Who do you believe? Dr. G or Dr. S?

[MissJames]

I didn't vote because I think both have shortcomings. They shouldn't have denied Dr S's help in which case they would've opened the skull and the residue would've been tested. Who knows maybe Xanny would've been caught right there.

Do Medical Examiner's typically have Defense experts participate in official autopsies? Ever? I'm not sure that's even ethical.

 

[joypath]

He also stated that toxicological examinations were negative for drugs.
How did he test for drugs if he didn't have a lab as he said when asked if he tested the dust in the skull?

:twocents: IMHO...He read the preliminary OME reports....heck by 12/24/2008, they might have been FINAL reports! :rocker:


Dr. Spitz's report DID NOT have any sample results from HIS post.

 

[crucibelle]

I agree with most of your assumptions. The past couple of days of testimony have me wondering about the car and lack of bugs and the lack of early colonizers on the dump site. I'm totally convince body was in the car for a couple of days. One theory I have heard is that she completely cleaned the car trunk several times but intentionally left napkins with decomp in the trash trying to blame the trash for the order. If she cleaned very very well maybe that would explain the lack of early colonizer bugs. Remember the car wash of Tony's jeep. Just wondering if this was another cover. Did she know she had a receipt or there might be a surveillance video ? I suppose we'll never never know the truth.

This is exactly what I believe, too -- that she cleaned the trunk. I think she used the wet-vac that was in the Anthony garage, to be more specific. I never thought about the possibility of her placing the napkins in the trash for the reason you stated, but it does sound plausible.

 

[RavenTrue]

Mr Ashton ripped Dr Spitz apart nothing the man said after that point mattered. I almost felt bad for the old gentlemen until I remember he wasnt there for the Caylee the victum he was there for the accused. He kept contradicting himself :twocents:

Has been an embarassment for some time. He gets PAID?

 

[RR473]

Folks, the concern shouldn't be how to defeat DT or to support SA, rather it should be finding the truth. This is not a football match.

A few mistakes by Dr S doesn't make him incompetent. State did a mistake by denying him access to autopsy. He does have a point in opening the skull and testing the residue inside as in another case the found traces of sleeping pills in that residue. Ok he talked about a non-existent protocol. So what? Now is anything else he says also incorrect?

DT has a goal to acquit KC of charges no matter what, tricks, lies, etc.
However does SA have a goal of getting KC convicted no matter what?

Those of you who hated Baez for holding the title of Mr Overruled should begin to hate JA for exactly same reason now.

 

[cyberborg]

I agree with this point you have made and it is one I find unbelievable the defense did not adopt.

This spilling you reference is called purge and occurs in every death, whether intentional or natural.

Importantly, although it looks like blood to a lay person, it actually is not. So this would likely freak someone like Casey out and she would want to stop it from occurring, thus the tape.

If so, what about the ears? IIRC the duct tape was over the hair on the sides and not under to block anything from the ears.

 

[wonders]

Hands down Dr G.
Dr S's discription of someone moving the hair around, oh boy what can you say to such a rediculious statement.

 

[Turnadot]

No tissue in skull but surely residue. Dr S even scraped some of the residue off the skull but since had no lab to test it left it at that. Testing the residue could have shown if Caylee was taking any medication.

Holy shoddy, Batman!

 

[dilbert]

I agree. But the second guessing in this case (Dr S) is saying that she was shoddy, when she was not. She visualized the skull in its entirety, collected the only contents which was some sandy dirt. What exactly is missing from this examination, that someone who was not there, did not document his own findings until almost 2 years later now says there was?
What did she miss by not opening the skull?
Nothing...

Assuming what Dr. Spitz stated on redirect is correct, that in cases where people who have been suffocated or strangled there can be a discolouration of the bone behind the mandible near the ears (due to blood hemorrhaging), then Dr. G. could have possibly found more conclusive evidence of suffocation by duct tape if she had opened the skull.

We'll never know now because even though Dr. Spitz said this wasn't the case in Caylee's skull, the bones have been cremated.

It's too bad Dr. G didn't open the skull. I still believe her testimony that it was a homicide, it's just a shame that potential evidence that could support that is now gone.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Folks, the concern shouldn't be how to defeat DT or to support SA, rather it should be finding the truth. This is not a football match.

