Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[887sMtreme]

It looks thumb-shaped to me, with the thumb above the arm (the base of the thumb going deeper than the tip). This would be consistent with an adult grabbing her hard there, as in the Christmas photo that midwest mama cites. I have another photo of JB showing that same bruise, possibly taken on the same day or maybe as much as a couple of days later, since it appears to have resolved a bit. It would be interesting to know if the dates of these photos coincided with one of JB's many trips to the pediatrician's office.

 

[elannia]

Also, PR asked JR if JB had any bruising on her arms

 

[887sMtreme]

When was that, elannia?

 

[DeeDee249]

When was that, elannia?

When they were discussing her funeral. JB was to be laid out in one of her pageant dresses and it had short puffy sleeves. She had an open coffin.

 

[midwest mama]

It looks thumb-shaped to me, with the thumb above the arm (the base of the thumb going deeper than the tip). This would be consistent with an adult grabbing her hard there, as in the Christmas photo that midwest mama cites. I have another photo of JB showing that same bruise, possibly taken on the same day or maybe as much as a couple of days later, since it appears to have resolved a bit. It would be interesting to know if the dates of these photos coincided with one of JB's many trips to the pediatrician's office.

I Googled pageant photos of JB, and in addition to the video clip I posted earler and also the photo of her in the "Las Vegas" showgirl costume showing the same type of bruise, there is a photo of her in the black and white costume which also shows what looks like the same bruise. In all three of these photos, the background has a distinctive leaf print wallpapered looking wall, and the same type of balloons for additional background stage decor. They tie in to the Americas Royal Miss pageant that she was in and won during the summer of 1996. So it does appear that JB wore several types of costumes during the same pageant. Also, since this pageant was not held at the time of the purported after hours calls to Beufs office in December, we can't connect the bruise with those calls, but there is nothing to prove there were no connected visits to Beuf at about the same time the photos would have been taken. Unless someone knows where there might be a lists of the dates of office visits to Beuf during 1996?

 

[otg]

(rsbm)

Unless someone knows where there might be a lists of the dates of office visits to Beuf during 1996?

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?830-The-Doctor-is-IN!&p=11609#post11609

 

[887sMtreme]

So, she had a visit with Dr. Beuf in August 1996 that included a vaginal exam. Interestingly, Beuf's notes about that visit are three times or more longer than other entries but he doesn't mention a vaginal exam or any symptom that would have prompted one.

8/27/96: Patsy reports JBR's a good sleeper, wasn't hard to get to bed, and was easily awakened in the morning. Not interested in opposit sex, behaved modestly in public, and didn't engage in sex play with her friends. She was, however, asking about sex roles and reproduction. She was not rude or afraid of either parent. Didn't seem to be bossy with brother, didn't react with trantrums, and was active. Loved fruit and some vegetables. Patsy said she was delightful and doing very well. Burke had his annual checkup same day.

Why on earth would a mother or doctor note that a child that young "behaved modestly" in public or anywhere else and didn't engage in "sex play"?

 

[Annapurna]

You make a great point. Why would he note all this? It sounds like building an alibi, though I'm wondering if perhaps his notes were edited after the fact. I've always wondered about Dr. Beef,and it sounds more than ever like he was complicit in the coverup, for who knows what reason.

 

[andreww]

So, she had a visit with Dr. Beuf in August 1996 that included a vaginal exam. Interestingly, Beuf's notes about that visit are three times or more longer than other entries but he doesn't mention a vaginal exam or any symptom that would have prompted one.

8/27/96: Patsy reports JBR's a good sleeper, wasn't hard to get to bed, and was easily awakened in the morning. Not interested in opposit sex, behaved modestly in public, and didn't engage in sex play with her friends. She was, however, asking about sex roles and reproduction. She was not rude or afraid of either parent. Didn't seem to be bossy with brother, didn't react with trantrums, and was active. Loved fruit and some vegetables. Patsy said she was delightful and doing very well. Burke had his annual checkup same day.

