Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[THE BUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE BUNK View Post
Probably because most of those incidents were successfully covered up, they did not involve young beauty queens and they did not happen on 12/26.

This is scary, but think about it. If you successfully cover up a crime and every one believes it..it's not a story.
What do you mean by successfully covered up? That someone was arrested for murder, but the abuse was never found? Or that it was just seen as an accident, and the investigation never uncovered the abuse?

-Murders that were seen as accidents or natural death.
-Murders in which the parents were never viewed as suspects or the wrong suspect was arrested based on the cover up

 

[CherCher]

Yes, I agree it may be totally irrelevant, but I've just had trouble figuring out how the 'accident' occurred. And Patsy accidentally hitting JB that hard seems very farfetched to me. It would most likely go down as Pasty yelling something in surprise and John jumping away and trying to cover it up, not her charging them with an object while they were still in close proximity.

Also, while, fortunately, I don't know much about physical evidence of child molestation, there are so many discussions about the kids having continence issues and JB having other issues with infections and all that. Isn't it possible that what is seen as evidence of molestation could be related to cleaning, discomfort and 'curiosity'. Some kids have compulsive behavior with certain types of touching that gets them in trouble, that they usually grow out of. It's just something that sticks in my mind because the molestation stuff confuses me.

Although I believe RDI, I don't have a pet theory. It's the whole corpus delecti that compels me to believe that a RDI. I don't have to have a theory as to who what where when and how to believe that someone that lived in that house did it and the others are or were keeping their mouths shut.

If you look at the crime as a whole, and not break it up into little pieces that can be explained away, you will see what I mean.

 

[Tawny]

If you look at the crime as a whole, and not break it up into little pieces that can be explained away, you will see what I mean.

RSBM

YES. This is precisely the issue we keep running into. Breaking this crime up into individual jigsaw pieces will get you exactly nowhere. It is the crime, the staging, the location, the people involved, the investigation, etc etc etc, as a whole that points squarely at RDI, IMVHO.

 

[lawstudent]

Although I believe RDI, I don't have a pet theory. It's the whole corpus delecti that compels me to believe that a RDI. I don't have to have a theory as to who what where when and how to believe that someone that lived in that house did it and the others are or were keeping their mouths shut.

If you look at the crime as a whole, and not break it up into little pieces that can be explained away, you will see what I mean.

I agree with this, and I lean RDI due to the totality of the evidence. However, we also have to be clear about what is the 'totality'. A lot of small parts in this case could indicate multiple things IMO, or are picked and chosen, to come to a certain "whole." Certain facts and associated speculations become disproportionately significant because we have a lot of information relating to them while other things are unclear. There are a few big things that taken together point to an inside job IMO. But only a few I find particularly noteworthy - most of the issues in this case are not developed enough for me to really feel they point to something.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The thing is, how often do you hear about someone killing a family member to cover up years of sexual abuse? The small amount of victims who are killed are almost always killed by strangers who want to get rid of a witness or because it is part of their fantasy. Family member molestation seems to surprisingly rarely turn violent, given what's at stake. The molesters seem to believe they can keep it quiet through their manipulative relationship with the victim. And I still don't have a good theory as to how it could have been an accident. This case just baffles me.

Most family molesters don't work with the support and assistance of the mother of the victim.

It's pretty clear to me that BOTH parents were involved in this abuse.

We would like to say "oh it's just John" but any policeman will tell you, there ARE women out there who enjoy cruelty and torture, just as much as men.

They are incredibly rare but it's not IMPOSSIBLE Patsy was also molesting JB.

Incest is the game the whole family can play. If Burke was sexualised too, this would be where it all started, and why one child died. She didn't like what they were doing, kicked and screamed...she would have been exhausted Christmas night and NOT wishing to play the game I'm sure. Bless her.

 

[lawstudent]

Most family molesters don't work with the support and assistance of the mother of the victim.

It's pretty clear to me that BOTH parents were involved in this abuse.

We would like to say "oh it's just John" but any policeman will tell you, there ARE women out there who enjoy cruelty and torture, just as much as men.

They are incredibly rare but it's not IMPOSSIBLE Patsy was also molesting JB.

Incest is the game the whole family can play. If Burke was sexualised too, this would be where it all started, and why one child died. She didn't like what they were doing, kicked and screamed...she would have been exhausted Christmas night and NOT wishing to play the game I'm sure. Bless her.

Yes, I know there are definitely female predators out there. But I still think it's hard for me to see any of the Ramseys as child molesters or sadists. It is definitely possible, but not where my mind jumps. I think more would have come out if that were true.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

-Murders that were seen as accidents or natural death.
-Murders in which the parents were never viewed as suspects or the wrong suspect was arrested based on the cover up

I feel like all of those cases have to be extremely rare. They would all represent an extreme level of incompetence or amateurity by LE, DA, and medical stuff, or the parents would have to be very powerful to have all those people look the other way.

 

[pukasonqo2]

i think that JB's death was caused by an accident, the cover-up afterwards, well, that is another story

as i said before, i am not naive enough to think incest does not happen. well-off families have better chances of keeping it a secret than those who are, sort to say, under CPS' radar.

but how you get a child to keep quiet about abuse? making the child feel ashamed, different to other girls/boys, feeling "dirty" or "not pretty" can be ways of silencing the victim.

