Which is strongest RDI evidence?

[UKGuy]

There was no luck involved (and I think you probably agree). The FACT is that he made a bee-line for that hidden cellar room immediately after Det Arndt foolishly suggested he "take another look around". She herself had said that she was rather surprised when he headed straight for the basement; she had expected him to look in JB's room to see if anything important was missing (other than JB). He knew exactly where to look. Even FW said he was surprised, not only that JR saw her when he had not, but that his exclamation that he had found her seemed to come before he actually looked in the room.

DeeDee249,
I wonder if he would have returned, if after flying off interstate, they then found JonBenet using cadaver dogs?

.

 

[DeDee]

Keep it simple, that's my moto. If you believe that there is overwhelming evidence that Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note (and I believe that there is), then you have to conclude that there was no intruder that night. Now, someone you invite into your home is not an intruder, so one might reasonably suggest that the murderer might have been an invited quest...except that both Patsy and John Ramsey state that there were only 4 known people in the house that night. One of those people is dead, and the other 3 people all shared the same last name...Ramsey. So whether you believe PDI, JDI, BDI or any combination of the 3 did it, you still have to conclude that a Ramsey did it.

That's the most basic conclusion. Narrowing it down to which Ramsey is another matter entirely. Of course, even then, it's certain that Patsy Ramsey, at the very least, knew that her daughter had been murdered...otherwise, why would she have written the ransom note at all? If John was in the dark, we'd have to assume Patsy tried to pass off the ransom note to him as the real deal, and that he bought that hook line and sinker. If Burke was in the dark, then we'd have to believe that that really isn't his voice we think we hear on the 911 tape, and that he had a perfectly innocent reason for pretending to be asleep that morning. If we are to believe that all 3 Ramsey's, at the very least, knew that Jonbenet was dead...well then, logic doesn't have to take so many grand leaps to cover all the bases.

"If Burke was in the dark, then we'd have to believe that that really isn't his voice we think we hear on the 911 tape,..."

On several occasions throughout the years, having listened to multiple recordings of the 911 call; with enhancements, noise reduction, and as much concentration as I could muster, BR's exact words are not there for me.

However, I tend to believe ST when he explained the isolation process the IT guys utilized in CA since Thomas flew to Aerospace for the express purpose of listening for Burke's voice on the recording.

I can agree that Burke was present during the 911 call but all that proves is that his parents lied when their story was that he slept through every bit of it, he never heard a thing so they had him whisked away so he could play.

From August 1998 article http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/21ramsey.html

"Those sources [close to the investigation] say enhancement of the tape reveals Burke's voice in the background, asking his parents "What did you find?" John Ramsey allegedly can be heard shouting to Burke, "We are not talking to you," and Patsy shouts "Oh my Jesus, oh my Jesus."

[snip]

Burke's Atlanta attorney, Jim Jenkins, declined to comment on when the boy, then 9, was awake on the morning after the crime. He said Burke was thoroughly interviewed by the district attorney's office earlier this summer and answered questions fully.

"He certainly is not a suspect, and even the Boulder police have assured me he is not a suspect," Jenkins said.

3. When the original leak [of the enhanced 911 call] appeared in 1998, the Boulder Daily Camera reported: "The general content of the transcript in the supermarket tabloid is accurate, according to sources familiar with the investigation." http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682511/The 911 Call#AerospaceCorporationAnalysis

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=686Ic9-yIwo"]New enhanced audio Patsy Ramsey 911 call - YouTube[/ame]



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wExW5ERzTag"]The Death of JonBenet Ramsey-She was the sparkplug of the family - YouTube[/ame]


The Little Sparkplug video extends a decent walk-through the interior of the R home with Diane Sawyer and the crew enhances with their bright lights. Friend and Attorney, Michael Bynum, acts as a guide. Notice the distance from JB's bedroom, down the spiral stairs, through the kitchen and down some 4 or 5steps to the basement level and then, after a right turn down the hall, that basement door on the right must be opened outward to gain entry.

The basement lights were turned on, and I believe at least some of them were required on the evening of the 26th, otherwise it was very dark in the hellhole. Would a flashlight provide sufficient lighting needed for seeing the white cord so the ligatures could be properly tied? Light was required to locate Patsy's artist paintbrush that was needed to form the garrote. The brush needed to be broken then attached to pieces of her child's hair and to the cord. And plenty more stuff needed to be completed, such as wrapping her baby's body papoose style in the white blanket with the Barbie gown nearby.

