Who do you think the Zodiac Killer actually is?

[bdsjr]

It has been a while since anybody posted about the gun used by him. There could be some real clues when
looking over the type of guns and brand of ammo used. In this part of the country a small town with One hundred people could have only 25 who have or had anything to do with guns. Of those probably 10 own or have had hunting guns, and
most of them will talk about their hunting trips openly with people they know.
So he must had a past with guns, and not just someone who was doing a prank.
But we still don,t know why he did the crimes.

This is obviously a very late response, since I am just now reading this but better late than never. Over the past couple of days, I have spent hours researching one particular firearm, a Sears, Roebuck, and Co. store brand J.C. Higgins, model 80, .22LR automatic pistol. The CA Bureau of Investigation ballistic reports of the ammunition and shells found at Lake Herman Road only matched what they had on file then for the J.C. Higgins Model 80. They stated that it did not mean it was exclusive to a model 80 but when checked against their previous tests on file, it only matched the model 80. They provided the specific findings of the barrel twists and all that other ballistic jazz. Solano County listed on their offense report that the weapon used was a J.C. Higgins Model 80 .22. Their Facebook post about cold case synopsis also mentions this specific pistol as the one used, that or a High Standard Duramatic 101, the same gun as the model 80. That's intriguing for two reasons: 1. the model 80 was only listed in their catalogs between the Fall/Winter of 1956 through the Fall/Winter of 1963. I have confirmed this with the Sears Catalogs digitally available on-line. Sears had a company policy of 21 years of age for handgun purchases (California law at that time was 18 minimum). If the killer bought the pistol brand new from Sears, his minimum age would have been 25 years of age on December 20th, 1968. Not groundbreaking info I know since witness accounts tend to confirm that. Secondly, I have researched the California statute in place regarding "The Dangerous Weapons Control Act" effective September 9th, 1953 and in place during the 1950's and 1960's (Previous to Federal Gun Control Act of 1968). The seller of that firearm, in this case if brand new, Sears Roebuck Co, was required to complete in triplicate, a full log of the transaction including the name, signature, address, occupation, and full physical description of the buyer. They were required to keep one for their records, send one to the Bureau of Identification and Investigation, and to the local municipal Chief of Police where the sale occurred, or if unincorporated to the County Sheriff or Clerk, sent on the date of the sale. Due to these requirements, Sears mandated buyers to come to their catalog departments in person to complete the sale. Whereas, in many other states, you could receive the handgun after sending in a little cut-out certification card, signed by a local "officer of the law." So, if, and that's a big if, the Zodiac killer purchased the Higgins Model 80 from Sears, or a used version from another vendor (like a pawn shop), his full identity was on a form required by the State of California and kept by three diffent entities. Wow! You'd think the cops would have checked it, maybe they did. Of course, he could have forged the form with fictitious info, which was only a misdemeanor crime then.

 

[bdsjr]

That really is interesting, reading about it now. And these weird calls to Peggy Trainer. Agreed, I mean that's very likely him. LE thought it was a hoax with the calls. Right, but I mean victim Leona lived right near Peggy Trainer. And if it had been some kind of prank... I can't picture the caller saying to Peggy-- not to hang up. That's not how a prankster thinks, that's how a murderer thinks, and it's a murderer's attitude, the "do as I say."

There are people that heard Zodiac's voice. I wish so, so badly I could get more information about like HOW his voice was distinctive because it clearly was. Sometimes I see it described as an "accent," once I saw a woman in an interview trying to describe it. She was trying to imitate Zodiac's pattern of speech, and at the end of the call, I guess he kind of trailed off in "upspeak" I'd love to know what Peggy Trainer noted (if anything) about the voice, other than the laughing.

I can in theory picture Zodiac (or some other bloodthirsty and simultanously raving and cunning SK) writing that letter but not because he was suicidal. Not saying he did, or that I think he did. But I could certainly picture him doing it if he found an opportunity He noted himself in a 1969 letter he wouldn't always be advertising his crimes.

You're right about the Peggy Trainor deal. Contrary to initial reporting, she did not live right next door but she lived not too far away, in a close by neighborhood is my memory. I think there is something else to consider and I don't think it really ever gets much traction. The Zodiac killer, IMHO, may have either known his victims, or he may have known about them somehow through other connections. In the case of the lover's lane type murders, each couple had some triangle stuff going on. In the case of Leona Roberts, a 16 year old girl living like a grown woman: no longer in high school, working a job, engaged to be married to a soldier in Vietnam, commuting over 25 miles to another boyfriend's house, she lived in two of the towns known to have confirmed Zodiac criminal activity: Vallejo as a child and then Napa as a teenager when she was kidnapped. Her fiance was from Vallejo and her boyfriend was a barber in Napa!

 

[bdsjr]

Or he didn’t take credit because he considered that crime imperfect and possibly leading back to him.

