Where the Avery Conspiracy Theory Falls Apart

[ZooSleuth]

You have to assume quite a lot more to believe Avery was framed than you do to believe he's involved in murdering TH.

I'll state just a few of the facts in bold and corresponding assumptions in italics.


He had a bonfire capable of burning TH. Bones were found in that same firepit.
The bones were planted there by someone.

His blood and her blood are in her Rav4.
Steven's blood was planted.

TH key found in his room.
Planted.

.22 bullet with TH's DNA linked to his gun type.
Planted.

According to Bryan Dassey, SA told him that he can kill someone and get away with it.
Steven was just joking and/or Bryan was coerced/lied.

Etc.

I agree with you up until your last point. I think it's just as much of an assumption that Brendan told the truth as it to say it's an assumption he lied.

 

[dexter75]

Thanks for the info =)
Before I read, is this magazine bias? One sided, or??
Trying to learn from past stuff & all.
Maybe I'll bookmark it, and take my chances when I'm a bit more rested!

Let me try this again with a title since a lot of people don't click a single link without a title.

How the Avery conspiracy theory falls apart....

http://mobile.onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/averyplotunravels.html

 

[Sleuther87]

I agree with you up until your last point. I think it's just as much of an assumption that Brendan told the truth as it to say it's an assumption he lied.

I'm guessing this means you haven't read the summary of Bryan Dassey's interview yet:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/409ewx/bryan_dassey_interview_02272006_exhibit_89/

There's some good stuff in there. Enjoy!

 

[dexter75]

That is very reasonable. If one wanted to clear all suspects and get to the truth.

Earl and Robert Fabian were driving around the property in a golf cart hunting rabbit with rifles while Teresa Halbach was at the property. Both knew of teresa halbach's impending visit.
There was a cadaver dog hit on that golf cart. Is that physical evidence that might require you to investigate earl a bit more ? or just an insane lead that needs no further explanation ?


One user suggested the idea that while shooting at something maybe they accidentally shot teresa. Which although I see the humor in, is about as possible as Dick Cheney factually shooting his hunting partner in the face.

just ask the questions. right ? it'll take an hour or two, then evaluate what you discover. To me, that's reasonable, not insane

 

[MaxManning]

Lol... I tormented my hubby with it last weekend. He takes issue with the condition of the fragment as well. If it was a lead bullet it could have the black appearance it has. The problem is, after hitting bone or concrete it would have mushroomed to the point no ballistic test could be done. If it were jacketed it could fragment like what was described but wouldn't have the black appearance as seen in the photo, unless it was charred or something.

Wow, another thing to investigate, as I have very little knowledge of guns. What does "jacketed" mean ?

Also, the black appearance is worth investigating and explaining.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I'm guessing this means you haven't read the summary of Bryan Dassey's interview yet:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/409ewx/bryan_dassey_interview_02272006_exhibit_89/

There's some good stuff in there. Enjoy!

I made the assumption (lol @ the irony) you meant Brendan. Thanks for the link, I will read it!

 

[missy1974]

Wow, another thing to investigate, as I have very little knowledge of guns. What does "jacketed" mean ?

Also, the black appearance is worth investigating and explaining.

A full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet is a small-arms projectile consisting of a soft core (often lead) encased in a shell of harder metal, such as gilding metal, cupronickel, or less commonly a steel alloy.

I love google ;-)

 

[SCHMAE]

Well those rivets belonged to Daisy Fuentes branded jeans and TH had Daisy Fuentes jeans that were not found in her residence. Her younger sister testified about those jeans and ID'd the rivets. The sister used to tease her about those particular jeans (also in testimony). Occam's Razor: The Daisy Fuentes rivets were from pants TH was wearing that day and their presence in the fire pit is another piece of evidence that indicates TH and at least something she wore was burned.

Whether BD really saw them or not who knows. They were indeed there among the charred remains and ashes in the fire pit.

Serious question. Why do the rivets from the jeans keep coming up ? If they determined the bones in fire belonged to Teresa, why are the jeans important at all ?
Were the bones in fire determined to be Teresa's by dna testing or not ? ( not to you necessarily Madeleine) Just the jeans talk baffles me because it's as if the bones
were not scientifically determined to be Teresa's so look at the rivets from jeans to know they are hers.

 

[eve314]

Serious question. Why do the rivets from the jeans keep coming up ? If they determined the bones in fire belonged to Teresa, why are the jeans important at all ?
Were the bones in fire determined to be Teresa's by dna testing or not ? ( not to you necessarily Madeleine) Just the jeans talk baffles me because it's as if the bones
were not scientifically determined to be Teresa's so look at the rivets from jeans to know they are hers.

Perhaps - and this is simply my reading of the stress on 'rivets' - it is one thing to scatter bones about, but a rivet is significantly smaller. Planting bones including rivets seemed implausible. I guess, you would have had to be terribly meticulous in the gathering and dumping process if she was burned elsewhere and by someone else - if that makes sense?

 

[missy1974]

Perhaps - and this is simply my reading of the stress on 'rivets' - it is one thing to scatter bones about, but a rivet is significantly smaller. Planting bones including rivets seemed implausible. I guess, you would have had to be terribly meticulous in the gathering and dumping process if she was burned elsewhere and by someone else - if that makes sense?

