Where Precisely Do You Think Caylee Died?

[mikeysmommom]

You have LE's cause of death??? Do share.

IMO watching forensics files and CSI,do not give the needed tools to be a crime solver.

 

[SusanNV]

Sorry if this has been answered: I did not remeber hearing about scratches on the trunk - Do you have a link to that?

I had missed/forgotten this part of evidence too. I went web surfing just now and only found a few mentions, and none really describe inside or outside. Here is one: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,410865,00.html

 

[Pink Panther]

I'm not sure it matters so much where (which room) but I do think that she died in the house and that KC transported her outside. First in the corner near the pool and then to the back right corner behind the playhouse. I don't believe that she tried to bury her (impossible and stupid to do - with her OCD parents I'm sure she knew they'd notice something - also, I do believe that she's so chit-azzed lazy that she wouldn't even try). I actually believe that she left Caylee there for two (yes TWO) days...It was raining, her parents were working and I think she kind of freaked out about what to do...Until she decided to wrap her up, put her in the trunk and then toss over the curb on Suburban.

ETA - Notions of KC digging seem completely impossible to me!

MOO

 

[Rumpole]

I'm of a similar general opinion but.....
I think she killed her in the house. I have gone for KC room, but I agree could be anywhere. I think her first thought was to fake an accident and she placed the body near the pool (Cadaver dog hit) and perhaps put the ladder on the pool and may have even got as far as putting dead Caylee in the pool? She could see that did not look right for whatever reason and she put the body in the trunk. Came back to dipose of body or stage some other accident. Borrowed the spade with a view to burying, but didn't get very far. Eventually wrapped and bagged the body and replaced in trunk. Dumped body about then or a few days later after gas can incident.

 

[Jay D]

I have been following this thread with interest. It is indeed a difficult question, given the limited facts that we have, so I have not voted yet. A few theories that I have to give some thought to:
1. Casey killed Caylee in her bedroom, which is why she slept in Cindy's room for 10 days straight......
Well, the reasoning that KC had to sleep in Cindy's room came from Cindy. I think it had little to do with KC's sorrow, and a lot to do with Cindy doing everything she could to keep KC isolated from Female Body Guard. She would be especially on guard at night, when KC might talk in her sleep or otherwise ramble on in FBG's presence. I don't consider KC sleeping in Cindy's room as any sign of guilt on KC's behalf.

2. Caylee accidently drowned, as alluded to by the ladder not being stored properly.......Again I have to consider the source of that story. I think it was George that confided to LE that Cindy called him and dressed him down about the ladder and the gate. Why was George volunteering this interview and the limited info he gave? After studying the interview, it was my feeling that he was testing LE to learn what LE knew, so that he could learn how to respond accordingly. Also I think he wanted to nudge LE thinking a bit.

Cindy and George, by most everyones way of thinking, knew Caylee was gone. They couldn't bring themselves to accept that Casey was purposely responsible. The most innocent scenario that they could possibly hope for was accidental drowning. They surely wanted to convince themselves of that, along with LE and Casey. I felt as I watched the interviews, that they were leading Casey to go with the accidental drowning scenario. I think they made a show of moving plants and boxes to re-enforce their theory.

Was it true? I dunno, but the source of the possibility was George and Cindy, so I have to take that into account. If the duct tape around the head rumor is true, I'd discount accidental drowning.

3. Casey killed Caylee in the car in a fit of rage after a huge fight late on the 15th......Was there a huge fight? Including choking? What are the sources? Mark F reported that neighbors of the A's told him of a loud verbal exchange in the A's front yard, but they were uncertain of the date. Casey told Lee who told JG about a fight on the 15th, which involved choking. Can we believe KC's version?

There wasn't a choice to vote for "Caylee fell off of the balcony at Tony's apartment". Good, 'cause even though LP pushed that theory for a while, I don't think so.

H Poirot said we could change our mind later, so I now vote for the car, and more specifically the cabin, not the trunk. I'm not very certain of my vote though. I wouldn't bet a cup of coffee on it.

 

[CentralFLMama]

I believe Casey intentionally killed Caylee and that there were a lot of dysfunctional relationships in that home. But I think there is way too much reading into that picture of Caylee crying. I have several pictures of my various kids crying or having a tantrum. I think its a stretch to say that picture is indicative of anything at all.