That is, unless some of the killing items were fashioned in advance.

LHP seemed to recall seeing such a similar cord as the strangulation cord wrapped around a box that was in the basement.


The ligatures and cord hold a gruesome story especially that tight cord around her neck. Was the 17" of cord wrapped twice around the neck and her gold necklace and pretty hair became tangled in it. How many people knew, at this point, that the autopsy would soon reveal the skull facture and sexual assault? At least one.


SMO

 

[DeDee]

DeeDee249,
I wonder if he would have returned, if after flying off interstate, they then found JonBenet using cadaver dogs?

.

Would a more experienced team of investigators have allowed JR to fly away into the sunset? Absolutely! And tailed his a$$ the entire time as the cadaver dogs were sniffing and alerting around his home.

There is an aviation law that prevents jets, even private jets, from legally traveling over a certain distance without a co-pilot. It is the reason JR was not the only established pilot for the planned flight to Charlevoix, as may be known. The plane's intended diversion to pick up JR's children at an airport in a nearby state lengthened the flight, thereby, making an additional pilot necessary.

Would JR's jet hold enough fuel to arrive in Atlanta from Boulder without stopping to refuel?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

For the purpose of this thread, we aren't required to advance theories about which Ramsey did it. We are simply asked to state (and comment on) which evidence we believe is the strongest evidence that points to the fact that a Ramsey did it. In my mind, there is ALOT of evidence that points to all 3 Ramsey's being involved in some way (to varying degrees)...but the central question here is which piece of evidence is the strongest piece of evidence in a RDI theory. For me, that's the ransom note. There's just no way to get beyond the evidence that Patsy Ramsey wrote that note, imo. It doesn't prove to me that Patsy murdered her daughter, but it absolutely proves to me that Patsy knew about the murder and attempted to cover it up. She wouldn't cover up for an intruder/kidnapper, and there was no one in that house that night who wasn't a Ramsey.

So, RDI is the only conclusion I can draw. WHICH Ramsey is a more difficult question to answer, of course.

 

[DeDee]

1. "Mr. Ramsey.
2. Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent
3. a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness
4. but not the country that it serves. At this time we have
5. your daughter in our posession. She is safe and unharmed and
6. if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to
7. the letter.

8. You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be
9. in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure
10. that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get
11. home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you
12. between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The
13. delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to
15. arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.

17. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate
18. execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains
19. for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter
20. do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
21. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I.,
22. etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you
23. talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she
24. dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.
25. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she
26. dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar
27. with Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99%
28. chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us. Follow
29. our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.
30. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the
31. authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only
32. fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't
33. underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours.
34. It is up to you now John!
35. Victory!
36. S.B.T.C"




6. "if you want her to see 1997..." JonBenet was buried on the last day of the year, December 30, 1996.

8. "You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account." Not from mine!

10. "bring an adequate size attaché..." Perhaps a reference to the blue Samsonite luggage that contained the book of nude drawings and blue duvet/sham.

11. "the money in a brown paper bag..." Perhaps a reference to the brown paper sack that the rope was in.

"I will call you [12.] between 8 and 10 am tomorrow..." The ambiguity is masterful. Would that be on Dec. 26 or 27th?

13. "I advise you to be rested..." This "I" person is getting a bit bossy.

15. "an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier..." The obvious about this shall not be stated again.

* In the last portion the RN warns that JonBenet will be beheaded, JonBenet will be executed, and she dies four times.

19. "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter..." The two gentlemen are John And Don P.

20. "I advise you not to provoke them." Don't ire DP or JR. Check.

28. "99% chance of killing your daughter..." If the good Southern common sense is not used.

32. "the fat cat(s)" not worth killing are JR and DP.

33. "good southern common sense of yours..." Refers directly to DP.

34. "It is up to you now John!" Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

35. "Victory!" Battle cry! V is for Victory in the Risen Christ.

36. "S. B. T. C" The now famous acronym we have oft lamented: the phonebook, Saved By The Cross, Subic Bay Training Center may perhaps run in the top three faves. The ambiguity of it obviously amused the author immensely.

More importantly, what did S. B. T. C mean to the author who held the Sharpie when writing the RN?