Why on earth would a mother or doctor note that a child that young "behaved modestly" in public or anywhere else and didn't engage in "sex play"?

What sex play are her six year old friends participating in? That certainly is an odd notation, bordering on creepy.

 

[pukasonqo2]

So, she had a visit with Dr. Beuf in August 1996 that included a vaginal exam. Interestingly, Beuf's notes about that visit are three times or more longer than other entries but he doesn't mention a vaginal exam or any symptom that would have prompted one.

8/27/96: Patsy reports JBR's a good sleeper, wasn't hard to get to bed, and was easily awakened in the morning. Not interested in opposit sex, behaved modestly in public, and didn't engage in sex play with her friends. She was, however, asking about sex roles and reproduction. She was not rude or afraid of either parent. Didn't seem to be bossy with brother, didn't react with trantrums, and was active. Loved fruit and some vegetables. Patsy said she was delightful and doing very well. Burke had his annual checkup same day.

Why on earth would a mother or doctor note that a child that young "behaved modestly" in public or anywhere else and didn't engage in "sex play"?

which contradicts (my POV) the reports of JB asking for help to wipe herself after using the toilet
interesting wording, "behaved modestly" almost make me think of a XIX century description of a young woman
in all honestly, unless PR saw JB playing "doctor" she wouldn't know if she was exploring her sexuality, kids don't tell things like that to their parents even if the games are consensual, there is still that sense of guilt, shame around children being curious about their own (and others) sexuality
i am a RDI and i think that, unless PR was directly asked to answer questions about JB's sexuality, she does protest too much

 

[UKGuy]

You make a great point. Why would he note all this? It sounds like building an alibi, though I'm wondering if perhaps his notes were edited after the fact. I've always wondered about Dr. Beef,and it sounds more than ever like he was complicit in the coverup, for who knows what reason.

Annapurna,
ITA. After the fact corroboration. Well spotted by 887sMtreme.

 

[UKGuy]

which contradicts (my POV) the reports of JB asking for help to wipe herself after using the toilet
interesting wording, "behaved modestly" almost make me think of a XIX century description of a young woman
in all honestly, unless PR saw JB playing "doctor" she wouldn't know if she was exploring her sexuality, kids don't tell things like that to their parents even if the games are consensual, there is still that sense of guilt, shame around children being curious about their own (and others) sexuality
i am a RDI and i think that, unless PR was directly asked to answer questions about JB's sexuality, she does protest too much

pukasonqo2,
BBM: Well put, obviously an attempt to characterise JonBenet other than she was, despite requests to be wiped down or friends remarks regarding the Mega JonBenet thing, i.e. pageants etc.

unless PR saw JB playing "doctor" she wouldn't know if she was exploring her sexuality, kids don't tell things like that to their parents even if the games are consensual, there is still that sense of guilt, shame around children being curious about their own (and others) sexuality

Actually I begin to wonder if she knew all along, and given her own childhood experience assumed it was normal? Yet was aware for public consumption, ones private stuff should remain so, after all this is what mother and father said when we did pageants, i.e. pamela paugh, et al?

So yes I reckon you are on the money here!

.

 

[DeeDee249]

So, she had a visit with Dr. Beuf in August 1996 that included a vaginal exam. Interestingly, Beuf's notes about that visit are three times or more longer than other entries but he doesn't mention a vaginal exam or any symptom that would have prompted one.

8/27/96: Patsy reports JBR's a good sleeper, wasn't hard to get to bed, and was easily awakened in the morning. Not interested in opposit sex, behaved modestly in public, and didn't engage in sex play with her friends. She was, however, asking about sex roles and reproduction. She was not rude or afraid of either parent. Didn't seem to be bossy with brother, didn't react with trantrums, and was active. Loved fruit and some vegetables. Patsy said she was delightful and doing very well. Burke had his annual checkup same day.

