Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[OliviaG1996]

YES, pulling out of the race bc of lack of wind is typical sailing jargon.

The fact that she didn't add "of the race" after "pulling out" screams intentional innuendo to me. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[DeeDee249]

The fact that she didn't add "of the race" after "pulling out" screams intentional innuendo to me. Just my opinion, of course.

I suppose you could infer an innuendo out of anything if you try hard enough. I just do not see it in her comments.

 

[icedtea4me]

BBM: I can't believe she wrote that. Either I have a dirty mind or Patsy didn't proofread. Is that normal sailing jargon?

I really want to buy Dr. Hodge's book. It sounds really good from the excerpts I've read.

I really like his analysis of Patsy's 1996 Christmas letter.

 

[BoldBear]

This doesn't add to the discussion, but I just became aware of the charges against Jared Fogle. I've always thought that peodophiles were outside of my own personal life. They're not. It's an odd coincidence but about the time I discovered that Jared was a peodophile, I learned that someone in my family committed this crime too. I have a strong sense of protection so finding out this fact has lead to a great deal of shame and anger. The idea that something like this happened more than 40 years ago doesn't take away any of that pain. I'm trying to deal with it because I just don't have a choice. For all I know, that family member may have passed away. Thank god, I'll never have to meet that person face to face ever again.

Jared was doing this for how many years? And his story was completely different, but his behavior passed undetected until now. I do, however, believe that JBR was such an outgoing little girl that molestation wouldn't have continued for a long period of time. She would have told so the molestation motive is valid. Like so many other arguments here, it seems to need just a little more evidence to really push it over the tipping point.

On a side note: I just noticed my own usage of 'that person' or 'that little girl'. It's specifically used to create distance from the person you're talking about. I can't help to remember Patsy saying something like it in a interview when talking about JBR. It's that red flag you look for to try to read someone's hidden meaning.

 

[CorallaroC]

This doesn't add to the discussion, but I just became aware of the charges against Jared Fogle. I've always thought that peodophiles were outside of my own personal life. They're not. It's an odd coincidence but about the time I discovered that Jared was a peodophile, I learned that someone in my family committed this crime too. I have a strong sense of protection so finding out this fact has lead to a great deal of shame and anger. The idea that something like this happened more than 40 years ago doesn't take away any of that pain. I'm trying to deal with it because I just don't have a choice. For all I know, that family member may have passed away. Thank god, I'll never have to meet that person face to face ever again.

Jared was doing this for how many years? And his story was completely different, but his behavior passed undetected until now. I do, however, believe that JBR was such an outgoing little girl that molestation wouldn't have continued for a long period of time. She would have told so the molestation motive is valid. Like so many other arguments here, it seems to need just a little more evidence to really push it over the tipping point.

On a side note: I just noticed my own usage of 'that person' or 'that little girl'. It's specifically used to create distance from the person you're talking about. I can't help to remember Patsy saying something like it in a interview when talking about JBR. It's that red flag you look for to try to read someone's hidden meaning.

bbm

nice post boldbear

to hone in on what you said (bbm) the distancing by both parents has always bothered me. As time goes on, and when I go back to listen to their previous interviews (what is left of them online after all these years) it becomes almost jarring/shocking to hear the parents refer to JBR as "that child". Even PR's sister in the interviews she gave, never some lovingly spoken "sweet Jon Benet". Glaring, when it comes from their family members.

As for us, of course we need to distance emotionally from this case just to be able to talk about it all these years later. And yet none of us knew JonBenet personally, never met her, never knew the family.

There's just such an emotional sink-hole because we've never heard JonBenet's family members say much about her in a loving-memory type of way. One sentence here and there from them was never enough. Most people sense the the void, even if they can't specifically explain the feeling the got then/and have now. JMO

 

[spooky24]

There's just such an emotional sink-hole because we've never heard JonBenet's family members say much about her in a loving-memory type of way. One sentence here and there from them was never enough. Most people sense the the void, even if they can't specifically explain the feeling the got then/and have now. JMO

What are you talking about?

How can you judge the amount of emotion that you feel is required?

I have got thousands of pages of 'loving-memory' from every single family member.

So, if people don't grieve the way you think they should then they are guilty.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

What are you talking about?

How can you judge the amount of emotion that you feel is required?

I have got thousands of pages of 'loving-memory' from every single family member.

So, if people don't grieve the way you think they should then they are guilty.

This is one of those things where no one would ever criticize innocent parents for how they are i interviews. Most interviews do not involve parents sobbing and falling to the ground. But if you think someone is guilty, you are going to be critical of everything they say.