A few mistakes by Dr G doesn't make him incompetent. State did a mistake by denying him access to autopsy. He does have a point in opening the skull and testing the residue inside as in another case the found traces of sleeping pills in that residue. Ok he talked about a non-existent protocol. So what? Now is anything else he says also incorrect?

DT has a goal to acquit KC of charges no matter what, tricks, lies, etc.
However does SA have a goal of getting KC convicted no matter what?

Those of you who hated Baez for holding the title of Mr Overruled should begin to hate JA for exactly same reason now.

Do you mean Dr S? in your first sentence?

Why would the State allow an outside ME to participate in an autopsy of an as yet unidentified child? The DT must have known it was Caylee right, as no positive identification had been done at that point.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Do Medical Examiner's typically have Defense experts participate in official autopsies? Ever? I'm not sure that's even ethical.

You highlight an excellent point.

Let us recall that the remains on Suburban Drive were found December 11, 2008....a Thursday.

Let us recall the Dr. G. was out of town and did not return until the next day to even begin her examination.

Let us recall that the jail video of KC's reaction to the remains is from December 11 2008.

Let us recall that a jail guard testified to KC's physical reaction to the news of a body indicates that KC KNEW it was Caylee.

Let's recall that Tim Huntington AND Dr. Spitz were contacted by the DT on December 11 2008.

Let's ask WHY would a medical examiner allow a third party to observe the Anthropological Examinationof a yet unidentified person.

Now......does ANYONE believe that the DT was not fully aware of the ID of that wee body BEFORE the DNA results returned?

Their (DT) over enthusiasm gave them away.

 

[TexanMom]

Hi! Finally coming out of "lurkdom" to post! I voted Dr. G. She isn't dumb, she knew the DT would be watching for any little slip up. I do not see the point of sawing Caylee's skull when it was obvious the there was no tissue, and the skull was not attached to the vertebrae. And why should she have invited Dr. Spitz to view the autopsy? Caylee had not been positively identified at that point. It could have been another child!

 

[Mare10]

Folks, the concern shouldn't be how to defeat DT or to support SA, rather it should be finding the truth. This is not a football match.

A few mistakes by Dr G doesn't make him incompetent. State did a mistake by denying him access to autopsy. He does have a point in opening the skull and testing the residue inside as in another case the found traces of sleeping pills in that residue. Ok he talked about a non-existent protocol. So what? Now is anything else he says also incorrect?

DT has a goal to acquit KC of charges no matter what, tricks, lies, etc.
However does SA have a goal of getting KC convicted no matter what?

Those of you who hated Baez for holding the title of Mr Overruled should begin to hate JA for exactly same reason now.

BBM
I agree that he felt good reason to open the skull as it is something he has always done and as stated he did find drug residue in a previous case. My question to him, is why cut open the skull if you are not intending on doing any lab work on anything he may find?

 

[ZsaZsa]

You highlight an excellent point.

Let us recall that the remains on Suburban Drive were found December 11, 2008....a Thursday.

Let us recall the Dr. G. was out of town and did not return until the next day to even begin her examination.

Let us recall that the jail video of KC's reaction to the remains is from December 11 2008.

Let us recall that a jail guard testified to KC's physical reaction to the news of a body indicates that KC KNEW it was Caylee.

Let's recall that Tim Huntington AND Dr. Spitz were contacted by the DT on December 11 2008.

Let's ask WHY would a medical examiner allow a third party to observe the Anthropological Examinationof a yet unidentified person.

Now......does ANYONE believe that the DT was not fully aware of the ID of that wee body BEFORE the DNA results returned?

Their (DT) over enthusiasm gave them away.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Turnadot]

Folks, the concern shouldn't be how to defeat DT or to support SA, rather it should be finding the truth. This is not a football match.

A few mistakes by Dr G doesn't make him incompetent. State did a mistake by denying him access to autopsy. He does have a point in opening the skull and testing the residue inside as in another case the found traces of sleeping pills in that residue.

DT has a goal to acquit KC of charges no matter what, tricks, lies, etc.
However does SA have a goal of getting KC convicted no matter what?