 

[Rumpole]

Jay D
Well reasoned answer and cautious. I guess most on WS tend to gamble with limited HARD facts. I'd be cautious if I were say part of the jury and there were serious consequences to my "guesses".

 

[Hot Dogs]

...placed the body near the pool (Cadaver dog hit)...

I've read about the dog(s) alerting near the pool. Did that info come from CSI or CA, or where?

 

[Rumpole]

I've read about the dog(s) alerting near the pool. Did that info come from CSI or CA, or where?

I got it from that VERY reliable source..... OTR with Greta!!

CA sort of confirmed, but as usual went off in a spin. I think the dogs hit several places and I am bringing the subject up in the hopes that there might be some official word?
Does anybody know if it is mentioned in first doc dump. I can not face going thru the lot again to look.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I've had a great interest in the dogs alerting in the backyard since this whole thing began. I read through the 1st doc dump and more. I don't recall any details presented on where the dogs alerted in the backyard. Early media reports talked about more than one place in the yard. Helicopter shots show CSI working in the corner.

 

[Rumpole]

I've had a great interest in the dogs alerting in the backyard since this whole thing began. I read through the 1st doc dump and more. I don't recall any details presented on where the dogs alerted in the backyard. Early media reports talked about more than one place in the yard. Helicopter shots show CSI working in the corner.

CA definately told Greta: Playhouse and sand box. Started to say the corner near the pool but lanched into her explanation of her and GA digging up a plant and moving it. That did confirm that LE dug there, and I have seen photos of LE digging in far corner above playhouse. CA said they lifted the playhouse and removed its paver base and dug underneath. I want to mark such key locations on the property map.

 

[seekjustice]

I have been following this thread with interest. It is indeed a difficult question, given the limited facts that we have, so I have not voted yet. A few theories that I have to give some thought to:
1. Casey killed Caylee in her bedroom, which is why she slept in Cindy's room for 10 days straight......
Well, the reasoning that KC had to sleep in Cindy's room came from Cindy. I think it had little to do with KC's sorrow, and a lot to do with Cindy doing everything she could to keep KC isolated from Female Body Guard. She would be especially on guard at night, when KC might talk in her sleep or otherwise ramble on in FBG's presence. I don't consider KC sleeping in Cindy's room as any sign of guilt on KC's behalf.

2. Caylee accidently drowned, as alluded to by the ladder not being stored properly.......Again I have to consider the source of that story. I think it was George that confided to LE that Cindy called him and dressed him down about the ladder and the gate. Why was George volunteering this interview and the limited info he gave? After studying the interview, it was my feeling that he was testing LE to learn what LE knew, so that he could learn how to respond accordingly. Also I think he wanted to nudge LE thinking a bit.

Cindy and George, by most everyones way of thinking, knew Caylee was gone. They couldn't bring themselves to accept that Casey was purposely responsible. The most innocent scenario that they could possibly hope for was accidental drowning. They surely wanted to convince themselves of that, along with LE and Casey. I felt as I watched the interviews, that they were leading Casey to go with the accidental drowning scenario. I think they made a show of moving plants and boxes to re-enforce their theory.

Was it true? I dunno, but the source of the possibility was George and Cindy, so I have to take that into account. If the duct tape around the head rumor is true, I'd discount accidental drowning.

3. Casey killed Caylee in the car in a fit of rage after a huge fight late on the 15th......Was there a huge fight? Including choking? What are the sources? Mark F reported that neighbors of the A's told him of a loud verbal exchange in the A's front yard, but they were uncertain of the date. Casey told Lee who told JG about a fight on the 15th, which involved choking. Can we believe KC's version?

There wasn't a choice to vote for "Caylee fell off of the balcony at Tony's apartment". Good, 'cause even though LP pushed that theory for a while, I don't think so.

H Poirot said we could change our mind later, so I now vote for the car, and more specifically the cabin, not the trunk. I'm not very certain of my vote though. I wouldn't bet a cup of coffee on it.