For the purpose of this thread, we aren't required to advance theories about which Ramsey did it. We are simply asked to state (and comment on) which evidence we believe is the strongest evidence that points to the fact that a Ramsey did it. In my mind, there is ALOT of evidence that points to all 3 Ramsey's being involved in some way (to varying degrees)...but the central question here is which piece of evidence is the strongest piece of evidence in a RDI theory. For me, that's the ransom note. There's just no way to get beyond the evidence that Patsy Ramsey wrote that note, imo. It doesn't prove to me that Patsy murdered her daughter, but it absolutely proves to me that Patsy knew about the murder and attempted to cover it up. She wouldn't cover up for an intruder/kidnapper, and there was no one in that house that night who wasn't a Ramsey.

So, RDI is the only conclusion I can draw. WHICH Ramsey is a more difficult question to answer, of course.

Patsy Ramsey could not be eliminated as the author of the chiding RN that dictated the lowly fiscal ransom and brutal death of her own daughter.

OMO

Credit: Numerical Transcript http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

 

[Tawny]

Hi DeDee! Thanks for the analysis of the note.

I've seen reference to the book of "nude drawings" a couple of times now, but I haven't seen that source. Do you happen to have it?

 

[DeDee]

http://youtu.be/WomIOTN9UiQ?t=5m9s


@ 05:10 the Rs cannot tell Larry King bc John cannot remember, what the first thing, or any thing, that they did was upon waking up on December 26 even though John admits he has been through this spiel 100 times.


OMO SMH

 

[DeDee]

Tawny,

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JAR's semen on the blanket in a suitcase in the basement


Clicking on the link included in post #56 (provided above) will take you to a page that contains the actual nude drawings of the one adult book Dr. Seuss wrote and sketched. Note it is not in nature. It's a story about Lady Godiva and the Peeping Tom, etc.

The Ramsey family lived in the same nasty barn as the book vividly depicts and JonBenet died, physically battered, emotionally mortified and sexually abused, in a crappy cellar hellhole.

OMO

 

[Tawny]

What is that screenshot from CourtTV of? List of evidence? I'm confused as to what I'm looking at in that post.

 

[midwest mama]

What is that screenshot from CourtTV of? List of evidence? I'm confused as to what I'm looking at in that post.

You might have to zoom up the page on your screen to read the copy of the material superimposed over the photos, but in the top lines, you will see the printed copy that refers to the "adult Dr. Suess" book.

That book is a rare collectible, and there are more than one version which came out in print. I came across it some time ago, by googling "lady godiva suess" and then clicking on the "images" reference.

The other "adult" Suess book, "Oh, The Places You'll Go!" was the last book Suess wrote, and is written to be appropriate for all ages, categorized as "children's literature". It has been known to be appropriate as a gift of encouragement for children of all ages as they enter a new phase of life, such as going into high school or college.

 

[Tawny]

Slightly off topic but are y'all aware that Dr Seuss wrote a lot of Dr Hook songs? Sylvia's Mother, Cover of the Rolling Stones, etc.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the significance of a book in a suitcase in a location known for storage is? My understanding, and from viewing photos of the basement, is that it was a mish-mash of items, so forgive me if I am having a hard time figuring out why this particular item is significant!

 

[UKGuy]

Slightly off topic but are y'all aware that Dr Seuss wrote a lot of Dr Hook songs? Sylvia's Mother, Cover of the Rolling Stones, etc.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the significance of a book in a suitcase in a location known for storage is? My understanding, and from viewing photos of the basement, is that it was a mish-mash of items, so forgive me if I am having a hard time figuring out why this particular item is significant!

Tawny,
Given JR's remarks, i.e. he accepts responsibility for the suitcase being in the basement. There was no requirement that it be so!

It could happily have resided in JAR's room, its relocation is questionable.


Its significance relates directly to JR's necessity to introduce it as an item of evidential concern!


.

 

[midwest mama]

Slightly off topic but are y'all aware that Dr Seuss wrote a lot of Dr Hook songs? Sylvia's Mother, Cover of the Rolling Stones, etc.

Anyway, I'm wondering what the significance of a book in a suitcase in a location known for storage is? My understanding, and from viewing photos of the basement, is that it was a mish-mash of items, so forgive me if I am having a hard time figuring out why this particular item is significant!

The book was taken into evidence along with the other items found in the suitcase.

BPD determined the significance of taking the book into evidence.