Those of you who hated Baez for holding the title of Mr Overruled should begin to hate JA for exactly same reason now.

The State didn't deny him access to Caylee's autopsy; judge Strickland did, because at the time of the autopsy, she was an unidentified child.

Excerpt; Baez asked the court to grant the defense team access to the current autopsy being conducted on child skeletal remains that were found yesterday, which are suspected of being Casey Anthony's missing two-year-old daughter, Caylee Anthony. In addition, Baez wanted permission to have his experts conduct a second autopsy. He also wanted access to the crime scene before it is released by the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

Upon hearing arguments from both sides, Strickland denied the defenses motion regarding the autopsies, citing the fact that a positive identification has yet to be made. Strickland said that the FBI needed to make the identification without interference from outside parties.


Citation: http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/12/casey-anthonys.html

 

[Kat]

I'm personally glad that Dr. S gave the testimony he did. Because he was well qualifed to offer another theory of what happened to Caylee and because of his qualifications the jury can surely trust what he has testified to...

I do think at the end of the day the evidence speaks for itself. The jurors can only come to the conclusion that Dr. G's MOD and testimony about the duct tape has to be accurate because it has been supported by other state witness testimony and not refuted or proven unverifiable within the context of all the defense's witnesses.

So to me this was a good day. We had a well known, respected defense witness that could not provide an alternate theory that was believable to the jury or that verifiably contradicted Dr. G's testimony.

I hope the defense continues to bring them on. Because the evidence will shout to those jurors. JMHO

 

[RR473]

So is he saying that in a murder enquiry he found some unidentified substance (residue of what ?) inside the child's skull and just "left it at that!'
He's calling Dr G shoddy?

Residue of brain. Well What could he do? Dr G had the luxury of using states funds to access the services of a lab not Dr S.

 

[joypath]

Folks, the concern shouldn't be how to defeat DT or to support SA, rather it should be finding the truth. This is not a football match.

A few mistakes by Dr G doesn't make him incompetent. State did a mistake by denying him access to autopsy. He does have a point in opening the skull and testing the residue inside as in another case the found traces of sleeping pills in that residue. Ok he talked about a non-existent protocol. So what? Now is anything else he says also incorrect?

DT has a goal to acquit KC of charges no matter what, tricks, lies, etc.
However does SA have a goal of getting KC convicted no matter what?

Those of you who hated Baez for holding the title of Mr Overruled should begin to hate JA for exactly same reason now.

:twocents: I totally DISAGREE with the BBM point, the OME has protocols regarding witnesses at posts, and more specifically....the remains HAD NOT been IDENTIFIED. The only folks who should be present at that post were those involved in the case.....discovering the identity of the victim and working the case to find the perp. NOW, obviously Dr. Spitz was NOT pleased with THAT protocol but WE learned about the OME policy from Jan UNDER OATH!
:innocent::rocker:

 

[dilbert]

You highlight an excellent point.

Let us recall that the remains on Suburban Drive were found December 11, 2008....a Thursday.

Let us recall the Dr. G. was out of town and did not return until the next day to even begin her examination.

Let us recall that the jail video of KC's reaction to the remains is from December 11 2008.

Let us recall that a jail guard testified to KC's physical reaction to the news of a body indicates that KC KNEW it was Caylee.

Let's recall that Tim Huntington AND Dr. Spitz were contacted by the DT on December 11 2008.

Let's ask WHY would a medical examiner allow a third party to observe the Anthropological Examinationof a yet unidentified person.

Now......does ANYONE believe that the DT was not fully aware of the ID of that wee body BEFORE the DNA results returned?

Their (DT) over enthusiasm gave them away.

I agree with you, however, it's not a huge stretch by any means to conclude that the remains were Caylee's considering she was the only child missing in the area at the time and the remains were found essentially around the corner from where she lived.

 

[nitasch]

I felt kind of bad for Dr. S this AM...My father in law is right around his age, in his carrer he was a genuine rocket scientist. He is still a very wise man due much respect, but his ability to comprehend and communicate is slipping rapidlly, and it saddens me to no end.

I try to take all emotion away when viewing this case, but I cannot help but feel compassion for a man who has accomplished so much in his life, and was demeaned by his testimony today.