I've seen so many interviews where all I can think is: if someone else had not been arrested for your child's murder, you would be eaten alive.

 

[BoldBear]

So, if people don't grieve the way you think they should then they are guilty.

My intent here is not to troll, but I've read that "if they don't grieve the way you think they should" argument many times. "Not everyone grieves the same way" and we all agree to that, but a killer can appear to be grieving only to deceive. A killer can also grieve while they are also lying about the crime. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Don't throw-out a suspect because...well, they just grieve differently and so we should look at someone else. That's no way to conduct an investigation. It's sloppy and you might miss something important by dismissing a grieving person's actions.

 

[DeDee]

BBM: I can't believe she wrote that. Either I have a dirty mind or Patsy didn't proofread. Is that normal sailing jargon?

I really want to buy Dr. Hodge's book. It sounds really good from the excerpts I've read.

Dr. Hodge's book is inexpensive yet highly informative. His agenda, though, was that it was all Patsy. I always thought it was Patsy until I uncovered some other evidence a few months ago.

Enough emphasis was not placed on the death of Elizabeth Ramsey and her fiance'. JMHO

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-49263.html

Dr. Hodge's book does have some material that I had not seen anywhere else before. He includes all of Patsy's Christmas letters, the ransom note and photos of the family and his analysis of all of the aforementioned.

 

[lawstudent]

bbm

nice post boldbear

to hone in on what you said (bbm) the distancing by both parents has always bothered me. As time goes on, and when I go back to listen to their previous interviews (what is left of them online after all these years) it becomes almost jarring/shocking to hear the parents refer to JBR as "that child". Even PR's sister in the interviews she gave, never some lovingly spoken "sweet Jon Benet". Glaring, when it comes from their family members.

As for us, of course we need to distance emotionally from this case just to be able to talk about it all these years later. And yet none of us knew JonBenet personally, never met her, never knew the family.

There's just such an emotional sink-hole because we've never heard JonBenet's family members say much about her in a loving-memory type of way. One sentence here and there from them was never enough. Most people sense the the void, even if they can't specifically explain the feeling the got then/and have now. JMO

If PR's sister and other family members display the same lack of emotion, though, doesn't that suggest it's not about guilt or evilness? That it is more likely to be the family dynamic? My family is definitely not the type to make especially sentimental statements, and it is striking that this is so on both sides and among a fairly large group of people. Not that we'd act exactly like the Ramseys, but no one ever refers to anyone as "that sweet Emma" or anything. I know that is normal for many people, but it would come across as silly in mine, and in a situation where someone else's child had died, almost rude. Over-the-top or something. Some families go the more withdrawn route and you know you are not supposed to talk about certain things. I definitely get the sense that the Ramseys were not the warmest, which is obvious, but that seems true across the family and friends they interacted with. It doesn't seem related to the murder or their feelings about JB. It's more of a cultural thing IMO. Not that I'm saying this means they are innocent - just that I don't see it as a red flag. I think that cold quality is inherent and they don't perceive it - and it lends itself to the air of secrecy that pervades this case. They may not actually be cold, but that attitude is something that stands out to people and allows for more speculation.

 

[webweaved]

Dr. Hodge's book is inexpensive yet highly informative. His agenda, though, was that it was all Patsy. I always thought it was Patsy until I uncovered some other evidence a few months ago.

Enough emphasis was not placed on the death of Elizabeth Ramsey and her fiance'. JMHO

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-49263.html

Dr. Hodge's book does have some material that I had not seen anywhere else before. He includes all of Patsy's Christmas letters, the ransom note and photos of the family and his analysis of all of the aforementioned.

Was Patsy SUPER SMART? John appears wise. What were her academics like? Was she top of her class? This is one MASTERMINDED plan they (might*in a opinion) came up with (if going on non-intruder theory) between the stagging, flashlights, the american girl doll box that made her think possibly of a coffin, the AG doll having string and JB is all stringed up, the purple christmas tree, dressed in white like an angel, child being cleaned up quite a bit, wrapped in a white blanket (shows great care) the Pride of Miss Jean Bodie style of enjoying pineapple and it being a good memory....the whole thing. It has PR written all over it. IMO. But I can't rule out BR or all three PR, BR, JR being involved in this child's demise. This has been a fascinating thread. Each of you has interesting theories and views on the evidence (that has been made public). Every time I think I have this figured out, someone introduces something else that gets me thinking! No love lost for PR. I thought maybe PR knew she would face an early death due to cancer and she couldn't bare to leave JB on this earth with people that would hurt her. Maybe she knew about the abuse and didn't know what to do? If she was going to completely turn her head to it, why would she continue to aggravate the Pediatrician with the ongoing symptoms of vaginal infections? Did she really honestly take the child to the dr or were those records padded LATER? JB had horrible bathroom issues. She had basically resorted backwards in potty training but I read that so did Burke. Both had filthy underwear strew around the house per the housekeeper. So maybe they were both abused?! IMO no way PR didn't know. IMO, she strikes me as a woman who gets what she wants and she would have known whats going on under her roof.