Excellent Post!
I completely agree with #2. I believe all the talk of the pool and ladder, etc. was meant to open a door for Casey and perhaps give G & C a small sense of relief in believing their daughter was not capable of murder. While I believe it was no accident....why Casey never chose to take this escape is beyond me.
But to the point of the thread....While I understand it may not be wise at this point to choose this scenario based on the researched pings and computer activity of the 16th I cannot help but lean heavily to the theory of death late night on the 15th. As to where....I will say the car (not the trunk) but I'm also gonna go a bit farther to say this possibly occured near the location of the remains. Casey left in a rage with Caylee, but had no paticualr place to go, so she drove to the closest secluded place she knew of...near the school (dead end)....Caylee most likely screaming and upset Casey pulls over to quiet her with the duct tape....her rage continuing to escalate I believe she smothers her to quiet Caylee once and for all. Of course at this point who really knows, hoping new docs will shed some more light here. Search warrant will most likely be very telling when it comes to WHERE Caylee died.

 

[Hot Dogs]

CA definately told Greta: Playhouse and sand box.

Yes, we can see photos of CSI working there and the colored flags.

Started to say the corner near the pool but lanched into her explanation of her and GA digging up a plant and moving it. That did confirm that LE dug there,

It is confirmed that CSI was digging next to the pool?

and I have seen photos of LE digging in far corner above playhouse. CA said they lifted the playhouse and removed its paver base and dug underneath. I want to mark such key locations on the property map

.

Yes, I saw your map in the other thread. I have comments on it in relation to CSI examinations. Should I do it here, or in the house thread?

 

[Hot Dogs]

I'm happy with here.

CA definately said LE examined the area near the pool (see map) because she and GA had left fresh digging there from week? ago.

I'm sorry, it was actually Steve2010's map that I was referring to. Anyway, do we have good reason to believe CA's comments on where CSI showed interest? I mean, she said some things about the dogs that didn't make sense or were obfuscating.

 

[Hot Dogs]

This is the map I was talking about...

 

[Rumpole]

I'm sorry, it was actually Steve2010's map that I was referring to. Anyway, do we have good reason to believe CA's comments on where CSI showed interest? I mean, she said some things about the dogs that didn't make sense or were obfuscating.

Steve2010's map is the one I am using. We combined efforts in the end.

I agree caution is needed with ALL Anthony evidence, but LE reports early on were of several hits by the dogs in the back yard, as well as the car. Call me a fool, but I believed CA description of the playhouse and sandbox. The rest I throw out there hoping for some more snippets of confirmation.

PS Steve2010 has done a very slightly updated version. I have penciled in a few spots. Quite prepared to revise.

 

[Hot Dogs]

CSI showed interest in the spot I marked. I believe they were digging there.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Back in August, the Orlando Sentinel had 4-5 helicopter photos of CSI working in the backyard. Now they only show two of these. I downloaded both of these yesterday. You will see CSI pointing to this spot in the bamboo. In one photo that is now gone, two female CSI were on their hands and knees with their faces looking at this spot.

 

[Rumpole]

CSI showed interest in the spot I marked. I believe they were digging there.

OK
I guess we are getting a bit off topic (My fault) If anybody has any more info perhaps the property plan thread will be better?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77680&page=23

 

[LinasK]

Excellent Post!
I completely agree with #2. I believe all the talk of the pool and ladder, etc. was meant to open a door for Casey and perhaps give G & C a small sense of relief in believing their daughter was not capable of murder. While I believe it was no accident....why Casey never chose to take this escape is beyond me.
But to the point of the thread....While I understand it may not be wise at this point to choose this scenario based on the researched pings and computer activity of the 16th I cannot help but lean heavily to the theory of death late night on the 15th. As to where....I will say the car (not the trunk) but I'm also gonna go a bit farther to say this possibly occured near the location of the remains. Casey left in a rage with Caylee, but had no paticualr place to go, so she drove to the closest secluded place she knew of...near the school (dead end)....Caylee most likely screaming and upset Casey pulls over to quiet her with the duct tape....her rage continuing to escalate I believe she smothers her to quiet Caylee once and for all. Of course at this point who really knows, hoping new docs will shed some more light here. Search warrant will most likely be very telling when it comes to WHERE Caylee died.

You know, you may be onto something, because another poster dreamed that Casey drove Caylee somewhere, and one who visited the site where Caylee was found reported it was her throat that hurt, not a "punched in the gut" kinda feeling.