Why on earth would a mother or doctor note that a child that young "behaved modestly" in public or anywhere else and didn't engage in "sex play"?

This is not quite what it sounds like. Dr Boef admitted he never gave JB an internal vaginal exam. He examined her only EXTERNALLY to observe any irritation in the outer vaginal area and vulva. He told Patsy to stop giving JB bubble baths. An internal vaginal exam requires the use of a speculum, in the case of a child, a pediatric speculum. This is done under anesthesia and usually done in a hospital or surgi-center setting. A speculum is not part of a regular pediatrician's equipment. He was not in a position to say whether there was sexual abuse because he never examined her in a way that it could be observed. Yet, he took it upon himself to say that he "saw no evidence" of abuse. He neglected to say that he never actually performed an internal exam. It is hoped that, had this case ever come to trial, he would have been forced to testify and would have been asked this question. However, given that it was the R defense team proxies (aka the DA's office) who would have been asking the questions, it isn't certain the questions that needed most to be asked actually would have been.

 

[DeeDee249]

What sex play are her six year old friends participating in? That certainly is an odd notation, bordering on creepy.

It actually isn't all that unusual for children that young to be curious and engage in sexual exploration. I do NOT mean sexual intercourse, though there have been some astonishing cases of young boys as young as 7 or so penetrating (with their penis) a little girl. Sexual exploration is not unusual between siblings, either; "playing doctor" is what is used to be called when young children engaged in this type of activity. Today it wouldn't be tolerated so easily and it would be referred to as sexual abuse. Patsy's housekeeper reported finding BR and JB "playing" under the covers of his bed. When she confronted them, the kids screamed at her to leave the room. I do not know what Patsy said about it, if anything.

 

[midwest mama]

So, she had a visit with Dr. Beuf in August 1996 that included a vaginal exam. Interestingly, Beuf's notes about that visit are three times or more longer than other entries but he doesn't mention a vaginal exam or any symptom that would have prompted one.

8/27/96: Patsy reports JBR's a good sleeper, wasn't hard to get to bed, and was easily awakened in the morning. Not interested in opposit sex, behaved modestly in public, and didn't engage in sex play with her friends. She was, however, asking about sex roles and reproduction. She was not rude or afraid of either parent. Didn't seem to be bossy with brother, didn't react with trantrums, and was active. Loved fruit and some vegetables. Patsy said she was delightful and doing very well. Burke had his annual checkup same day.

Why on earth would a mother or doctor note that a child that young "behaved modestly" in public or anywhere else and didn't engage in "sex play"?

BBM

Refer to post #40 on the page of this link: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?830-The-Doctor-is-IN!&p=11609#post11609
This is an interview of Beuf by Diane Sawyer

Snipped: " August 1996 --
another routine physical with a vaginal exam. The doctor said
everything checked out as normal. We asked what he made of this
number of complaints?
(From taped telephone conversation) Would that be unusual?
DR FRANCESCO BEUF
For a child that age, certainly not. They don't wipe themselves very
well after they urinate. And it's something which usually is curable
by having them take plain water baths or learning to wipe better.
But if you have four - year - old kids, you know how hard that is.
The amount of vaginitis which I saw on the child was totally
consistent with little girls her age."

Two different sources with remarks about JB's visit to Beuf in August 1996. Seems fishy to me that JB would be asking about "sex roles" and there was a vaginal examination diagnosed as "vaginitis". Also, the pageant photos showing the bruise on her arm were taken at the pageant she won in July 1996. Just weeks before JB had the August visit with Beuf.......:thinking:

 

[887sMtreme]