I don't think that is necessarily true.... if she was burned in a ... say barrel (or confined area and remains were "swept or shoveled" into a barrel or bucket or something).... and then remains were dumped, there would be no gathering, it would be burning and dumping. *just a hypothetical*

Last night it was discussed that if the rivets were there, and she was shot in the head with a 22, if it is true that a bullet would not pass through and would remain in her head, where was that bullet and why wasn't it found in the fire? It was a thought by another poster last night.

 

[SCHMAE]

Perhaps - and this is simply my reading of the stress on 'rivets' - it is one thing to scatter bones about, but a rivet is significantly smaller. Planting bones including rivets seemed implausible. I guess, you would have had to be terribly meticulous in the gathering and dumping process if she was burned elsewhere and by someone else - if that makes sense?

I get you . So your thinking it it's more about SA or another perp must have had his hands on her bones and her jeans as well vs. the theory I was thinking which was the jeans prove it is Teresa .

 

[Madeleine74]

Serious question. Why do the rivets from the jeans keep coming up ? If they determined the bones in fire belonged to Teresa, why are the jeans important at all ?
Were the bones in fire determined to be Teresa's by dna testing or not ? ( not to you necessarily Madeleine) Just the jeans talk baffles me because it's as if the bones
were not scientifically determined to be Teresa's so look at the rivets from jeans to know they are hers.

It's another piece of evidence and possibly a corroborating detail.

 

[MaxManning]

Perhaps - and this is simply my reading of the stress on 'rivets' - it is one thing to scatter bones about, but a rivet is significantly smaller. Planting bones including rivets seemed implausible. I guess, you would have had to be terribly meticulous in the gathering and dumping process if she was burned elsewhere and by someone else - if that makes sense?

I'll have to admit I had not thought about this aspect before either.

But, maybe it's because I assumed that maybe the clothes were burned in a barrel, and were not on teresa at the time. If you raped her, seems implausible that you would dress her again, so we shouldn't assume they were on her body.

So for those that believe that there was a planting of bones, someone doing that would be sure to include those rivets, I'd guess. Did the statement about what she was wearing those jeans come BEFORE the fire pit was discovered ? We know that this information came from the sister. So worth knowing when police knew of those rivets. If they didn't know about them until LATER in the investigation, then it's kind of convincing if there is no tampering.

But... if there is a missing person, you likely ask questions like what she was wearing.

Also, when were those rivets discovered ? at the scene ? or at the lab ? The date discovered is important and how sure we are that they were in the pit and not a barrel. If in the barrel and then reported as in the pit, there's a mighty big difference there.


Thanks for this though, because I get the meaning of them better now. It's more important than I had thought.

Definitely worth considering that if the bones were moved, someone might have needed to be alot more meticulous to be sure to get those rivets. Are all the rivets accounted for ? Since we know how many would be on the pants. If there are 22 and we see 6 -- that's important too. Just because you didn't find some of them, doesn't mean they aren't in the quarry or at the janda location ? or elsewhere.

All of the rivets is a bigger deal imo.

 

[MaxManning]

I don't think that is necessarily true.... if she was burned in a ... say barrel (or confined area and remains were "swept or shoveled" into a barrel or bucket or something).... and then remains were dumped, there would be no gathering, it would be burning and dumping. *just a hypothetical*

Last night it was discussed that if the rivets were there, and she was shot in the head with a 22, if it is true that a bullet would not pass through and would remain in her head, where was that bullet and why wasn't it found in the fire? It was a thought by another poster last night.

Yep, same logic has to be at least considered for the bullets and the rivets.

Especially since the bullets were found 5-6 months later.

 

[Tawny]

The bullet hangs me up too.

If it went through her head, to be found in the garage, how did it only have a teensy bit of DNA on it, not even enough for more then one test?

If it didn't go through her head, why wasn't it with the rest of her remains?

 

[MaxManning]

The bullet hangs me up too.

If it went through her head, to be found in the garage, how did it only have a teensy bit of DNA on it, not even enough for more then one test?

If it didn't go through her head, why wasn't it with the rest of her remains?

The contention could be that 10-12 shots were fired and maybe 1 of them nicked any part of halbach or even came in contact with blood on floor, and when bullet hit floor and fragmented. Meaning two OTHER bullets should have been in her skull, if that was the case.

But the narrative that I seem to think they are saying is that these two bullets are the ones that went into the skull. I mean, where are all those other bullets ? Is it not suspicious that we find only 2 bullets that match what the experts concluded. And we find them 6 months later ?

Just imagine if they had found those 2 bullets on day 1 of the search and then LATER it was determined that there were two gunshots to the head. Now it's a bit more convincing that the didn't know about the 2 bullet evidence at that point.

 

[MaxManning]

So to be clear, I think it's plausible for a bullet to miss and hit a pool of blood or a drop of blood even and then bullet fragments or whatever happens when it hits a cement floor and not a skull.

Would it in some way cause black discoloration on the bullet/fragment ?


Regardless, 10-12 shots from a distance seems crazy to me, when you can put a gun to her head and take two shots. But maybe that's the easiest way to replicate a bullet that matches a given scenario ?

worth considering. but far more convincing if the bullet is not found 6 months later.

 

[Sinsaint]

It's another piece of evidence and possibly a corroborating detail.

The lack of ten bullets places doubt on his confession.

 

[Soulmagent]

The melting temperature of lead is 621.5°F

The melting temperature of brass 1652 to 1724 °F,

The temperature to for cremation 1600–1800 °F

 

[Tawny]

I wonder if she was burned to remove soft tissue and then chopped up or crushed.