JB had a huge struggle ahead of her, most sexual abuse victims feel worthless and every pageant won reinforced the fact that she was an attractive and good little girl as long as she kept doing as she was told

i am surprised nothing was noticed by the teachers re: her toileting habits which would have been noticeable. if like they whitewashed everything re: JB

who the abuser was? i really have no idea. i think sometimes it was someone close to the family to have access to JB. i also think that the abuse and the murder are separate scenarios





lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

 

[DeeDee249]

Some abusers get kids to keep quiet by threatening to harm a beloved pet or other family member. Never underestimate a child's fear, especially a child as young as JB was. You can never just assume a child threatened in such a way-regardless of WHO made the threat- would not believe their abuser capable of following through on the threat.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Unfortunately if you ask any Child Welfare Officer or Police Officer who they think killed and molested JB, the answer will be "the parents".

We can't believe it, or struggle to,but those professions have no problem at all because they know first hand how common it is.

Disgustingly common, in all levels of society, even the rich white folk.

I'm just so over the staging, the overkill (which in itself says it is someone very close and very angry) the lies, the red herrings.

It's the same old simple story as every other child you hear about who is found dead and abused at home.

No stun guns either...not required...she was so tiny.

Ugh I feel sick.

Anyway opinion only, based on "if it walks like a duck" theory and the KISS theory.

Also, I'm on Madeleine McCanns thread and her parents seem to have done the same thing - committed a crime then lied about it. It happens every day with every criminal but the EVIDENCE is what undoes them.

The evidence is there with JB just as its there with Madeleine, all pointing one way only.

 

[Mama2JML]

Unfortunately if you ask any Child Welfare Officer or Police Officer who they think killed and molested JB, the answer will be "the parents".

We can't believe it, or struggle to,but those professions have no problem at all because they know first hand how common it is.

Disgustingly common, in all levels of society, even the rich white folk.

I'm just so over the staging, the overkill (which in itself says it is someone very close and very angry) the lies, the red herrings.

It's the same old simple story as every other child you hear about who is found dead and abused at home.

No stun guns either...not required...she was so tiny.

Ugh I feel sick.

Anyway opinion only, based on "if it walks like a duck" theory and the KISS theory.

Also, I'm on Madeleine McCanns thread and her parents seem to have done the same thing - committed a crime then lied about it. It happens every day with every criminal but the EVIDENCE is what undoes them.

The evidence is there with JB just as its there with Madeleine, all pointing one way only.

I understand your POV, in general, but there are many exceptions to the rule; Riley Fox, Elizabeth Smart, Jessica Lunsford...

I haven't studied the McCann case, but in this case there is a considerable lack of tangible, measurable evidence implicating any Ramsey in the assault & murder of JonBenét while other evidence suggests someone other than a Ramsey was @ the home, in the wine cellar, and he made contact with the child's underwear, her pants, her blanket, etc.

 

[BOESP]

The Grand Jury believed both parents likely were responsible for JonBenet's death even thought Lou Smit and other Ramsey advocates gave supporting testimony for an intruder. That tells me the scales of justice weighed toward enough evidence to take the parents to trial.

 

[Mama2JML]

The Grand Jury believed both parents likely were responsible for JonBenet's death even thought Lou Smit and other Ramsey advocates gave supporting testimony for an intruder. That tells me the scales of justice weighed toward enough evidence to take the parents to trial.

I don't agree with your assessment of the GJ, but I concur; establishing probable cause/"evidence to take the parents to trial" was a no-brainer.A speedy trial couldn't have hurt this case, IMO. Regardless of the outcome.

 

[chlban]

I feel like all of those cases have to be extremely rare. They would all represent an extreme level of incompetence or amateurity by LE, DA, and medical stuff, or the parents would have to be very powerful to have all those people look the other way.

Really? Google Mary Beth Tinning.

 

[THE BUNK]

I haven't studied the McCann case, but in this case there is a considerable lack of tangible, measurable evidence implicating any Ramsey in the assault & murder of JonBenét while other evidence suggests someone other than a Ramsey was @ the home, in the wine cellar, and he made contact with the child's underwear, her pants, her blanket, etc.

The difference between the McCann and Ramsey case is that the intruder theory makes sense in the McCann case. The intruder did a quick snatch and grab and never looked back.

The McCann's are suspects, but the intruder theory in their case is also viable. Hence there are two sets of suspects.

My problem with the McCann's is that I can't see how they did all this while entertaining Tapas guests. You would think at least one of them would not be willing to keep quiet.

 

[chlban]

The difference between the McCann and Ramsey case is that the intruder theory makes sense in the McCann case. The intruder did a quick snatch and grab and never looked back.

The McCann's are suspects, but the intruder theory in their case is also viable. Hence there are two sets of suspects.

My problem with the McCann's is that I can't see how they did all this while entertaining Tapas guests. You would think at least one of them would not be willing to keep quiet.

Or the McCann's learned from the Ramsey's mistakes. That body in the basement proved to be a real problem for the Ramsey "kidnap" story.

But, overall, I agree with you. I am 150% convinced RDI. I lean heavily toward the McCann's having done it, but there is at least a small doubt there.
I do not beleive the Tapas group was in on it though, although they probably have their doubts.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The difference between the McCann and Ramsey case is that the intruder theory makes sense in the McCann case. The intruder did a quick snatch and grab and never looked back.

The McCann's are suspects, but the intruder theory in their case is also viable. Hence there are two sets of suspects.

My problem with the McCann's is that I can't see how they did all this while entertaining Tapas guests. You would think at least one of them would not be willing to keep quiet.

They were drinking every night and doing the same stupid and careless thing...leaving their children every night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bettybaby00]

Really? Google Mary Beth Tinning.

Holy crap!!!!!!

 

[BBB167893]

Holy crap!!!!!!

Yeah, it's almost impossible to believe, isn't it?

 

[Frigga]

Wow! She killed all of those precious babies- give me a break. All of them! Probably because they were crying. She is where she should be- and should never be given parole.