Bingo! If he didn't take credit, he knew there was something, however slight, that could lead police to him. That is my opinion.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

You're right about the Peggy Trainor deal. Contrary to initial reporting, she did not live right next door but she lived not too far away, in a close by neighborhood is my memory. I think there is something else to consider and I don't think it really ever gets much traction. The Zodiac killer, IMHO, may have either known his victims, or he may have known about them somehow through other connections. In the case of the lover's lane type murders, each couple had some triangle stuff going on. In the case of Leona Roberts, a 16 year old girl living like a grown woman: no longer in high school, working a job, engaged to be married to a soldier in Vietnam, commuting over 25 miles to another boyfriend's house, she lived in two of the towns known to have confirmed Zodiac criminal activity: Vallejo as a child and then Napa as a teenager when she was kidnapped. Her fiance was from Vallejo and her boyfriend was a barber in Napa!

Interesting! Are you saying Zodiac is a romantic of sorts? If some of these victims were two timing or being dishonest (I think that's what it sounds like?) did he take offense to that and feel they deserved to be punished?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong. I don't know all the details but read this thread and comment here and there as it's so interesting. Lots of knowledgeable sleuthers in here!

 

[bdsjr]

Interesting! Are you saying Zodiac is a romantic of sorts? If some of these victims were two timing or being dishonest (I think that's what it sounds like?) did he take offense to that and feel they deserved to be punished?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong. I don't know all the details but read this thread and comment here and there as it's so interesting. Lots of knowledgeable sleuthers in here!

Well, I don't think I would call him a "romantic" but I think there is a possibility (repeat: possibility) that he's some sort of lover's lane avenger. He might have been cheated on as a young man, maybe blaming another guy for stealing his sweetheart in high school or something. Something kind of interesting: He directly quoted Ko Ko the High Executioner from the Mikado in his letters (three separate times, including a very long one called the Little List letter). Ko Ko's job was to impose capital punishment on people who flirted with each other. He was doing a very poor job at that and was facing execution himself due to his ineptness. He survived by conning an unattractive, elderly, extremely powerful woman to marry him, thereby saving his own life. That's what the Titwillow song is about. The play uses marriage, capital punishment, flirting in a satirical way to attack the absurdity of aspects in British soceity.

Speaking of flirting:
Here are some facts about the victims: No judgment at all, just facts.
1. Betty Lou Jensen was being harassed by a jealous neighborhood teen from her high school, who she had gone "steady" with only on school grounds, for a couple of weeks (no dates). After she met David Faraday, the jealous boy had threatened to beat David up. He was said by others to be a loudmouth with very few friends. He called her repeatedly and was reportedly creeping around her yard.
2. Darlene Ferrin was a married woman with a small child, alone in a car with another man at midnight, while her husband worked, and babysitters watched her baby. The offense report indicated she had a lot of male friends.
3. Bryan Hartnell was cuddling with a former girlfiend, Cecelia Shepard at the Lake. He had a steady girlfriend back in Oregon and after he was recovered enough to give a full interview, he was worried about his girl finding out without him having a chance to speak with her first. Cecelia had been threatened by a jealous male student at Pacific Union the previous year, a current senior named Gary, over her relationship with Bryan. Bryan wasn't worried about him since Bryan was 6'7" tall and Gary was small statured.
4. Not a confirmed Zodiac murder but suspicious: Leona Robert's fiance Bernard was serving in Vietnam. While he was gone, she was spending a lot of time with their close friend Greg, a barber from Napa. Newspapers called him her boyfriend. Mom said just friends. A very reliable law enforcement source has indicated that Leona and Greg had crossed the line into the romantic realm.
Makes me wonder if the Zodiac killer was executing people for flirting, like Ko Ko was supposed to be doing in the Mikado.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Well, I don't think I would call him a "romantic" but I think there is a possibility (repeat: possibility) that he's some sort of lover's lane avenger. He might have been cheated on as a young man, maybe blaming another guy for stealing his sweetheart in high school or something. Something kind of interesting: He directly quoted Ko Ko the High Executioner from the Mikado in his letters (three separate times, including a very long one called the Little List letter). Ko Ko's job was to impose capital punishment on people who flirted with each other. He was doing a very poor job at that and was facing execution himself due to his ineptness. He survived by conning an unattractive, elderly, extremely powerful woman to marry him, thereby saving his own life. That's what the Titwillow song is about. The play uses marriage, capital punishment, flirting in a satirical way to attack the absurdity of aspects in British soceity.

