstains from nightgown???" What's with the question marks? Almost like the DNA lab report is questioning whether or not it is actually bloodstains or not. Kinda looks like a DNA Lab would know the difference between bloodstains, and say....Kool-Aid stains.

Just a guess here, but could it be that the stains were lightly colored but suspected to have blood in them, as in blood mixed with other bodily fluids (urine, saliva, etc.)?
.

 

[joeskidbeck]

It has been proven that portraits and artwork on the Ramsey's walls had duct tape attached on the back. There is also the question of whether or not JB's American Girl doll had duct tape (and cord) as to the recommendations of the manufacturer. How can you say that ANY duct tape cannot be sourced to the Ramseys? I don't think the Ramseys were stupid people by any means and it would have taken a very stupid person to have kept that tape in their home. Please don't ask me how they got it out because you know as well as I do that Burke and Pam Paugh carried out everything the Ramseys needed to get rid of. This tape argument is flimsy at best and proves nothing,

 

[SunnieRN]

I also read that some of the boxes in the cellar had duct tape on them. Was the Ramseys car, or trunks ever checked? What about the garage? On the 23rd wasn't Patsy's Dad there? For the party?

I would like to know where he was and what he was doing when 911 was called.

 

[Harley]

Were the Ramsey's searched when they left the house that day, somehow I doubt it. It was winter so they could have taken out lots of stuff under their clothes.

 

[UKGuy]

I wonder why it says "Bloodstains from nightgown???" What's with the question marks? Almost like the DNA lab report is questioning whether or not it is actually bloodstains or not. Kinda looks like a DNA Lab would know the difference between bloodstains, and say....Kool-Aid stains.

Ames,

Not sure about that. Might be its a grammatical error e.g. plural bloodstains, but the photographs have only one subject. Seems like there are three photographs.

Blood on the barbie nightgown, a barbie doll present, and JonBenet wearing her day clothes, looks like staging not quite completed?

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

Yes, I well recall that this has always been your position: that the nightgown had been put there on purpose.

I'm of the same opinion.

Thanks, UKGuy. Ditto from me. I have always been interested in your theory as to what triggered the fatal sequence of events on that tragic night, and in your analysis of the Ramseys' subsequent staging to misdirect LE.
I looked at it, and too think I can see something there which could be the blonde head of a Barbie doll.

If the doll was part of the staged scene - what do you think the stager wanted to accomplish by putting it there?


I think they were in position where they simply had to take that risk.
For they had only the alternative either to confess or to cover it up. There was no in-between. It was all or nothing.
They obviously did try to remove incriminating evidence, but also made mistakes (as stagers often do, especially in in non-planned crimes where they have neither the time nor the frame of mind to think everything through rationally).


But they could also have opted for simply putting the flashlight back in the drawer where they had taken it from. Since it was theirs, finding their prints and DNA on it would be expected.
In one of the interviews, Pasty even admitted (more or less) that the flashlight did belong to them - at least she said it looked like one they had, and also said where it was normally kept: in a drawer near the the spiral stairs. (She was shown a crime scene picture of this open and empty drawer).

UKGuy, what do you think they used the flashlight for? I believe it was used by the Ramseys illuminate the kitchen area to write the ransom note because they did not want to put the full lights on. And didn't a neighbor notice flickering light in that area some time after midnight?


They had deny that, yes. Sleeping people can't eat, and since they told LE that JonBenet had alredy been asleep when they arrived home, they had no choice but to stick to that lie. I can't understand why none of interviewers used this unique opportunity to snap the trap shut by directly confronting the Ramseys with Burke's testimony contradicting their own version. For Burke said JonBenet had been awake when they got home and walked up the stairs.


I don't recall info about the barbie-nightgown being bloodstained.
Can you direct me to the source where it says that?

rashomon,

Thanks, UKGuy. Ditto from me. I have always been interested in your theory as to what triggered the fatal sequence of events on that tragic night, and in your analysis of the Ramseys' subsequent staging to misdirect LE.

I've revised some aspects of my theory to incorporate the new evidence. I'm fairly confident that JonBenet's death is a sexually motivated homicide. That is there was no accident!

If the doll was part of the staged scene - what do you think the stager wanted to accomplish by putting it there?

That I have not worked out yet, also it may not be staging and form a part of the original crime-scene.

I think they were in position where they simply had to take that risk.

You are probably more correct than me on this issue.

UKGuy, what do you think they used the flashlight for? I believe it was used by the Ramseys illuminate the kitchen area to write the ransom note because they did not want to put the full lights on. And didn't a neighbor notice flickering light in that area some time after midnight?