A doctor knows the difference between a vulva and a vagina. One is external, the other internal. I would expect the average person to get that wrong, but not a physician. Most women can remember the first time they went to a GYN for a vaginal exam. It normally takes place at some point after the onset of menstruation and not routinely even then, only if the young woman (girl, really, since she's likely to be only about 11 years old) has complained of pain or some other unusual symptom that has her mother worried. Even for a girl that age, such an exam is a big deal. For a six-year-old? I can't even. And I realize that once upon a time, doctors may not have known this, but the worst thing you can do for a vaginal infection or UTI is sit in a bath, even in plain water bath; this can drive the infection deeper. I just have always had a bad feeling about this doctor. And I'm sorry, but any doctors receiving 27-33 visits by this child and her mother to his office in three years is so alarming. Why? Because she didn't wipe herself properly? Has anyone ever tried to determine why this was the case, as it appears to have been, given the testimony of others who were called upon to "Wipe!" when this little girl went to the toilet?

 

[DeeDee249]

A doctor knows the difference between a vulva and a vagina. One is external, the other internal. I would expect the average person to get that wrong, but not a physician. Most women can remember the first time they went to a GYN for a vaginal exam. It normally takes place at some point after the onset of menstruation and not routinely even then, only if the young woman (girl, really, since she's likely to be only about 11 years old) has complained of pain or some other unusual symptom that has her mother worried. Even for a girl that age, such an exam is a big deal. For a six-year-old? I can't even. And I realize that once upon a time, doctors may not have known this, but the worst thing you can do for a vaginal infection or UTI is sit in a bath, even in plain water bath; this can drive the infection deeper. I just have always had a bad feeling about this doctor. And I'm sorry, but any doctors receiving 27-33 visits by this child and her mother to his office in three years is so alarming. Why? Because she didn't wipe herself properly? Has anyone ever tried to determine why this was the case, as it appears to have been, given the testimony of others who were called upon to "Wipe!" when this little girl went to the toilet?

I agree- but bottom line- the doctor did NOT perform an internal vaginal exam- only an external one. He said this himself. One thing I would have liked him to answer is how many times would you have to tell a mother not to give her child bubble baths before she listens to you? Wouldn't you read her the riot act if she didn't? That "irritation" (if he noted it) was NOT from a bubble bath. And he knew it. Something was going on in that family- he knew that too. Why refuse to cooperate with police? Why say that you'll burn the kids' medical records before you turn them over to police? Then- as now, they were all protecting BR. There had to be something incriminating in those records. The usual childhood ailments- colds, strep throats, ect, raise no red flags. Suspected (or known) sexual abuse by a family member certainly would.

 

[southernmimi]

I agree- but bottom line- the doctor did NOT perform an internal vaginal exam- only an external one. He said this himself. One thing I would have liked him to answer is how many times would you have to tell a mother not to give her child bubble baths before she listens to you? Wouldn't you read her the riot act if she didn't? That "irritation" (if he noted it) was NOT from a bubble bath. And he knew it. Something was going on in that family- he knew that too. Why refuse to cooperate with police? Why say that you'll burn the kids' medical records before you turn them over to police? Then- as now, they were all protecting BR. There had to be something incriminating in those records. The usual childhood ailments- colds, strep throats, ect, raise no red flags. Suspected (or known) sexual abuse by a family member certainly would.

I agree someone was being protected by a lot of people, but I'm not so sure it was BR.

 

[887sMtreme]

DeeDee, I hear you and agree totally. I guess I'm holding the doctor to too high a standard of nomenclature on the subject of the genital examinations he gave JB. The only important thing is that something untoward was going on with his little patient, and he did nothing (that we know of) to prevent its continuation, even escalation, other than recommending against bubble baths. Given that the injuries noted by the ME were largely internal, it is unsurprising that Dr. Beuf missed those signs; his exams were limited to the external genitalia because that was the site of the irritations complained of. Still, this guy rings all my danger bells.

 

[andreww]

Maybe a parent didn't pick up a flashlight. Maybe a sibling picked up the aluminum bat, found outside.

I'd love to have all the info on that bat. If you are to believe the neighbors story about the scream, then later the sound of scraping metal, the bat seems to make a lot o sense. Wonder if there were prints on it or if it was wiped?


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