Speaking of flirting:
Here are some facts about the victims: No judgment at all, just facts.
1. Betty Lou Jensen was being harassed by a jealous neighborhood teen from her high school, who she had gone "steady" with only on school grounds, for a couple of weeks (no dates). After she met David Faraday, the jealous boy had threatened to beat David up. He was said by others to be a loudmouth with very few friends. He called her repeatedly and was reportedly creeping around her yard.
2. Darlene Ferrin was a married woman with a small child, alone in a car with another man at midnight, while her husband worked, and babysitters watched her baby. The offense report indicated she had a lot of male friends.
3. Bryan Hartnell was cuddling with a former girlfiend, Cecelia Shepard at the Lake. He had a steady girlfriend back in Oregon and after he was recovered enough to give a full interview, he was worried about his girl finding out without him having a chance to speak with her first. Cecelia had been threatened by a jealous male student at Pacific Union the previous year, a current senior named Gary, over her relationship with Bryan. Bryan wasn't worried about him since Bryan was 6'7" tall and Gary was small statured.
4. Not a confirmed Zodiac murder but suspicious: Leona Robert's fiance Bernard was serving in Vietnam. While he was gone, she was spending a lot of time with their close friend Greg, a barber from Napa. Newspapers called him her boyfriend. Mom said just friends. A very reliable law enforcement source has indicated that Leona and Greg had crossed the line into the romantic realm.
Makes me wonder if the Zodiac killer was executing people for flirting, like Ko Ko was supposed to be doing in the Mikado.

Definitely interesting facts, thanks for summarizing!

And I guess 'romantic' isn't the best word I used. Maybe arrogantly intelletual or something is a better description, not sure.

With my very little knowledge (and I mean little, compared to the wealth of knowledge in this thread from others) of Zodiac... I guess for some reason I got this impression he considered himself sophisticated, maybe even saw himself as debonair.

But this side of him, the people he knew - didn't see it, almost like his alter ego. His secret side. In every day life he might've been seen as average but to himself with his secret he felt god-like, gradious and maybe oddly even morally superior and his victim's were below him.

Maybe it was all the letters and how perverse and almost amused he seemed that gives me that impression and some of the references I read about in them. No idea though, still like to hear all the ideas here on the thread.

 

[snooptroop88]

Well, I don't think I would call him a "romantic" but I think there is a possibility (repeat: possibility) that he's some sort of lover's lane avenger. He might have been cheated on as a young man, maybe blaming another guy for stealing his sweetheart in high school or something. Something kind of interesting: He directly quoted Ko Ko the High Executioner from the Mikado in his letters (three separate times, including a very long one called the Little List letter). Ko Ko's job was to impose capital punishment on people who flirted with each other. He was doing a very poor job at that and was facing execution himself due to his ineptness. He survived by conning an unattractive, elderly, extremely powerful woman to marry him, thereby saving his own life. That's what the Titwillow song is about. The play uses marriage, capital punishment, flirting in a satirical way to attack the absurdity of aspects in British soceity.

Speaking of flirting:
Here are some facts about the victims: No judgment at all, just facts.
1. Betty Lou Jensen was being harassed by a jealous neighborhood teen from her high school, who she had gone "steady" with only on school grounds, for a couple of weeks (no dates). After she met David Faraday, the jealous boy had threatened to beat David up. He was said by others to be a loudmouth with very few friends. He called her repeatedly and was reportedly creeping around her yard.
2. Darlene Ferrin was a married woman with a small child, alone in a car with another man at midnight, while her husband worked, and babysitters watched her baby. The offense report indicated she had a lot of male friends.
3. Bryan Hartnell was cuddling with a former girlfiend, Cecelia Shepard at the Lake. He had a steady girlfriend back in Oregon and after he was recovered enough to give a full interview, he was worried about his girl finding out without him having a chance to speak with her first. Cecelia had been threatened by a jealous male student at Pacific Union the previous year, a current senior named Gary, over her relationship with Bryan. Bryan wasn't worried about him since Bryan was 6'7" tall and Gary was small statured.
4. Not a confirmed Zodiac murder but suspicious: Leona Robert's fiance Bernard was serving in Vietnam. While he was gone, she was spending a lot of time with their close friend Greg, a barber from Napa. Newspapers called him her boyfriend. Mom said just friends. A very reliable law enforcement source has indicated that Leona and Greg had crossed the line into the romantic realm.
Makes me wonder if the Zodiac killer was executing people for flirting, like Ko Ko was supposed to be doing in the Mikado.

Definitely interesting facts, thanks for summarizing!

And I guess 'romantic' isn't the best word I used. Maybe arrogantly intelletual or something is a better description, not sure.

With my very little knowledge (and I mean little, compared to the wealth of knowledge in this thread from others) of Zodiac... I guess for some reason I got this impression he considered himself sophisticated, maybe even saw himself as debonair.

But this side of him, the people he knew - didn't see it, almost like his alter ego. His secret side. In every day life he might've been seen as average but to himself with his secret he felt god-like, gradious and maybe oddly even morally superior and his victim's were below him.

Maybe it was all the letters and how perverse and almost amused he seemed that gives me that impression and some of the references I read about in them. No idea though, still like to hear all the ideas here on the thread.

TOTALLY agree. Think Zodiac was perhaps a frustrated would-be casanova. This is why I'm pretty certain he murdered Cheri Bates. Those letters about Cheri Bates just seem so in line with someone who's playing Romance Avenger. They really do (jmo).