I have a conspiracy theory that incorporates the flashlight, and has more than one person abusing JonBenet. In my RDI I reckon the flashlight was used to whack JonBenet on the head. Thats why it was cleaned e.g. to remove JonBenet's dna. Whomever cleaned it is the killer, thats why it was so efficiently, almost paranoically, wiped clean. Another theory has the R's recieving outside help, and they used the flashlight? All these scenarios require the cleaning of the flashlight. Your explanation is consistent with the evidence, particularly the neighbor noticing a flickering light. But then all your remarks about it not requiring to be cleaned in my explanation also apply to your ransom note illumination theory?

I don't recall info about the barbie-nightgown being bloodstained.

Ames posted the relevant information. I'll find the image since I want it to flesh out my RDI theory.

The bloodstained barbie nightgown along with a barbie doll being present in the wine-cellar changes the direction of my RDI totally. Its a game-changer!


.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I also read that some of the boxes in the cellar had duct tape on them. Was the Ramseys car, or trunks ever checked? What about the garage? On the 23rd wasn't Patsy's Dad there? For the party?

I would like to know where he was and what he was doing when 911 was called.

I'm with you on grandpa Paugh. Was he at the party? I think there is a lot we could learn from that 911 call. Too bad it was never released (that I know of, anyway).
Nedra said that Don had flown home on Christmas Eve to be with her, but I don't know that I believe that. I think they would all say anything to cast suspicion elsewhere.
Does anyone know if it was ever verified that Don flew home on the 24th?

 

[UKGuy]

Just a guess here, but could it be that the stains were lightly colored but suspected to have blood in them, as in blood mixed with other bodily fluids (urine, saliva, etc.)?
.

otg,

The bloodstains were dna sequenced. So I guess they are blood-stains.

 

[UKGuy]

I'm with you on grandpa Paugh. Was he at the party? I think there is a lot we could learn from that 911 call. Too bad it was never released (that I know of, anyway).
Nedra said that Don had flown home on Christmas Eve to be with her, but I don't know that I believe that. I think they would all say anything to cast suspicion elsewhere.
Does anyone know if it was ever verified that Don flew home on the 24th?

joeskidbeck,

mmm, well I'll just say Don Paugh and flashlight.


.

 

[UKGuy]

In MHO, the BPD did a piss poor job of looking for ANY evidence, let alone the tape. What was in Johns golf bag that he had to have so soon after Jon Benets death? Were the suitcases packed by the doors, ready for the trip, ever checked? When John said the Barbie gown wasn't supposed to be there, to me that was a clue that they were going to remove it and forgot. Maybe it was supposed to be placed where the size 6 underwear was, in one of the suitcases. Remember, the tape was matched by the company who made it, to the store in Boulder where the Ramseys shopped. The BPD couldn't have made that part up, it's too easy to disprove.

To me the staging was well thought out. Even though it threw suspicion on the Ramseys, it also left enough holes to put doubt in peoples minds. They lucked upon the perfect amount of suspicion and lack of proof. The Ramseys are not/were not dumb people, but they also had a lot of luck on their side.

As for the flashlight, if there was IDI, it would have been taken out of the house, if it had been theirs. The Ramseys, IMHO, messed up big time by taking ALL fingerprints off the outside and batteries. IDI having spent, supposedly HOURS in the Ramsey house, would have either worn gloves, or left finger prints everywhere, not wiped down a flashlight and left everything else untouched, with intact Ramsy fingerprints.

I honestly do not believe that the flashlight was used to hit JB. I think it was a red herring. I think the weapon was the bat (most likely PR's from her womens softball league (which was why Burke didn't recognize it as his.).

And that the time John disappeared is when it was placed outside and JB was moved to the wine celler. I wonder how they could possibly say JB was not moved after her death, when she had been moved by both JR and the officer at the scene after being taken from the basement. Makes no sense whatsoever to me. Now, I would believe that she had both blenkets present when she was killed, but I really don't believe that John could have seen her with no lights on, as Fleet White did not. I think FW thought about this also.

Please forgive my rambling, but believe it or not, this is following a long time thinking about the staging of JB. The only reason in my mind for parents to do something so elaborate, is to protect another family member. One who tried to tell the truth when this all started, but was stopped from doing so.

SunnieRN,

When John said the Barbie gown wasn't supposed to be there, to me that was a clue that they were going to remove it and forgot. Maybe it was supposed to be placed where the size 6 underwear was, in one of the suitcases.

Yes I agree with you. John slipped up here, not only is it not meant to be there, he did not know it was there. Otherwise he would ask why is that there? I'll float this here since its been part of another RDI I have: was it JR in a drug induced rage who killed JonBenet, but Patsy who inprovised and staged the wine-cellar crime-scene, making the mistakes that a clear-headed JR would not?

.