 

[observation]

I have recently read John Ramsey's book- "The other side of suffering." It's a great book albeit quite religious. This case continues to puzzle all of us. I was pretty young when JBR died but have been interested in this case- primarily since it's still not solved... I would have a really hard time believing JR could ever be capable of harming his own child. Just my HO.


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[morf13]

I think Det Lou Smit was dead on in his analysis, and that JB was molested/assaulted/killed by an intruder. Was the intruder a Stranger? Maybe maybe not. Maybe somebody that knew the house layout, etc and would be comfortable enough to move around in the dark. Maybe somebody that was a Family friend, etc

As far as the stranger angle, I assume that the local sex offenders have been looked into? I just looked up sex offenders within 1 mile of the Ramsey house, and was surprised to see quite a few,which was surprising for such a upscale area. I don't know how many sex offenders were in the area at the time of her murder, or if they even kept that list back then, but I hope that this has been looked into

 

[morf13]

Also, I am curious, for anybody who thinks JBR was not killed by an intruder, how do you explain both DNA on JBR's panties,as well as under her fingernails, not matching any Family members?

 

[andreww]

Also, I am curious, for anybody who thinks JBR was not killed by an intruder, how do you explain both DNA on JBR's panties,as well as under her fingernails, not matching any Family members?

The cells under her nails were degraded and were probably there for days or weeks. The fact that those samples didn't match the samples from the panties tells you that one at least one sample or possibly both samples have nothing to do with the crime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[UKGuy]

Also, I am curious, for anybody who thinks JBR was not killed by an intruder, how do you explain both DNA on JBR's panties,as well as under her fingernails, not matching any Family members?

morf13,
There will have been multiple touch-dna samples found on JonBenet's person. Why would you want only those under her fingernails or that on her underwear to be explained?

This is not a dna case, there is no semen, blood, saliva, etc present. Its a staged homicide by the parents backed up by the authorities, why?

I used to think it was corruption, now I reckon it was legal necessity and conspiracy to hide the killer from public view.

There is no other theory that best explains all the facts, all the others have holes in them.

Oh, and as for the intruder, there is no forensic evidence anywhere in the house that links to anyone outside of the Ramsey household.

Nearly all the items in the wine-cellar can be directly linked to the residents that fateful night!

.

 

[morf13]

morf13,
There will have been multiple touch-dna samples found on JonBenet's person. Why would you want only those under her fingernails or that on her underwear to be explained?

This is not a dna case, there is no semen, blood, saliva, etc present. Its a staged homicide by the parents backed up by the authorities, why?

I used to think it was corruption, now I reckon it was legal necessity and conspiracy to hide the killer from public view.

There is no other theory that best explains all the facts, all the others have holes in them.

Oh, and as for the intruder, there is no forensic evidence anywhere in the house that links to anyone outside of the Ramsey household.

Nearly all the items in the wine-cellar can be directly linked to the residents that fateful night!

.

We will have to agree to disagree, there is plenty of clues that prove that a person other than the Ramseys could be responsible. Watch this video completely, and it proves there was a chance-

[video=youtube;Vgg4N9D7MeQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgg4N9D7MeQ[/video]

 

[morf13]

An unexplained boot print was found on basement floor. That boot print matched a boot worn by a suspect that killed himself the day the police held a press conference in February 1997, when police announced they were closing in on the suspect
(see this video)
[video=youtube;2zeyqmxsFv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zeyqmxsFv0[/video]

 

[morf13]

The marks on JBR's neck clearly lined up with a stungun mark. She was likely subdued with one. The tests revealed that it was likely a stungun discharge. No stungun was found in the home.

 

[morf13]

Case is not helped by the fact in the days before the murder, the Ramseys opened up their home to the public for a Christmas open house, dozens of strangers may have come in. Potential thieves casing the home, as well as pedophiles, etc, who knows who came into that house.