Interestingly, there were fiber evidence connections between the white shirt JB was wearing when found, and the duvet which was also found in the suitcase.

For some reason, the title of the Suess book has never been released to the public.

 

[Tawny]

I just realized it wasn't Dr Seuss that wrote the songs, it was Shel Silverstein.

I have been working way too late. I need a nap. LOL

 

[Linda7NJ]

The book was taken into evidence along with the other items found in the suitcase.



BPD determined the significance of taking the book into evidence.



Interestingly, there were fiber evidence connections between the white shirt JB was wearing when found, and the duvet which was also found in the suitcase.



For some reason, the title of the Suess book has never been released to the public.

And there was that pesky JAR semen too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bettybaby00]

Bringing my own post from BR thread....Linda so sorry to hear about the horrible experiences you had with.a foster child!

In a nutshell, all 3 Rs have direct ties to either JRBs body or the crime scene, along with a heck of a lot of circumstantial evidence and behaviors.

And CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence is evidence.

*no evidence of an intruder
*fingerprints on snack items in DR
*PRs fibers in the bindings
*they ain't stun gun marks
*BR was not asleep
*JR seemed to know where the body is
*the RN is so clearly not written by an intruder
*JRB was redressed
*the scene was obviously staged with aspects of undoing as well
*the tDNA isn't a smoking gun
*the pocket knife
*bedwetting/soiling issues for both kids
*the boot print
*The hidden medical records...for both kids
*all the Rs post murder behavior
*LYING, LYING, &&MORE LYING

^^^all coincidence? No, IMO it's a pattern.

All of these things are evidence, some of which could have been explored more fully, but the team shut it down, and AH allowed it.

I didn't even get into the more "controversial" evidence, which there is quite a bit of as well.

 

[pukasonqo2]

for me is the "war and peace" of ransom notes and PR's theatricals,JR organising to leave even before his child was found and both kids toileting issues which seems severe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[THE BUNK]

The inability to find a viable suspect is the strongest evidence for RDI.
The search for the intruder is becoming more like the search for a mythical person. For me to believe the IDI theory, I have to believe that such a person exists. The IDI crowd has not convinced me such an intruder can possibly exist.

 

[DeDee]

circa 1999

Feb. 16 - The former lead investigator on the JonBenét Ramsey case on Monday confirmed allegations that Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter enlisted the help of a tabloid reporter to discredit him.

Former Boulder police Commander John Eller, who now lives in Florida, said he knew that Hunter had encouraged Globe reporter Jeff Shapiro to dig up dirt on him.

<snip>

The alleged relationship between Hunter and Shapiro is detailed in a forthcoming book by Lawrence Schiller, "Perfect Town, Perfect Murder," due out Thursday.

Excerpts of the book, published this week by Newsweek, also reveal that John Ramsey tried to arrange to fly to Atlanta the afternoon that his daughter's body was found.

As JonBenét's body lay at the foot of the family's Christmas tree, her father was on the phone with his private pilot, making plans to fly away from Boulder before nightfall.

Moments later, Ramsey told Boulder police Detective Sgt. Larry Mason "that he, his wife, and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening," Newsweek quotes the book as saying.

"You can't leave," Mason told him. "We have to talk to you." The book also reportedly recounts a relationship that Shapiro says developed as he exchanged information with Hunter. For example, Shapiro researched garrotes at the Boulder Public Library and reported his findings to Hunter. A garrotelike device was around JonBenét's neck when she found Dec. 26, 1996, in the basement of her parents' Boulder home.

Hunter's attention turned to Eller after he became upset about a particular newspaper headline he suspected was based on information provided by Eller.

<snip>

Later, Hunter hands over to Shapiro a copy of Eller's resume and tells the reporter to look into an old sexual harassment allegation against Eller.

"When do you think that could come out?" Hunter is quoted as saying. "I hate that (expletive.)" In the book, Schiller says former Detective Steve Thomas and another investigator went out drinking with Shapiro. After a few beers, Shapiro reveals that Hunter is working with him.

What Shapiro didn't know was that the investigators were recording the conversation. The investigators took the tape to Koby, who then played it for Hunter, according to the book.

A Denver attorney said if the allegations against Hunter are true, it would be a serious breach of conduct.

"This is a bombshell allegation," said former Denver deputy district attorney Craig Silverman.


http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon0216.htm


Within 35 minutes of finding JonBenet's body in the basement of their house, John Ramsey was telephoning his private pilot to try to arrange to fly the family to Atlanta that night

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/03/21/reviews/990321.21scott.html


~1:30 PM John Calls Pilot. "Twenty minutes later after Arndt moves body, John is overheard placing a phone call to his pilot to ready the plane to head for Atlanta. Police instruct them not to leave town, so they stay at a friend's home in Boulder" (Crime Library timeline).

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682461/December 26

Although I could not immediately locate JRs interview where he explains this circumstance, it is my recollection that JR had been told by LEO that he must leave his home immediately and with no where to go but home to Atlanta, he attempted to arrange the flight for that very night. When he was told he could not leave town, he and his wife went to the Fernie's home. Attorneys were hired the following day for all three Rs and JRs son, daughter, SIL and exwife.

The law firm of Haddon Morgan & Foreman also represented President Clinton, from 1981 forward, as was revealed in the Whitewater investigation.

 

[bettybaby00]

circa 1999

Feb. 16 - The former lead investigator on the JonBenét Ramsey case on Monday confirmed allegations that Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter enlisted the help of a tabloid reporter to discredit him.

Former Boulder police Commander John Eller, who now lives in Florida, said he knew that Hunter had encouraged Globe reporter Jeff Shapiro to dig up dirt on him.

<snip>

The alleged relationship between Hunter and Shapiro is detailed in a forthcoming book by Lawrence Schiller, "Perfect Town, Perfect Murder," due out Thursday.

Excerpts of the book, published this week by Newsweek, also reveal that John Ramsey tried to arrange to fly to Atlanta the afternoon that his daughter's body was found.

As JonBenét's body lay at the foot of the family's Christmas tree, her father was on the phone with his private pilot, making plans to fly away from Boulder before nightfall.

Moments later, Ramsey told Boulder police Detective Sgt. Larry Mason "that he, his wife, and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening," Newsweek quotes the book as saying.

"You can't leave," Mason told him. "We have to talk to you." The book also reportedly recounts a relationship that Shapiro says developed as he exchanged information with Hunter. For example, Shapiro researched garrotes at the Boulder Public Library and reported his findings to Hunter. A garrotelike device was around JonBenét's neck when she found Dec. 26, 1996, in the basement of her parents' Boulder home.

Hunter's attention turned to Eller after he became upset about a particular newspaper headline he suspected was based on information provided by Eller.

<snip>

Later, Hunter hands over to Shapiro a copy of Eller's resume and tells the reporter to look into an old sexual harassment allegation against Eller.

"When do you think that could come out?" Hunter is quoted as saying. "I hate that (expletive.)" In the book, Schiller says former Detective Steve Thomas and another investigator went out drinking with Shapiro. After a few beers, Shapiro reveals that Hunter is working with him.

What Shapiro didn't know was that the investigators were recording the conversation. The investigators took the tape to Koby, who then played it for Hunter, according to the book.

A Denver attorney said if the allegations against Hunter are true, it would be a serious breach of conduct.

"This is a bombshell allegation," said former Denver deputy district attorney Craig Silverman.


http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon0216.htm


Within 35 minutes of finding JonBenet's body in the basement of their house, John Ramsey was telephoning his private pilot to try to arrange to fly the family to Atlanta that night

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/03/21/reviews/990321.21scott.html


~1:30 PM John Calls Pilot. "Twenty minutes later after Arndt moves body, John is overheard placing a phone call to his pilot to ready the plane to head for Atlanta. Police instruct them not to leave town, so they stay at a friend's home in Boulder" (Crime Library timeline).

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682461/December 26

Although I could not immediately locate JRs interview where he explains this circumstance, it is my recollection that JR had been told by LEO that he must leave his home immediately and with no where to go but home to Atlanta, he attempted to arrange the flight for that very night. When he was told he could not leave town, he and his wife went to the Fernie's home. Attorneys were hired the following day for all three Rs and JRs son, daughter, SIL and exwife.

Thanks for posting, I wasn't aware of the info about Shapiro and Hunter.

The BBM, are those your words?

From everything I've read JRs excuse for wanting to get out of Dodge was for an "important meeting."

And although I could see a family wanting to possibly go "home," to a place where they could be surrounded by family...I can't see parents of a murdered child seeking to do this before their daughter has even been removed from the house. Also, making those arrangements is something I could see a good friend doing. Not one of the parents almost immediately after the body was found.